On August 15 2013 08:13 JimmiC wrote:On August 15 2013 07:36 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 15 2013 06:16 JimmiC wrote:
You were actaully horribly mistaken that people would jump on your lets make MVP the bad guys thing. For some unknown reason you brought them into this discussion. And you continue to be negative about it calling it "the begging bowl" I'm sure a man with your integrity would never ask his fans for cash, it's compely different that you offer a 4.99$ subsciption on your twitch channel. Or because you provide such a valuable sevice you are allowed to ask for money but not them. No hypocracy there. It's really lucky that you have so many fans that seem to only read one post of yours at a time. Or just enjoy that u stir the pot. Because you sure are full of bs.
Lovely attempt to twist my words there to claim I insulted MVP. That's exactly what MVP did, begged for money. They asked the community to fund their trip, despite the fact that they have more sponsor funding than Axiom does and don't salary all of their players. We assumed that a team of our standing would be torn to bits by the community for asking for money, but apparently it's ok for MVP to do so. I'm sorry if you feel that the term "begging" is insulting, maybe I should have used "fundraising" so as not to offend your fragile sensibilities.
I tend to find that people that can't even spell hypocrisy shouldn't be accusing people of it. You seriously think "please pay for our trip to ATC" and "There's an optional $4.99 subscription on the Twitch channel which gives various benefits in return" is somehow the same thing. Do you need a pole? I ask because your logical leaps are becoming logical vaults and your mental gymnastics are olympic standard.
I really hope you keep posting. You're the gift that keeps on giving, admittedly I do feel a little bad beating on someone who lost 8 pages ago but refuses to call GG.
How did he make his own money? How did he obtain so many followers. Much of it is because of e-sports, if not al
Alright you've just proven you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Stick a fork in him folks, this guys done.
If the reason you think you are beating me is because people are agreeing with you, you are silly. They are agreeing because they are part of your fan base, or at the very least recognize you as some member of the elite in esports.
I did not twist your words this is what you said
Frankly if we'd known it was acceptable to toss out the begging bowl like MVP, who evidently needed to do it despite having way more sponsors than we do, then maybe we'd have done that,
I should have maybe called it a "passive aggressive not so subtle jab at a another organization" instead of insult but some times I don't take the time to write out what I've written out 10x already.
Am I the only one to take it in this way and think it was a dick move? Please read the spoilers below.
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 15 2013 02:22 TotalBiscuit wrote:
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You can be disappointed all you please but there's a difference between that and flat out attacking the organisation for perceived incompetence, dishonesty or whatever.
Frankly if we'd known it was acceptable to toss out the begging bowl like MVP, who evidently needed to do it despite having way more sponsors than we do, then maybe we'd have done that, but that wouldn't have solved the fact that 1/4 of our lineup is physically unfit to compete.
Ok, you may want to have your wife screen these before posting for your own safty.
On August 15 2013 02:22 TotalBiscuit wrote:
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You can be disappointed all you please but there's a difference between that and flat out attacking the organisation for perceived incompetence, dishonesty or whatever.
Frankly if we'd known it was acceptable to toss out the begging bowl like MVP, who evidently needed to do it despite having way more sponsors than we do, then maybe we'd have done that, but that wouldn't have solved the fact that 1/4 of our lineup is physically unfit to compete.
Come on son thats a cheap shot and you know it. They also have a shit ton more players than you do as well.
On August 15 2013 02:22 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
You can be disappointed all you please but there's a difference between that and flat out attacking the organisation for perceived incompetence, dishonesty or whatever.
Frankly if we'd known it was acceptable to toss out the begging bowl like MVP, who evidently needed to do it despite having way more sponsors than we do, then maybe we'd have done that, but that wouldn't have solved the fact that 1/4 of our lineup is physically unfit to compete.
Wow you just lost all my respect, firing shots at MVP like that. However I will still support the players.
On August 15 2013 03:02 geokilla wrote:
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Wow you just lost all my respect, firing shots at MVP like that. However I will still support the players.
