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On November 13 2013 00:47 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 00:44 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 13 2013 00:37 Zealously wrote:On November 13 2013 00:23 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 12 2013 23:47 Crownlol wrote:On November 12 2013 23:24 -Celestial- wrote:
This thread...it really is amazing how much a number of Terrans on these forums balance whine. Whine when winrates are good for them, whine when winrates are even, whine when they're evenly represented at tournaments, whine when they're dominating representation at tournaments, whine when they're dominating the tournaments themselves...it never ends! And somehow its still justifiable in all circumstances to whine about other races being OP and always play the victim.
Anyway as for the patch, its ok I guess. The tank buff is nice. Problem is the fundamental problem with Terran still hasn't been addressed though...the marine needs to be nerfed and everything else rebalanced around it. THAT'S when you'll see more diverse options; when the marine isn't a cheap, low-supply, quick to build, catch-all answer to just about everything. Nerf the marine and you can buff probably the majority of the rest of the Terran arsenal; but Blizzard has never wanted to touch the marine for some strange reason. I, too, am shocked at the amount of Terran crybabies. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about the Marine, and everyone knows you're right. But can you imagine the tears if they nerfed it? I still just can't get over how Stupid of a comment this is about marines. Lets Recap shall we***ALL INSTANCES WITH NO MICRO ***: 1 Oracle > 5 Marines 1 Stalker > 2 Marines 1 Zealot > 3 Marines 1 Immortal > 4 Marines Archon > Marines Colo > Marines Templar > Marines I know this is kind of a Troll Post but the Comment before was Absolutely backwards I just can't take this kind of ridiculousness ...... If you lose three marines to one zealot it is unlikely that you are good at starcraft I'm not going to try and say I have ever lost 3 marines to 1 zealot or even 2 marines to 1 zealot but I thought the Giant ****ALL INSTANCES WITH NO MICRO*** sign would have caught your attention.......................... lol you just simply CAN'T justify anything by slapping a "no micro" warning on top of it. Everyone at any level in starcraft micros lol You're removing an essential part of the game to prove a silly point. I don't agree with nerfing the marine (lol), but ya, I laugh any time anyone tries to make a point by saying "no micro"
Not sure how everyone missed the entire point of my "nerf Marines" post and got to this ridiculous discussion, but here it is again:
[QUOTE]The real problem is that Terran doesn't have much *outside* of Bio, since a Stimmed Bio army is so freaking strong. I was watching WCS EU a few weeks ago, and even at that level we had a Terran (Kas or BK I think) just walking right over a Protoss (MaNa?) with a 10 minute timing push.
You must have missed the point where they suggested that the Marine is nerfed and everything else is balanced around that. Literally sweeping buffs for the Terran race to allow for neat, unique playstyles outside of just making units that start with M.
Personally, I'd like to see heavier use of Banshees, Ravens, BCs, Transformation Servos, Unseiged Tanks, and Thors. It sucks that Banshees are useless outside of early cloak harass, when they're a neat unit. Not sure why we don't see them in greater numbers in Mech armies to allow for extra DPS from the air (voidray-like), as well as using their mobility and cloak to harass multiple bases in the late and midgame.[/QUOTE}
See, you missed that the discussion was to nerf Marines and buff everything else you have. Why complain about that.
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On November 13 2013 00:43 TeeTS wrote:
I think it´s pretty reasonable, that protoss players want to sell us the fact, that mech is TOTALLY viable. In the end, it means higher winrates for them, when terrans start playing strategies, that are meant to fail from the start.
I played a neat mech build back in WoL, but it was more a 2base allin. Tank/BFH/Marine allin off 2base. It worked well from time to time. But whenever it didn´t kill, I could see very well, that you can´t win with mech on equal footing against toss. And with Photon overcharge, there is no way of a successful tankbased allin against toss.
You are spreading so much nonsense that it is ridiculous. Nobody here is saying(or at least shouldn't be saying) that mech is viable, but that you should be playing at least some significant number of games to make sure that Mech is or isn't viable, and to see if the Tanks are good, bad, mediocre or whatever, and not just jump to the conclusions.
Saying right now how Mech is viable and how Tanks are amazing without playing the game first, is the same as saying how Terran is awful now and that they should just delete the race because they nerfed everything "good" that Terran could do, and to be honest I see a lot more Terran second type comments than the first ones.
