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Starbow - Page 262

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-11 21:55:41
March 11 2014 21:48 GMT
#5221
Big Patch

Bug fixes:
>>>+ Show Spoiler +
- Changelings in ZvZ should no longer display wings on the model or move faster on creep.
- Scouts gain the proper damage from upgrades (Earlier they got too small bonus.)
- Banelings gain the proper damage from upgrades (Earlier they got twice as much as intended)
- Disruption web should now prevent Queens from attacking.
- Tunnling claw upgrade should now display a proper icon.
- Viper's Den hotkey should now be editable.
- Nerve Jammer should display its proper color.
- Scarabs should no longer occasionally deal twice damage.

Special bug fix: Stalkers did 8 base dmg, +50% extra vs light and + 50% extra vs shield. All attacks in Starbow deal full dmg vs all shields. But a bug caused the Stalker to actually deal 18 dmg vs Zealots shield. I did not have time to solve the bug properly, so a temporary solution got added: Stalkers deal no extra damage vs shields at all. Just 8 dmg vs medium and armored units shield, then 12 dmg vs light units shield.
<<<

Balance:
>>>+ Show Spoiler +
Protoss

- Reaver attack range increased from 8 to 9.
- Reaver attack delay when unloading from a Warp Prism is reduced from 1.5 to 1.25 seconds.
- Reaver 100% splash area increased from 0.75 to 1. (50% dmg remains at area 1.75)
- Stasis Field cast range increased from 7 to 9. (Same as BW)
- Stasis Field affects 10 units instead of 8.
- Arbiter no longer has a delay while using Recall.
- Zealot movement speed increased from 2.09 to 2.25.

Zerg


- Energy cost for Enrage increased from 25 to 35.
- Queen no longer has a cooldown when planting Creep Tumors.
- Burrowed Lurker radius reduced from 0.75 to 0.375, which allows them to burrow closer to each other.
- Lurkers burrow during 2 seconds instead of 3. (Same as BW)
- Scourge speed increased from 3.48 to 3.58
- Scourge seperation radius increased from 0.375 to 0.5, which makes them more spread out in the air.
- Mutalisk attack range increased from 3 to 3.5

Terran

- Orbital Command cost reduced from 125 to 100 minerals.
- Orbital Command BT reduced from 40 to 30 sec.
- Orbital Command starting energy reduced from 50 to 25.
- Banshees damage increased from 2x8 to 2x10.
- Banshee life reduced from 140 to 120.
- Ghost Academy now requires Factory.
- Ghost damage reduced from 12 to 10.
- Ghost starting energy reduced from 75 to 50.
- Ghost now has regained its Seeker Drone ability, but it only deals 80 single target damage and no splash damage.
- Marauder damage lowered from 16 to 14.
- Marauder attack cooldown lowered from 2.14 to 1.6 seconds.
- Marauder cost increased from 75/25 to 100/25.
- Marauder radius lowered. (Takes more splash damage.)
- Spider mines take 0.25 seconds extra to plant.
<<<

Explanation:
>>>+ Show Spoiler +
Terran seems weak early game in TvP. Easier access to Orbital Command intends to buff early game production via
Overcharge. The lower starting energy at OC aims to make access to scan harder. Banshees are buffed as
hit-and-run units. They hit hard but are fragile. Two Banshees can now one-shot Probes and Drones.
Ghost got moved up in the tech tree since it is a strong spellcaster. It is now less of a pure combat unit.
Seeker Drone got brought back so we can try it out more, to see how it feels as a replacement for Snipe.
Marauder got faster attack speed to make them feel more similar to SC2 Marauders, in terms of control. To balance the buff in DPS, the cost got increased.

Protoss late game is considered weak in PvT. Arbiters with stronger Stasis and Recall intends to help with this.
Reavers are weak in pure combat, compared to BW. Longer attack range, more microability with Warp Prism and
better splash radius will hopefully be a step in the right direction.

Enrage at 35 energy aims at making the strong early Zerg defence a bit weaker vs both P and T. Lurkers are now able to burrow closer to each other, which should improve their ability to hold ramps and choke points. Faster
burrowing makes them more agile. Scourge got slightly increased movement speed to better interact vs Vikings and
Mutalisks. Both of those units can easily kite Scourges atm. Mutalisks are weak vs Bio, compared to how it worked
in BW. This tiny range bonus allow Mutas to better snipe off Marines.
<<<

Future work:
>>>+ Show Spoiler +
Early game PvZ might need more rework - scouting options, Hydra busts etc. Terran early pressure vs Protoss?
Dark Swarm needs to be reworked or adjusted. We aim to create it as it worked in BW vs Siege Tanks and Archons,
but it is hard to get it to work properly.

