EPTLike Avilo has said though, if they really want to make mech viable all they have to do is make the armories cheaper, don't know why this is so hard to understand...
HotS Balance Update - November 11 - Page 37
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
Like Avilo has said though, if they really want to make mech viable all they have to do is make the armories cheaper, don't know why this is so hard to understand... | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:14 Prog455 wrote: Don't be stupid. Ofcourse he wants a balanced game. He has in fact been fairly succesful, given the fact that the balance right now is as good as it has ever been. David Kims problem is that he is very bad a making the game entertaining and dynamic. This is obviously because Blizzard refuses to make actual game changing patches, to get rid of the many bad mechanics that is currently making it hard for the game to progress. Mechanics such as Force Fields and Warp-ins that is. Personally, I'd prefer a balance of imbalances like BW had. We saw what a homogenous pile the end of WoL was, and it was absolutely fucking horrible. I don't want to play that game, but I will play a game where each race has really strong stuff and I have to learn to adapt to it. Interesting games to watch, fun games to play. On another note- Oracle changes are kind of strange, but I'm interested. Terran changes are circuitous and silly, and Roach changes are Roach changes. Can we just change the bunker? | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
On November 12 2013 16:43 ejozl wrote: This is a kind of motivation patch. You've all got small new tools, go experiment! Also new maps. Solid reason to jump on the ladder again  Dude, you're a glass is half full kind of guy aren't you? The gaming community/internet will crucify you. I agree, though. Despite the mine nerf, every other portion of this patch is a buff to diversify play. I understand people getting passionate about the game, but some of people's statements on here are borderline, okay, full blown idiotic. Also, it's funny seeing statements like, "This game should be balanced for all skill levels, including me in gold." You mean, the league where people can barely do an opening efficiently, not to mention consistently produce workers? Yeaaaaaaahhhhhhh.... Can't wait to see what the innovators bring to the table with new builds and whatnot. Should be fun | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
What has changed the matchup the most? MSC. In early and midgame, what is the most terrible thing for protoss? SCV-Pull/Stim-Timings (correct me, I'm a Zerg/Terran hybrid). What does the Oracle do? Kind-of-prevent stim timings via harassment and scouting (instead of a sentry with a halucination). Can you easily transition out of stargate tech to hold a possible scv pull? Depends on map (i.e. usage of forcefields, timewarps/overcharge. You will need way more forcefields on derelict than on frost) and base distance (cause it changes the timing for like 3-30 seconds I think). So, I think Oracle buffs protoss in terms of early game harassment only. In lategame, protoss should have warpprisms, halucinations and observers, though revelation is nice to have, it's not like taking a crucial engagement without guardian shield. Oracle makes Phoenix easier (I bet Jim and Macsed love the change), but doesn't change the matchup a whole. So let's just see how it plays out and check again in 1-6 months? ___ Mech buff: Oh hell, the upgrades are not the problems in mech. The problem is basically that mech is designed to harass a bit and turtle since 200/200. Oh wait, what is your average protoss player who is not called sOs or maybe Dear about? Protoss has Oracles and Warprism for effective harass methods. A mech terran will have to rely on drops (hellbat drops with da blue flame). protoss shouldn't be as afraid of hellbats as of double bio drops, at least in lategame. So, mech should provide some changes to ZvT and TvT (though TvT is perfectly fine IMO. very intersting matchup). Let's see how this plays out soon. I don't know why everyone here seems to go nuts on protoss vs terran, though the mech change appears to be more interesting for TvT and ZvT. ___ And WHAT THE HELL roaches on crack under the surface I mean every zerg should now finally get the value of burrow this is so cool! | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:19 Mortal wrote: Personally, I'd prefer a balance of imbalances like BW had. We saw what a homogenous pile the end of WoL was, and it was absolutely fucking horrible. I don't want to play that game, but I will play a game where each race has really strong stuff and I have to learn to adapt to it. Interesting games to watch, fun games to play. On another note- Oracle changes are kind of strange, but I'm interested. Terran changes are circuitous and silly, and Roach changes are Roach changes. Can we just change the bunker? The Bunker has been redesigned - it will now complete on its own if it has been built to 50%, even without an SCV building it. | ||