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i have the feeling that DK doesn't want a balanced game.
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Mecha vs P had a timing window to win before the P get all of his tech unit, and the only counter was void ray IIRC, but well, it's not like P always open stargate... o wait.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 13 2013 00:54 The_best32 wrote:
i have the feeling that DK doesn't want a balanced game.
On November 13 2013 00:45 The_best32 wrote:
what the fuck is wrong in david kims mind???
I'm quitting sc2 now.
mods, you can ban me, i'm not looking in this forum anymore.
Do you post without looking?
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The DT movement speed change would have been so lovely.
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Thanks blizzard! Now oracles can kill all my reapers on the run. My strat of countering oracle proxy using heavy reaper counterattack is gone... I'll go find another strat now.... ;( .
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Cry me a river.
"Hey Terran does not win every tournament ever" -> Terran is weak
"Protoss wins 3 major tournament in a while" -> Protoss is imba
Few guys here need to learn the word "moderation". They sure look like a bunch of whining kids not adults in their 20's or later.
Where were you when Blizzard put the balance test maps and offered to listen to your feedbacks? Where were you when the balance test tournament happened? How about stopping theorycrafting out of thin air (hint: numbers are not all there is to strategy) on "patch day+1" and actually play the game for a few months/dig into the replays or VODs of previously mentionned tournament/watch coming tournaments/let the changes take effect into the meta before actually complaining?
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On November 13 2013 00:46 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 00:44 Zealously wrote:On November 13 2013 00:38 FirstGear wrote:
I hate how people say terran just spam tier 1 units until they win. Good luck playing tvp without vikings or ghosts. Medivacs and mines sure as heck arent tier 1 too. What unit are they meant to spam other than bio? - warhounds were removed, hellbats were nerfed, the other units are gas intensive enough they cant be spammed and tend to be quite slow/immobile. I think FOrGG makes hellbats work quite well, actually, I think FOrGG is, or was at least, on of the best mechanical players in the game. And still he has absolute 0 results. That he can own some random dudes on european ladder with mech, is nice for him. But once he hits an opponent, who actually knows how to play the game and has at least a somehow similar mechanical skillset, he gets rolled over.
forrgg has platinum level marine splits. thats why he goes hellbats.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1qfk8z/fifty_shades_of_protoss/
Might've been stolen from Battle.net forums. I thought this thread can use some laughter...
I entered the Protoss's base and he greeted me with a long and piercing gaze. I became unusually nervous, but alas, still managed to muster up some words.
"Hi, I just came to harass." I said with a raspy and shaky voice.
"Don't be shy, my Photon Overcharge isn't ready yet." He whispered.
I gently maneuvered my Marines around his base killing his Probes and I felt an emotion I had never felt before. My heart began to race. I really couldn't believe this was happening! I never told him I hadn't dropped in a Protoss base before, but it seemed like he already knew. He was much more experienced than me and I loved every bit of it. Before I knew it, he already had a couple of Stalkers out.
"Did I not see it warping?", I thought to myself.
"You seem surprised", he said in a cool but gentle voice.
I didn't respond. I kept on doing what I was doing. It's as if my Marines and his Stalkers were dancing, but as his growing number of Stalkers started becoming a threat to my Marines, I just couldn't hold my nerves anymore. It felt like a different force took control of my body. I couldn't handle it anymore. I looked up at the Protoss and for the first time realized that he was experiencing a similar sensation. I could tell he was tingling just like I was. He was shaken like I was. He was exited like I was. Thing got intense. Our APM grew exponentially. His Stalkers Blinked, my Marines stimmed, his Zealots Charged, and I managed to drop Marauders. But as things got too intense for us, it was all finally over. He Photon Overcharged all over my Marines. It felt so good, yet, so wrong. I had just lost my army! I looked up at him and took a good look at his eyes once again. His gaze said it all.
"gg" I said as I quickly exited the game. I didn't even give him a chance to respond.
A minute later, I was in the lobby and received a message.
"rematch?", he said as if nothing had happened.
I knew it was wrong, and I knew I shouldn't do it, but I accepted regardless...
To Be Continued...
