Starbow - Page 264

On March 12 2014 23:04 -Archangel- wrote:

Ha, I knew you would compare energy, it just shows you use faulty logic to prove your point
#1 In sc2 direct comparisons out of context don't work because each side is completely different, including basic building and macro mechanics.
#2 It is 15 energy because unlike sc2 queen cannot attack by default so it does need to have more energy built up to use its defensive abilities and the last change of enrage to 35 is not only a nerf to enrage but to creep tumors and injects and transfuse, it just needs opponents to be more active.
#3 Scan is a more reliable scouting options and it detects invisible. I really don't know why I need to spell this out, it is like I am explaining 1+1 to you...
#4 Those creep tumors don't turn into 1000 by themselves. Try playing Zerg for a while and lets see how many creep tumors you will spawn during the game. If I could exchange creep tumors for a Terran Scan I would without a thought, especially since in SB it is so much weaker with no speed increase.

Creep tumor = energy = less energy for Inject and Transmute = to Terran needing to choose between vision and macro.

In case you didnt know

On March 12 2014 23:56 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Is there a unit tester for SB?

On March 13 2014 00:01 Hider wrote:


Yes. Its typically on page two of the search list (when you search for starbow).

On March 12 2014 07:04 Daumen wrote:
Pretty cool patch. Thanks for the hard work.



Dont you underestimate Decemberscalm, he is a god. He made the Siege Tank Turret. I believe in Decemberscalm.

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Thanks to all that want to help me on the German Translation, I found translations now and sent the devs the file already ;D need to do the Server side messages now but I went with "Ranglistenspiel" for Matchmaking :X Maybe its "too german" but it fits all the mentions of Matchmaking.

On March 12 2014 23:57 Grumbels wrote:
I imagine the dislike of creep comes from watching SC2 games where the zerg has creep spread at the opponent's four base and as a result it makes the game so easy for the zerg. Back in 2012 I was considering ideas like that overlords should have less vision, that creep should be easier to deny, that it should recede faster, and so on, all to prevent zerg play from being too comfortable. And don't forget that Blizzard did end up slowing down creep spread in Heart of the Swarm.

I really like creep as a mechanic, but obviously it should ideally be used as a cushion around the zerg's bases, not as complete map domination. Even for Starbow I don't mind suggestions to increase the mana cost of the creep tumor to 25.

On March 12 2014 23:57 Grumbels wrote:
I imagine the dislike of creep comes from watching SC2 games where the zerg has creep spread at the opponent's four base and as a result it makes the game so easy for the zerg. Back in 2012 I was considering ideas like that overlords should have less vision, that creep should be easier to deny, that it should recede faster, and so on, all to prevent zerg play from being too comfortable. And don't forget that Blizzard did end up slowing down creep spread in Heart of the Swarm.

I really like creep as a mechanic, but obviously it should ideally be used as a cushion around the zerg's bases, not as complete map domination. Even for Starbow I don't mind suggestions to increase the mana cost of the creep tumor to 25.

On March 13 2014 00:40 -Archangel- wrote:

Having creep near enemy base it not bad, it is awesome player that can do that. You obviously have no idea how hard is to spread creep fast and how irritating it is for Zerg players that what took them 10 minutes to make, the other side destroys in like 30s with 2-3 scans or an observer. But it gives a noticeable bonus in speed and it is needed in SC2. Zergs would not be spreading it as much if it didn't. In SB the vision + slight regeneration is not incentive enough to spread it as much and waste so much APM on it.

On March 13 2014 01:54 WarpTV wrote:
I call BS on the Creep topic,

First off, Terran on 3 base don't care about the cost of scan Most players can't spend all of that energy, If Terran expects a Zerg has another base, on a whim they will scan every expansion location trying to locate your 5th or 6th base. Terran does not have to micro his scans across the map all game long to build up to that scout, .You literally go "oh shit I think he has a base that I missed" > scan > scan > scan. "oh there it is building now!"

Have you ever seen a Zerg build a detector unit that he needs anyway, then A-Move it with his army and kill of every scan? NO!

Also creep forces energy out of the queen at the start of the game for creep to be effective. Scan does not have such requirement, You can overcharge for the first 9 mins of the game, then scan later. Zerg is hit with damage to macro much earlier in the game by spending more energy on creep.

I really do not see how creep is worse or "more damaging" to the game. Seems like the Pot calling the kettle black.

And no one is talking about the flying cloaked map hacks that are Protoss Observers.

On March 13 2014 02:20 Laertes wrote:


Please stop being obnoxious, this is your final warning. You have done nothing but insult everyone who challenges your point and I will have you ejected from the thread if you don't calm down. I don't appreciate your aggressiveness in this discussion and your ad hominem attacks, we have tested creep speed extensively and one of the reasons we removed it was because it made Zerg impenetrable. Defender's advantage is fine but Zerg is a balancing act because it's just so difficult to scout them and scouting them matters because their Tier 2 is flexible. This is all I am going to say on the subject, please don't flame me or anyone who argues against you, it is extremely infuriating to see someone taking every opportunity to bash someone who doesn't agree with him, you don't live in an echo chamber, cut it out.