Spider mines
vs Dragoons might need more work too. There might be an issue with AI priority and a few other tehcnical issues. Banelings are left as they are for now. Last patch fixed a critical bug with them, where they dealt 40 splash damage to everything. But maybe will some kind of redesign come in the future, if needed for the gameplay.

Bio overall might need a rework in some form to become better balanced and more fun in all match-ups. Ghosts will probably need more tweaking, both with stats and with its spells. Shock might affect biological units instead of mechanical units, for a couple of reasons. Stalker stats? Scout with Phase Missile, and Sentinel might need more tweaking, especially vs T. And of course - the eternal struggle to get Carrier micro to feel good.
<<<

Ps. Battle.net has some issues, so this patch only got uploaded to EU. It will come to the other regions as soon as possible.

Creator of Starbow
Daumen
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1073 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-11 22:10:32
March 11 2014 22:04 GMT
#5222
Pretty cool patch. Thanks for the hard work.

On March 12 2014 06:48 Kabel wrote:
We aim to create it as it worked in BW vs Siege Tanks and Archons, but it is hard to get it to work properly.


Dont you underestimate Decemberscalm, he is a god. He made the Siege Tank Turret. I believe in Decemberscalm.




Thanks to all that want to help me on the German Translation, I found translations now and sent the devs the file already ;D need to do the Server side messages now but I went with "Ranglistenspiel" for Matchmaking :X Maybe its "too german" but it fits all the mentions of Matchmaking.
President of the ReaL Fan Club.
InFaMOUs331
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
42 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-11 22:20:16
March 11 2014 22:17 GMT
#5223
Was the zealot speed boost from hydra busts/aggressive terran play styles? Glad to see muta range increased, they are now more like bw mutas : ) I wonder if it'd be possible for you guys to make the muta turn and become as agile as its bw form. Great work on the patch.
gypsy___
Profile Joined November 2013
United States7 Posts
March 11 2014 22:31 GMT
#5224
ghosts nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo xD
gypsy danger
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
March 11 2014 23:48 GMT
#5225
Very nice patch
I especially like the no cooldown when placing down creep tumors. I really missed being able to spread creep faster like in Sc2
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 11 2014 23:53 GMT
#5226
On March 12 2014 08:48 -Archangel- wrote:
Very nice patch
I especially like the no cooldown when placing down creep tumors. I really missed being able to spread creep faster like in Sc2


Totally. but with 15energy tumors and 50startenergy queens I fear this will be too steong, even with the stronger creepremoval of Sbow.
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 00:06:21
March 12 2014 00:01 GMT
#5227
Seeker drone is a really cool idea, actually. But since it's pretty much just a really strong, expensive Snipe...Why not just change it to Snipe, but have it function more like Seeker Drone as is? For example, instead of shooting a missile, give it a 5 second cast time or an instant cast and a huuuuuuuuge cooldown.

Regardless, Seeker Drone is a pretty good idea to begin with. It just doesn't have the awesome sound effect that Snipe has.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9447 Posts
March 12 2014 00:06 GMT
#5228
On March 12 2014 09:01 HeyImFinn wrote:
Seeker drone is a really cool idea, actually. But since it's pretty just a really strong, expensive Snipe...Why not just change it to Snipe, but have it function more like Seeker Drone as is? For example, instead of shooting a missile, give it a 5 second cast time or an instant cast and a huuuuuuuuge cooldown.

Regardless, Seeker Drone is a pretty good idea to begin with. It just doesn't have the awesome sound effect that Snipe has.


Seeker Drone is basically like a reworked Snipe where the opponent can remicro. The first version of Seeker Drone had a too fast projectile which meant it was too hard to escape from it. But the current version should add more realistic countermicro.
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 00:11:18
March 12 2014 00:10 GMT
#5229
On March 12 2014 09:06 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 09:01 HeyImFinn wrote:
Seeker drone is a really cool idea, actually. But since it's pretty just a really strong, expensive Snipe...Why not just change it to Snipe, but have it function more like Seeker Drone as is? For example, instead of shooting a missile, give it a 5 second cast time or an instant cast and a huuuuuuuuge cooldown.

Regardless, Seeker Drone is a pretty good idea to begin with. It just doesn't have the awesome sound effect that Snipe has.


Seeker Drone is basically like a reworked Snipe where the opponent can remicro. The first version of Seeker Drone had a too fast projectile which meant it was too hard to escape from it. But the current version should add more realistic countermicro.

