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On October 20 2015 13:35 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 13:34 evilfatsh1t wrote:
kespa isnt the court. they are asking for cooperation from streaming sites and probably blizzard too. if they dont get their way then its the end of that, but i feel kespa is well within their rights to ask as they are not just the governing body of esports but in a way they are also the players/teams' union.
besides, there has never been precedence with cases like this, so if kespa can argue that match fixers do far too much damage to the industry that they should not be allowed to touch the game again, i think they might have their way what they requested bans for savior on afreeca forever, match fixing isnt new to sc2 you know
i meant there is no law that allows or disallows kespa to do this. if kespa seriously pursued this i could see a court ruling in kespa's favour given how huge esports is in korea and kespas influence
On October 20 2015 13:38 Probemicro wrote:Show nested quote +
if a massive site like afreeca cant allow match fixers to stream, what makes you think some random smaller site would survive? rofl
and who would actually go to watch the random smaller site? afreeca basically monopolises korean streaming
if savior starts streaming in China, he will be given truckloads of attention and money i can assure you...they dont give about a fuck about kespa or whatever in general. you are the foolish one here
lol wtf? saviors not gonna move to china rofl
if kespa actually gets legal backing for this savior wont be able to stream from anywhere in korea period. i dont know how good his chinese but im willing to bet hes not gonna just leave korea to a country which he knows jackshit about and knows no one just so he can stream a game hes not even good at anymore.
and lets say hypothetically that savior does go to china to stream despite everything. how many other small time progamers do you think could do the same? not everyone has a fanbase as big as saviors. at the very least kespa manages to shut down 99% of streaming for all match fixers.
i dont think youre in any position to be calling someone foolish lol
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Japan11285 Posts
Do we even know if he still streams? Harem pointed out he shut down his Afreeca account (last seen streaming August)
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51320 Posts
I believe he is now studying in some remote city in Korea.
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On October 20 2015 13:43 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol wtf? saviors not gonna move to china rofl
if kespa actually gets legal backing for this savior wont be able to stream from anywhere in korea period. i dont know how good his chinese but im willing to bet hes not gonna just leave korea to a country which he knows jackshit about and knows no one just so he can stream a game hes not even good at anymore.
and lets say hypothetically that savior does go to china to stream despite everything. how many other small time progamers do you think could do the same? not everyone has a fanbase as big as saviors. at the very least kespa manages to shut down 99% of streaming for all match fixers.
i dont think youre in any position to be calling someone foolish lol
i call you foolish because savior's fanbase, China or even afreeca dont give a fuck what you think.
savior has been PERSONALLY invited to a BW tournament in china not very long ago, kespa protest but they just laugh knowing they have no authority to tell them what to do in china. tbh savior doesn't really care much about streaming or BW in general, its just a way to interact and receive donations from his fanbase. his BW is not in the level of any pros but more than good enough to beat any random korean amateur and beat 99% of current foreigners playing.
savior has been streaming in afreeca for quite a few years since the 2010 incident...afreeca letting him stream shows they have no obligation to listen to kespa and there is no legal backing to stop him streaming, simply because its not illegal.
his rabid fanbase will support him with donations no matter what he does
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On October 20 2015 14:07 Probemicro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 13:43 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol wtf? saviors not gonna move to china rofl
if kespa actually gets legal backing for this savior wont be able to stream from anywhere in korea period. i dont know how good his chinese but im willing to bet hes not gonna just leave korea to a country which he knows jackshit about and knows no one just so he can stream a game hes not even good at anymore.
and lets say hypothetically that savior does go to china to stream despite everything. how many other small time progamers do you think could do the same? not everyone has a fanbase as big as saviors. at the very least kespa manages to shut down 99% of streaming for all match fixers.