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GrimEpilogue
Netherlands4 Posts
I've always found this oracle buff unnecessary- when I lost my Oracle early I could always find a mistake on my own side that lead to its fall rather than a lack of unit potency, and I do believe it's far too squishy for extensive late-game use anyway. A small clump of vikings can off it in a single volley and I don't see that dynamic changing- whether 150/150 justifies revelation (of which the awesomeness I am not remotely disputing) is up for debate. Besides- Oracle use still seems to be in its growth stage, I would've waited until it matured a bit as a tool. (e.g. it's insanely good as an early/mid-game creep spread cleaner- which I've hardly seen used.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the other changes- looking forward to some more advanced roach play. Blizzard had intended to make this Roach utility viable at the start of WoL (I believe), I hope they opt to press it through and tweak this roach adaption until it's actually viable. Terran changes seem mostly TvZ related, as tank AS doesn't affect tempest play, WM splash is a non-issue. TL;DR I don't know jack-shit about these. The armory buff is going to be interesting- I challenge Terran mech mostly with Tempest (small number of VR), the fact that Terran can power up their tank/thor and Vikings at the same time might lead to an interesting shift in potency. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Overall nice changes- hope they stay on it and follow through where some micro-calibrations need to be made. GLHF. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:24 wUndertUnge wrote: Dude, you're a glass is half full kind of guy aren't you? The gaming community/internet will crucify you. I agree, though. Despite the mine nerf, every other portion of this patch is a buff to diversify play. I understand people getting passionate about the game, but some of people's statements on here are borderline, okay, full blown idiotic. Also, it's funny seeing statements like, "This game should be balanced for all skill levels, including me in gold." You mean, the league where people can barely do an opening efficiently, not to mention consistently produce workers? Yeaaaaaaahhhhhhh.... Can't wait to see what the innovators bring to the table with new builds and whatnot. Should be fun I like you two. | ||
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IAmWithStupid
Russian Federation1016 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:24 wUndertUnge wrote: Dude, you're a glass is half full kind of guy aren't you? The gaming community/internet will crucify you. I agree, though. Despite the mine nerf, every other portion of this patch is a buff to diversify play. I understand people getting passionate about the game, but some of people's statements on here are borderline, okay, full blown idiotic. Also, it's funny seeing statements like, "This game should be balanced for all skill levels, including me in gold." You mean, the league where people can barely do an opening efficiently, not to mention consistently produce workers? Yeaaaaaaahhhhhhh.... Can't wait to see what the innovators bring to the table with new builds and whatnot. Should be fun Starting from now I'll not open up with an oracle, because MINDGAMES!!! BTW, I am a random low bronze player who playing just for lulz and watching tournaments for good epic games | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On November 13 2013 00:51 Crownlol wrote: The real problem is that Terran doesn't have much *outside* of Bio, since a Stimmed Bio army is so freaking strong. I was watching WCS EU a few weeks ago, and even at that level we had a Terran (Kas or BK I think) just walking right over a Protoss (MaNa?) with a 10 minute timing push. You must have missed the point where they suggested that the Marine is nerfed and everything else is balanced around that. Literally sweeping buffs for the Terran race to allow for neat, unique playstyles outside of just making units that start with M. Personally, I'd like to see heavier use of Banshees, Ravens, BCs, Transformation Servos, Unseiged Tanks, and Thors. It sucks that Banshees are useless outside of early cloak harass, when they're a neat unit. Not sure why we don't see them in greater numbers in Mech armies to allow for extra DPS from the air (voidray-like), as well as using their mobility and cloak to harass multiple bases in the late and midgame.