Oh, so is it completely avoidable?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9447 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 00:14:07
March 12 2014 00:13 GMT
#5230
On March 12 2014 09:10 HeyImFinn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 09:06 Hider wrote:
On March 12 2014 09:01 HeyImFinn wrote:
Seeker drone is a really cool idea, actually. But since it's pretty just a really strong, expensive Snipe...Why not just change it to Snipe, but have it function more like Seeker Drone as is? For example, instead of shooting a missile, give it a 5 second cast time or an instant cast and a huuuuuuuuge cooldown.

Regardless, Seeker Drone is a pretty good idea to begin with. It just doesn't have the awesome sound effect that Snipe has.


Seeker Drone is basically like a reworked Snipe where the opponent can remicro. The first version of Seeker Drone had a too fast projectile which meant it was too hard to escape from it. But the current version should add more realistic countermicro.

Oh, so is it completely avoidable?


Yes if you get out of range of it. As I remember it only lasts 6 seconds (and then the projecilte simply falls to the ground).
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
March 12 2014 00:17 GMT
#5231
On March 12 2014 09:13 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 09:10 HeyImFinn wrote:
On March 12 2014 09:06 Hider wrote:
On March 12 2014 09:01 HeyImFinn wrote:
Seeker drone is a really cool idea, actually. But since it's pretty just a really strong, expensive Snipe...Why not just change it to Snipe, but have it function more like Seeker Drone as is? For example, instead of shooting a missile, give it a 5 second cast time or an instant cast and a huuuuuuuuge cooldown.

Regardless, Seeker Drone is a pretty good idea to begin with. It just doesn't have the awesome sound effect that Snipe has.


Seeker Drone is basically like a reworked Snipe where the opponent can remicro. The first version of Seeker Drone had a too fast projectile which meant it was too hard to escape from it. But the current version should add more realistic countermicro.

Oh, so is it completely avoidable?


Yes if you get out of range of it. As I remember it only lasts 6 seconds (and then the projecilte simply falls to the ground).

Ah, now it makes sense. Thank you.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
March 12 2014 01:17 GMT
#5232
Unit test map "Starbow Tester 2.0" Updated!
InFaMOUs331
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
42 Posts
March 12 2014 01:22 GMT
#5233
On March 12 2014 10:17 JohnnyZerg wrote:
Unit test map "Starbow Tester 2.0" Updated!

yay! thank you
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 07:22:49
March 12 2014 03:55 GMT
#5234
Solid patch all together.
I think i like all changes tbh

Hope you really look into pvz in the future:
1) Stalker seem to be to all-around. That is not fun imo, i want more strategy for protoss. I want more micro in combat for protoss.
With the zealot without attackdelay(attackdelay dontwork well in this editor) and hydra to without i feel the micro has
gone downhill overall.

Okay, buffed lurker may make toss have to micro more in combat which would be awesome. Before i feel toss could almost amove his zealots.
God i miss that micro from bw alot, the battle vs lurker siege.


2) Tech seems overall worse across the board.
It affects pvz and other mus.
Iam not actually counting zerg able to buff his techtime cuz he gets behind eco so much. I just dont found it consistent.

Every race gets eco/units faster but not tech so if a race techs he faces so much units compared to bw.


I hope you try to look into tvp midgame in the future to. Seems to be very passive
This one is tricky ofcourse, i talk about when terr goes mech.
I believe the reactor is imba actually, still i think so. So with that gone and a 5sec buff to overcharge. Maybe it can help somewhat.

3) Maybe siegetank can get buffed tbh. Havent thought about it alot but it seems he suffers the same the lurker suffered tbh.
He siege so slow compared to bw cuz every unit reaches him faster.
His aoe is tho very good, especially vs zealots(better than in bw)
Not gonna mention ds ofcourse, cuz everyone knows about it
Maybe an slight attackspeed buff cuz everyunit reaches him faster.

Imagine if the pathing got "fixed", i mean if zealots walked in a line more. Lets just imagine it, now tanks will not do better aoe than in broodwar so attackspeed could be nice i feel

Buff siegetime, and attackspeed.
Just suggestions

Dunno if it helps in midgame tvp tho.
Alothough if the reactor gets removed we will see more tanks compared to now cuz terran are "forced" to go reactor=more vults.
Maybe it can help.

Hmm there must be other ways to look at tvp tbh also. But it requires work ofcourse
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
March 12 2014 07:13 GMT
#5235
You cannot have extra queens for laying creep tumors like in sc2, in sb you can only have 1 queen per hatchery.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-12 10:32:31
March 12 2014 07:17 GMT
#5236
On March 12 2014 16:13 -Archangel- wrote:
You cannot have extra queens for laying creep tumors like in sc2, in sb you can only have 1 queen per hatchery.