i dont think youre in any position to be calling someone foolish lol i call you foolish because savior's fanbase, China or even afreeca dont give a fuck what you think. savior has been PERSONALLY invited to a BW tournament in china not very long ago, kespa protest but they just laugh knowing they have no authority to tell them what to do in china. tbh savior doesn't really care much about streaming or BW in general, its just a way to interact and receive donations from his fanbase. his BW is not in the level of any pros but more than good enough to beat any random korean amateur and beat 99% of current foreigners playing. savior has been streaming in afreeca for quite a few years since the 2010 incident...afreeca letting him stream shows they have no obligation to listen to kespa and there is no legal backing to stop him streaming, simply because its not illegal. his rabid fanbase will support him with donations no matter what he does
lol i was right about you not being in any position to call someone foolish
since when did this all become about savior? i dont know why youre being so defensive of him for no reason. its extremely amusing to see that you have completely missed the point though. kespa isnt doing this to get back at savior rofl
again, savior can stream all he wants, but he wont be doing it in korea if kespa get their way (which i believe could happen if kespa manages to get blizzard's backing). more to the point, no other match fixer will make money off gaming anymore, which is far more important than a single individual.
stop kissing saviors ass and get in line with what the thread is actually about.
savior hasnt streamed for ages btw, on afreeca at least.
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On October 20 2015 13:11 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 12:50 Circumstance wrote:On October 20 2015 12:40 c3rberUs wrote:
sAviOr hasn't streamed since August and pls no, don't ban HwaSin. Streaming is not professional gaming. It's playing a game at set times for money. In Hearthstone, Kripparian might not be a competitive player, but that game is his profession. When you undermine the integrity of the game in any form, that game cannot be your livelihood. Twitch, Afreeca, et al. are being given a request by Kespa. They, as private organizations, are well within their right to decline, as I understand it (if it's a mandate, they can dispute it if they want). I find nothing unreasonable going on here. I can't imagine anyone would try to enforce ban on Lance Armstrong for making a show about cycling online or on TV if it wasn't part of UCI. Sure, they would protest but I would not see ban incoming. This is going too far imho.
This seems like a poor point when Lance Armstrong was basically forced to resign from his role in the Livestrong organization and Nike also discontinued their partnership with them at least in part due to the doping scandal.
Did Lance's doping have any effect on the fact that he recovered from cancer? No.
Usually, when you do something incredibly damaging to a community, the blow back echoes through all related industries.
Afreeca as well as all other streaming platforms have a vested interest in deterring match fixing in e-sports because it hurts a brand, community, and industry that they directly benefit off of. The scandal hurts the public perception of gaming and that impacts Afreeca as well. It also hurts other pro-gamers that stream on the same platform.
So while this is a bit harsh and probably extends beyond Kespa's responsibilities, I find it completely reasonable. Afreeca should've taken this initiative themselves. Afreeca wants e-sports to prosper and remain popular. They're in the same boat as Kespa.
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Dunno why people are getting mad at KeSPA, they're allowed to ask for this. Up to Afreeca and Blizz (If KeSPA brings them into this) if it'll happen or not.
Personally I don't have a problem with it.
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KeSPA can ask, but I sure hope Afreeca doesn't comply. For most of the Prime (especially YoDa) I can't help but feel bad because they were either blackmailed or forced by the coach.
Still shitty to even get involved to begin with, but when you're essentially stuck with it there is nothing you can do.
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@evilf@tshit
because...him and hwasin are the only prominent former matchfixers to stream heavily on afreeca before? gogo hardly streams, if ever,
those few people in the sc2 incident do not stream on afreeca either.
honestly its the same deal for hwasin...and unlike savior, other pros have included hwasin in their balloon activities, hwasin has even been invited to a few official afreeca events before...
it just shows kespa no authority to stop them from streaming, their request simply a knee jerk reaction for PR. only society will affect them however they want
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I don't really agree with this, especially if the streamers are making money from donations... It's viewer's choice if they want to support a matchfixer. And what if they just want to stream a different game (however unlikely that may be). I hope Afreeca will not comply.