[/QUOTE} See, you missed that the discussion was to nerf Marines and buff everything else you have. Why complain about that. We complain because the Marine is the very definition of what a good unit should be, according to LaLush's depth of micro thread, the marine is reliable, consistent and responsive, they are the very standard to which the majority of units should be measured against. And you propose to nerf it? How about, instead of proposing stupid changes like this, how about we push to normalize all units (not just terran ones), so they can be reliable, consistent and responsive. How about we fix the other real issues, that mech is in and of itself inflexible and immobile? How about we fix the issue of terran production being so rigid? How about we also stop suggesting stupid, shallowly thought out ideas and start analyzing the real roots of the problems? | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:32 GrimEpilogue wrote: Besides- Oracle use still seems to be in its growth stage, I would've waited until it matured a bit as a tool. (e.g. it's insanely good as an early/mid-game creep spread cleaner- which I've hardly seen used.) Serious genuine question, not sarcasm or anything : how do you think Oracle could be used to deal with creep? I mean it costs so much energy to detect and activate beam, I'm not convinced you can clean much or very often with what remains of energy. I'd be inclined to think a void ray is better for that kind of job if you can react to tumors before they burrow or just a stalker and an obs. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:21 Destructicon wrote: Oh and yes, like NarutO said, you aren't a true terran if you quit at the first sign of trouble! They can bring their worst, once a terran, always a terran. SC2 terran is not really a terran.. it's more like a stimmed protoss. oh and collosus are basically a gay dicks, no one should like that unit. btw, oracles are stupid. User was warned for this post | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
I really would like to know what they think they are accomplishing by doing this as others have pointed out they wanted Diversity in the match up. Instead they traded one consistent composition for another kinda backwards is it not? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:50 Pirfiktshon wrote: I would not be surprised to see A lot of Foreign Terran Players Resign and Retire in reaction to this. I really would like to know what they think they are accomplishing by doing this as others have pointed out they wanted Diversity in the match up. Instead they traded one consistent composition for another kinda backwards is it not? Dramatic much? They will keep chugging along and adjust as they always have. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:44 Destructicon wrote: We complain because the Marine is the very definition of what a good unit should be, according to LaLush's depth of micro thread, the marine is reliable, consistent and responsive, they are the very standard to which the majority of units should be measured against. And you propose to nerf it? How about, instead of proposing stupid changes like this, how about we push to normalize all units (not just terran ones), so they can be reliable, consistent and responsive. How about we fix the other real issues, that mech is in and of itself inflexible and immobile? How about we fix the issue of terran production being so rigid? How about we also stop suggesting stupid, shallowly thought out ideas and start analyzing the real roots of the problems? You either didn't read my post, or need to re-read it. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 01:54 Plansix wrote: Dramatic much? They will keep chugging along and adjust as they always have. Unless he's trolling, it's like the 2007 WoW forums in this thread right now. "OMGZ I'M GANNA QUIT BECUASE BLIZZARD HATES MY RACE/CLASS/SPEC" | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
I'd be curious to know who are the pro players who supported the oracle speed change. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Its stupid with this buff to tanks it hurts my TvT and with the Nerf to widow mine it hurts my TvZ and the Buff to Oracles makes holding the proxy oracle play even harder which hurts my TvP why shouldn't I be dramatic? | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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OneSpeed
Norway47 Posts
They removed new Warhound They nerfed hellbats They nerfed widow mines Seems like we're facing another year of WoL where Terrans nerfed to oblivion. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
On November 13 2013 02:04 Ghanburighan wrote: Rule of thumb in this thread, don't respond to Plansix (the jury's out on Crownlol, but probably the same). They are just stirring up stuff. Just look at the number of times they've posted in this thread - if they had something to contribute, they would have said it already. Instead they are just flame-baiting responses and enjoying the show. plansix is a diamond protoss, any average street monkey can achieve that | ||
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