In broodwar you couldnt even spread creep
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
March 12 2014 09:16 GMT
#5237
My first analyzis of the patch without having played yet:

+ Show Spoiler +

Protoss

- Reaver attack range increased from 8 to 9.
- Reaver attack delay when unloading from a Warp Prism is reduced from 1.5 to 1.25 seconds.
- Reaver 100% splash area increased from 0.75 to 1. (50% dmg remains at area 1.75)
Very good changes on the reaver, the range increase will definately make it harder for zerg to snipe the reaver and the attack delay adds more microability to it. I think the splash area for 100% increase is a very good first approach. It may not be enough but it can be adjusted further.

- Stasis Field cast range increased from 7 to 9. (Same as BW)
- Stasis Field affects 10 units instead of 8.
- Arbiter no longer has a delay while using Recall.
A general good approach to buff protoss lategame, which suffers a bit atm.

- Zealot movement speed increased from 2.09 to 2.25.
It is a change I dont understand. I guess it is to buff the early agression of protoss, mainly vs zerg since it seems that the tvp early is weak for terran. Now I dont like this change because it is harder for marines to micro in the early vs zealots and since queen enrage got nerfed it means that z early defense got nerfed already. It might be abit of overkill, especially since the zerglings and zealots attackdelay removed it seems already as if zealots have gotten the upper hand compared to bw. I might be completely wrong though.

Zerg

- Energy cost for Enrage increased from 25 to 35.
- Queen no longer has a cooldown when planting Creep Tumors.
Very good changes to reduce the early defensive effectiveness of the queen. Now z has to think a bit more before enraging. In the counterpart Cooldown for creep tumors got removed. I approve.

- Burrowed Lurker radius reduced from 0.75 to 0.375, which allows them to burrow closer to each other.
- Lurkers burrow during 2 seconds instead of 3. (Same as BW)
Very good ways to buff the lurker without increasing their dmg or hp even more.

- Scourge speed increased from 3.48 to 3.58
- Scourge seperation radius increased from 0.375 to 0.5, which makes them more spread out in the air.
Very little changes. Dont think it is that huge.

- Mutalisk attack range increased from 3 to 3.5
This has been properly implemented to buff zvt when the terran is going bio, and it might work out very well, without breaking other unit interactions

Terran

- Orbital Command cost reduced from 125 to 100 minerals.
- Orbital Command BT reduced from 40 to 30 sec.
- Orbital Command starting energy reduced from 50 to 25.
Dont know about this tbh.

- Banshees damage increased from 2x8 to 2x10.
- Banshee life reduced from 140 to 120.
Not sure either.

- Ghost Academy now requires Factory.
- Ghost damage reduced from 12 to 10.
- Ghost starting energy reduced from 75 to 50.
- Ghost now has regained its Seeker Drone ability, but it only deals 80 single target damage and no splash damage.
- Marauder damage lowered from 16 to 14.
- Marauder attack cooldown lowered from 2.14 to 1.6 seconds.
- Marauder cost increased from 75/25 to 100/25.
- Marauder radius lowered. (Takes more splash damage.)

Obviously these are huge changes and noone can foresee how it will play out. I understand that you want to change the current bio to make it more fun to play and play against. You want it to be as viable as mech in a perfect world. I doubted alot of changes before but most of the time it worked out very well. (not always collossus and the good old firerauder^^ just saw an old replay of this unit again XD)

- Spider mines take 0.25 seconds extra to plant.
Spidermines had this coming^^ Increase splash? They suck WAY too much vs hydras. even when they trigger they only kill 1 hydra.


Overall very good changes
aka Kalevi
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
March 12 2014 10:59 GMT
#5238
Maybe it's a silly question, but why do we actually have marauders in the game? It seems to me that firebats could fill their niche quite well.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Sikian
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Spain177 Posts
March 12 2014 11:15 GMT
#5239
On March 12 2014 16:17 Foxxan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 16:13 -Archangel- wrote:
You cannot have extra queens for laying creep tumors like in sc2, in sb you can only have 1 queen per hatchery.

In broodwar you couldnt even spread creep


Of course you could! It was kind of expensive and worthless, but it could be done if you liked purple mucus
Helping Starbow :: a.k.a. SoaH
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
March 12 2014 11:16 GMT
#5240
On March 12 2014 19:59 Grumbels wrote:
Maybe it's a silly question, but why do we actually have marauders in the game? It seems to me that firebats could fill their niche quite well.

My guess is they're there to make bio more viable vs protoss.
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