On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
It doesn't matter when or how you found out, it's all rooted in the fact that MLG wanted to get involved and profit from Proleague. And from what I'm reading, MLG is basically about to take over what OGN intended function. You can't help but look at it this way..
1) OGN is going to cast Prolueague. 2) MLG complain to KESPA that they, too, want to profit. 3) Kespa gives OGN the boot and replaces them with MLG.
With other tournament organizations I get the vibe that they care about the scene, and part of the community at large. But with MLG, literally everything it does is pure business. Even simple things such as releasing replays is done late so in order to hype annother MLG about to begin. All of this damage control just sounds like business PR to me as well.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
On December 07 2012 03:36 Fyodor wrote: Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
OGN seemed capable of putting out a much better product. Even though their English broadcast had some flaws, their Korean broadcast was still well done and seemed to still have top notch production values like their BW broadcasts of old. Heck, OGN's broadcast of WCS seemed way better than any of the English streams in terms of production value and professionalism. If their English broadcast was as well done as their Korean one, it would have been stellar, so it is unfortunate that it wasn't.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Am I correct in assuming that you do not have the rights to show the stuff that is produced by OGN itself (so the observing, the camera shots inside the studio, the interviews) or can KeSPA actually license more than just the right to show the games (so the replay)?
On December 07 2012 03:36 Fyodor wrote: Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
OGN seemed capable of putting out a much better product. Even though their English broadcast had some flaws, their Korean broadcast was still well done and seemed to still have top notch production values like their BW broadcasts of old. Heck, OGN's broadcast of WCS seemed way better than any of the English streams in terms of production value and professionalism. If their English broadcast was as well done as their Korean one, it would have been stellar, so it is unfortunate that it wasn't.
.......The English broadcast of WCS was produced by a Chinese team if I'm not mistaken, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
On December 07 2012 04:08 Virid wrote: Honestly, if someone would just put out a translation of the Korean cast, that'd be fine too.
Personally I dislike Korean casts and I am willing to pay a premium for an English cast. But frankly if the MLG VODs aren't ready by the time I want to watch a match I'll just hunt down the Korean VODs. Or just watch GOM's.
I for one have nothing against PPV. But if I'm going to pay I expect a high quality product and near inediate access to VODs. The little I have heard so far makes me skeptical as far as how timely those VODs will be.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:50 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:41 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:37 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
I think what happened is MLG asked for this a while ago, but Kespa is just slow to make decisions on things and didn't agree to it till recently. Therefore, they just made the decision to do what would come off best pr wise now. There's nothing wrong with MLG broadcasting proleague and if this was announced weeks in advance, then I don't think many would have an issue with it. It would have just been another MLG press release announcing proleague broadcasting and I don't think people would have been up in arms about it at all.
There's a reaction now only because everyone was kept in the dark about the english stream just days out from the first proleague match. Therefore, it's just damage control now because I think Kespa is just slow at making decisions and like to wait till the last minute on some things.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
But this twitt is from 2 days ago ? Or it's the timezones.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Yeah the right way to do it would be to use the OGN broadcast, but with low sound Korean casters (like when Tastosis cast the GSL grand finals). But that would mean OGN would have to provide and allow their content to be used by a concurrent, so...(unless the rights are owned by Kespa)
EPT