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On October 20 2015 12:15 Waxangel wrote:
It's totally enforceable if they get Blizzard to tell Afreeca to kill those streams.
You remember that time like six years ago, when KeSPA tried to argue that broadcast rights belonged to anyone BUT the developer of the game? Remember how that shit ended?
Yep :/ I'm all for it. Need to have something enforceable anywhere to try and make people think twice before doing it.
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Kespa is a special kind of stupid if they think this is a good idea. That, or maybe their from North Korea.
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On October 20 2015 14:33 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 12:15 Waxangel wrote:
It's totally enforceable if they get Blizzard to tell Afreeca to kill those streams.
You remember that time like six years ago, when KeSPA tried to argue that broadcast rights belonged to anyone BUT the developer of the game? Remember how that shit ended? Yep :/ I'm all for it. Need to have something enforceable anywhere to try and make people think twice before doing it.
So they are forcing young kids to stay in a house whole day playing video games for more than 12 hours in many cases without salary and no promise of getting any reward,they wasted their young there,no studies ,then they turn 22 and see how they have nothing to construct their life and loss one game can gave them 3k.usd.i dont support it but i kind of understand their situation.and it is kespa fault at the end.
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On October 20 2015 14:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 14:33 StarStruck wrote:On October 20 2015 12:15 Waxangel wrote:
It's totally enforceable if they get Blizzard to tell Afreeca to kill those streams.
You remember that time like six years ago, when KeSPA tried to argue that broadcast rights belonged to anyone BUT the developer of the game? Remember how that shit ended? Yep :/ I'm all for it. Need to have something enforceable anywhere to try and make people think twice before doing it. So they are forcing young kids to stay in a house whole day playing video games for more than 12 hours in many cases without salary and no promise of getting any reward,they wasted their young there,no studies ,then they turn 22 and see how they have nothing to construct their life and loss one game can gave them 3k.usd.i dont support it but i kind of understand their situation.and it is kespa fault at the end.
what the fuck?
progaming isnt some slave industry so not sure wtf youre talking about. how you could even think to justify match-fixers' actions by saying they were 'forced' to be a progamer just boggles my mind.
progamers are progamers because THEY CHOOSE TO BE. if they fail at it then its their own damn fault; they sucked. kespa has done more than any other organisation on the planet for the sustainability of esports. this includes the care and management of players especially those linked to teams under the kespa organisation.
if some guys who chose this path realise later on that theyre too shit to win anything so they take the losers' route and match fix in order to get some quick money, then they deserve everything they get. some people are actually still practicing their asses off to get to a level where they can still win something and the match fixing shit just shoots all those possibilities down.
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Typical Kespa. I hope Afreeca does their own thing and not listen to Kespa.
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Kespa needs some more convincing arguments than that.
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I'm split on this, I'm all for stronger deterrant for matchfixing and also think that those that do doesn't deserve to earn money on the game again but I also don't think its fair if they go and mess with old BW matchfixers.
If they do this I would prefer if it would be matchfixers in sc2 they went after and not bw, it would accomplish the same thing without annoying/aggrevating an already small bw scene.
I feel people generally have a right to do and stream whatever they want(none offensive) but in a case were their actions have significantly hurt the scene like this I can also understand that maybe that right can be taken away.
But in the end it will probably be up to Blizz.
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On October 20 2015 11:43 Jjjinyong wrote:
been a long time coming. They can do whatever they want but they shouldn't stream starcraft. This isn't their playground. They can't matchfix and ruin a whole scene and come back trying to make money off of it. Just how gullible do they think the community is?
Worked with Savior
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On October 20 2015 11:33 GTR wrote:
Seems like they want to get rid of players such as Hwasin and recently go.go who've propped up on Afreeca recently.
To be honest I think this is pretty unfair of a demand - Afreeca have no relationship with KeSPA whatsoever and it infringes on their rights as people.
My, my but aren't you the lawyer... Do you even know what the legislation in Korea is like?
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EPT