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On November 13 2013 00:51 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 00:47 ffadicted wrote:On November 13 2013 00:44 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 13 2013 00:37 Zealously wrote:On November 13 2013 00:23 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 12 2013 23:47 Crownlol wrote:On November 12 2013 23:24 -Celestial- wrote:
This thread...it really is amazing how much a number of Terrans on these forums balance whine. Whine when winrates are good for them, whine when winrates are even, whine when they're evenly represented at tournaments, whine when they're dominating representation at tournaments, whine when they're dominating the tournaments themselves...it never ends! And somehow its still justifiable in all circumstances to whine about other races being OP and always play the victim.
Anyway as for the patch, its ok I guess. The tank buff is nice. Problem is the fundamental problem with Terran still hasn't been addressed though...the marine needs to be nerfed and everything else rebalanced around it. THAT'S when you'll see more diverse options; when the marine isn't a cheap, low-supply, quick to build, catch-all answer to just about everything. Nerf the marine and you can buff probably the majority of the rest of the Terran arsenal; but Blizzard has never wanted to touch the marine for some strange reason. I, too, am shocked at the amount of Terran crybabies. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about the Marine, and everyone knows you're right. But can you imagine the tears if they nerfed it? I still just can't get over how Stupid of a comment this is about marines. Lets Recap shall we***ALL INSTANCES WITH NO MICRO ***: 1 Oracle > 5 Marines 1 Stalker > 2 Marines 1 Zealot > 3 Marines 1 Immortal > 4 Marines Archon > Marines Colo > Marines Templar > Marines I know this is kind of a Troll Post but the Comment before was Absolutely backwards I just can't take this kind of ridiculousness ...... If you lose three marines to one zealot it is unlikely that you are good at starcraft I'm not going to try and say I have ever lost 3 marines to 1 zealot or even 2 marines to 1 zealot but I thought the Giant ****ALL INSTANCES WITH NO MICRO*** sign would have caught your attention.......................... lol you just simply CAN'T justify anything by slapping a "no micro" warning on top of it. Everyone at any level in starcraft micros lol You're removing an essential part of the game to prove a silly point. I don't agree with nerfing the marine (lol), but ya, I laugh any time anyone tries to make a point by saying "no micro" Not sure how everyone missed the entire point of my "nerf Marines" post and got to this ridiculous discussion, but here it is again: Show nested quote +The real problem is that Terran doesn't have much *outside* of Bio, since a Stimmed Bio army is so freaking strong. I was watching WCS EU a few weeks ago, and even at that level we had a Terran (Kas or BK I think) just walking right over a Protoss (MaNa?) with a 10 minute timing push.
You must have missed the point where they suggested that the Marine is nerfed and everything else is balanced around that. Literally sweeping buffs for the Terran race to allow for neat, unique playstyles outside of just making units that start with M.
Personally, I'd like to see heavier use of Banshees, Ravens, BCs, Transformation Servos, Unseiged Tanks, and Thors. It sucks that Banshees are useless outside of early cloak harass, when they're a neat unit. Not sure why we don't see them in greater numbers in Mech armies to allow for extra DPS from the air (voidray-like), as well as using their mobility and cloak to harass multiple bases in the late and midgame. See, you missed that the discussion was to nerf Marines and buff everything else you have. Why complain about that.
I would gladly want this!
Because lots of ppl here were saying how much better BW is compared to sc2, I installed and played it (properly, trying some builds i have read here)
Tanks in BW feel so intimidating and awesome! Compared to them, sc2 tanks feel weak and not that much fun.
Also, I miss Goliaths. I think, they should have eliminated the thor and made the warhound the new Goliath for sc2
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United States1072 Posts
Think about this. How many Foreign Terrans has their been in WCS Premier League? How many Foreign Protoss has their been in WCS Premier League? or Zerg for that matter..........
0 For Terran as far as I know
1 For Protoss
2 For Zerg
Are you saying that Terran players are just aweful and that nerfing them is actually a good idea because we play a race that we don't know how to use?
I understand Korean Terrans have done well this year but that means we have to nerf them into the ground and buff protoss because david kim wants to see protoss spanking Terrans with 1 Unit for a year?
I'm seriously going to go on Ladder today Load up Protoss and Play a WHole bunch of ladder games with just proxy oracle strats and show you the winrate... its going to be retarded..........
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On November 13 2013 00:57 HYRULE15 wrote:
The DT movement speed change would have been so lovely.
Honestly movement speed changes are more difficult than Blizzard tends to think.
If you look at all the least used units in Starcraft 2 right now, they are the unmobile ones (BC, Carrier, Thor, and we even see Brood Lord pretty much gone from the meta-game, sure they are more common than say BC or Carrier).