I won't really commit to saying that the team will be 100% Korean but I would like the team to serve both TB and my hopes of bettering the state of eSports in Korea. At present many Korean SC2 players do not actually receive a salary or receive a small salary that does not really support a stable career.
- Axiom Team manager/"owner"
Frankly if we'd known it was acceptable to toss out the begging bowl like MVP, who evidently needed to do it despite having way more sponsors than we do, then maybe we'd have done that, but that wouldn't have solved the fact that 1/4 of our lineup is physically unfit to compete.
- Axiom PR guy
this was due to their international travel sponsor dropping support recently
- Team MVP
But then I'm also sure that TB knows exactly how much MVP get from their sponsors, and what the money is/can be used for as well.
I'm sure he wouldn't be making any assumptions about MVP, doing the sort of thing he hates others doing.
Mo sponsors, mo money! Let's ignore the fact that MVP is also more than just SC2, and the sponsors seem to sponsor all the MVP teams, such as the LoL teams.
I'm sure all the MVP players get mega salaries and the state of Korean SC2 is much better than it was about a year ago when Axiom was created, and teams are closing down and holding fundraisers for kicks.
irst i was shocked, the headlines should include that millenium is already replacing axiom.
so thats a big relief. I dont particulary like Axiom and TB anyhow and Millenium is a more interesting team by far. Mvp already represents the korean teams. So overall im pretty happy with the outcome.
I just dont like the way it happened. Or even that it happened at all. because it clearly didnt have to happen. The reasons i hear seem very weak to me.
It is quite nice of ATC to provide for accomodation and 1500$ for travels. Because the standard in esports is 0 money from event organizers for travels. How someone gets to the understanding that they pay everything.. its totally unexplainable to me. It was very clearly communicated.
So you tell me you enter in a competition without reading the rules properly and without sufficient players to compete if one happens to be unavailable. At least use the "joker" rule to get an additional player. That just doesnt sound like the management is very qualified.
Also complaining about travel costs... thats the business. Especially if you dont focus on a region but try to be everywhere at once.
Summed up: Bad PR and bad management for axiom.
On August 15 2013 05:28 XinSC wrote:
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Pls read TB's summaries.
You are just proving his point of people posting stuff and accusations they don't really know anything about...
They could not have known about Miya's retirement or Cranks injury, and they are certainly not accountable for travelocity screwing up so badly...
nobody cares who you could blame for the situation. Blaming the circumstances.. good management finds solutions rather than complaining about everything all the time.
Look at MVP. They dont pull out. If you are in a difficult situation, you do more to overcome it not less to evade it.
So clearly I'm the only person to take it this way. And thats not including all the people that felt this way and didn't post.
"There's an optional $4.99 subscription on the Twitch channel which gives various benefits in return"
Yeah I'm a idiot. Having a optional subscript is with "various benefits" Is not at all like asking for a donation for the benefit of getting to watch them play. It's totally not semantics or slightly different business model. Its not giving the choice to the fans whether they want to contribute extra or not. COMPLETELY Different had MVP offered a subscription that gave them various benefits including making it to the tournament for only 4.99$ that would have been ok.
Not that I think its bad to do. If people can monetize there participation in events. Or whatever it is that you provide go for it. Its just extremely hypocritical to talk down the others doing the same thing. But as a self righteous narcissist I see how this could miss you completely.
Also I agree esports is completely unlike any business other business in the world. This whole respecting your customer base thing idea I spout will never work. Here, I'll end with a cliche` about how much I'm beating him, how dumb he is and then maybe people will actually read the logic and not the name of the poster.
He's out colder then an ice cube
This guy just knocked it out of the park
This guy is dumb as a stump.
Silly you, the MVP begging/fundraising wasn't optional.
EPT
. Also I must agree it sounds a bit insulting towards MVP. The way you wrote it made it sound like look at those losers who are trying to fundraise money. I honestly don't get what's wrong with it. Having seen docu's and what not they seem like a very honest and nice team filed with passion and talent. 
Being sarcastic and ironic works better. Or when a question you don't like is addressed to you, change subject/insult someone.
best of luck to Axiom