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On November 13 2013 00:51 Crownlol wrote:
See, you missed that the discussion was to nerf Marines and buff everything else you have. Why complain about that.
No I know. It could work. I just like the marine's micro potential, but you could be right, I wasn't making an argument against it.
I was just making a comment on the "no micro" thing. It's always annoyed me seeing it lol
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On November 13 2013 01:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Think about this. How many Foreign Terrans has their been in WCS Premier League? How many Foreign Protoss has their been in WCS Premier League? or Zerg for that matter..........
0 For Terran as far as I know
1 For Protoss
2 For Zerg
Are you saying that Terran players are just aweful and that nerfing them is actually a good idea because we play a race that we don't know how to use?
I understand Korean Terrans have done well this year but that means we have to nerf them into the ground and buff protoss because david kim wants to see protoss spanking Terrans with 1 Unit for a year?
I'm seriously going to go on Ladder today Load up Protoss and Play a WHole bunch of ladder games with just proxy oracle strats and show you the winrate... its going to be retarded..........
Keep us posted!
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Im just gonna wait and watch what the pros do.
Like They always have Korean terrans will find a way to make anything work.
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On November 13 2013 00:46 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 00:44 Zealously wrote:On November 13 2013 00:38 FirstGear wrote:
I hate how people say terran just spam tier 1 units until they win. Good luck playing tvp without vikings or ghosts. Medivacs and mines sure as heck arent tier 1 too. What unit are they meant to spam other than bio? - warhounds were removed, hellbats were nerfed, the other units are gas intensive enough they cant be spammed and tend to be quite slow/immobile. I think FOrGG makes hellbats work quite well, actually, I think FOrGG is, or was at least, on of the best mechanical players in the game. And still he has absolute 0 results. That he can own some random dudes on european ladder with mech, is nice for him. But once he hits an opponent, who actually knows how to play the game and has at least a somehow similar mechanical skillset, he gets rolled over.
He doesn't play mech. He mixes in hellbats with his MMM. Pre-hellbat nerf this style was extremely easy to use and can be difficult for P to deal with.
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On November 13 2013 01:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Think about this. How many Foreign Terrans has their been in WCS Premier League? How many Foreign Protoss has their been in WCS Premier League? or Zerg for that matter..........
0 For Terran as far as I know
1 For Protoss
2 For Zerg
Are you saying that Terran players are just aweful and that nerfing them is actually a good idea because we play a race that we don't know how to use?
I understand Korean Terrans have done well this year but that means we have to nerf them into the ground and buff protoss because david kim wants to see protoss spanking Terrans with 1 Unit for a year?
I'm seriously going to go on Ladder today Load up Protoss and Play a WHole bunch of ladder games with just proxy oracle strats and show you the winrate... its going to be retarded..........
Please post replays.
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On November 13 2013 01:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Think about this. How many Foreign Terrans has their been in WCS Premier League? How many Foreign Protoss has their been in WCS Premier League? or Zerg for that matter..........
0 For Terran as far as I know
1 For Protoss
2 For Zerg
Are you saying that Terran players are just aweful and that nerfing them is actually a good idea because we play a race that we don't know how to use?
I understand Korean Terrans have done well this year but that means we have to nerf them into the ground and buff protoss because david kim wants to see protoss spanking Terrans with 1 Unit for a year?
I'm seriously going to go on Ladder today Load up Protoss and Play a WHole bunch of ladder games with just proxy oracle strats and show you the winrate... its going to be retarded..........
Ah the return of the foreign Terran argument returns. Can't say terrans don't win, because player like maru, poly and innovation exist. So, we need to limit that data to terrans that don't win, because we gotta prove that Terran is the weakest, hardest race.
Some things never change, brings me back to late 2011.
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On November 13 2013 00:54 The_best32 wrote:
i have the feeling that DK doesn't want a balanced game.
Don't be stupid. Ofcourse he wants a balanced game. He has in fact been fairly succesful, given the fact that the balance right now is as good as it has ever been. David Kims problem is that he is very bad a making the game entertaining and dynamic. This is obviously because Blizzard refuses to make actual game changing patches, to get rid of the many bad mechanics that is currently making it hard for the game to progress. Mechanics such as Force Fields and Warp-ins that is.
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EPT
