Making this thread because half the people in DoA's thread still don't know what's going on.
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys.
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free.
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys.
Good stuff. Any way to throw money at you guys right away?
Cmon don't get fooled. MLG asked on twitter 2 days ago if they should cast proleague. They are not stepping in as the saviours now, they were in contact with KeSPA back then and may have caused OGN to get kicked out.
I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now.
So potentially free, in English and a rebroadcast in eastern time.
I really hope it is correct that they "only wanted to do a rebroadcast", when they tweeted this 2 days ago: (when OGN was still thinking they do the english broadcast)
(after what we all now about KeSPA, I'm pretty skeptical)
I don't mind if i have to pay for the stream (as long as it's priced decently), if the stream is English or Korean, but rebroadcast is what isn't for me. So no thanks to that. Although, i guess its great for Americans out there to watch rebroadcast instead of live due time differences.
I'll stick with Live and Korean cast nevertheless. :-)
I wonder if MLG knew what they were getting themselves into when they became kespa partners. Do they even know what the hell kespa want to do? I just hope they don't become as much of a joke as kespa are right now.
Hopefully MLG can pull this off but I honestly would be fine if they just ignored it. (stop trying to be heroes) KeSPA will probably charge a nice price for the streaming rights and with it PPV. Casting will be a pain since this will be done via the MLG studio and not on site.
KeSPA giving OGN the boot IS because of MLG I bet. KeSPA probably saw a chance when MLG showed interest for a rebroadcast and pulled the plug for OGN. We should learn by our old mistakes and leave KeSPA alone, they haven't changed a bit and now they are more awful than ever.
On December 07 2012 01:07 MyFirstProbe wrote: Who will cast it, will there be vods, so many questions but hopefully it will be clear when the proleague starts
This is my question. Additionally, with the rebroadcast plans I wonder if it will be from replays or just with the footage from the event.
IF mlg somehow does this it should be casted by axslav + axeltoss.
So much conspiracy bullshit just because kespa + mlg are supposed to be the bad guys here. Kespa was OGNs biggest horse for like forever, now look a their fucking schedule it has lol everyday of the week, I'd be pissed too, especially if my new partner showed interest in exposing my content to a huge audience at a more viewer friendly time.
Gogo mlg, don't let the hate get to you, you guys are doing great as always
I don't get it. They wanted to rebroadcast during prime time? Does that mean OGN was going to cast it live in English and then MLG recasts it with their own casters?
Seems like a poor decision on Proleague's part to not have had an English stream setup from the beginning. Most of the fans are international not Korean. Seems like bad business sense to me.
On December 07 2012 02:12 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Seems like a poor decision on Proleague's part to not have had an English stream setup from the beginning. Most of the fans are international not Korean. Seems like bad business sense to me.
I'm sure they get more viewers on TV than on stream
And DoA ? He leave IGN because he want to cast Kespa SCII games. He want to live is dream . He was going to cast the first game of a foreigner team in Proleague and now he will just cast some LoL matchs ....
I hope it's true that they didn't have any part in OGN getting fucked. I'm a bit pessimistic about it, but for now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
On December 07 2012 02:10 Gentso wrote: I don't get it. They wanted to rebroadcast during prime time? Does that mean OGN was going to cast it live in English and then MLG recasts it with their own casters?
OGN has is not doing an english cast. MLG is likely trying recast the raw video file and have casters talk over it.
Take heart, comrades. Soon we'll all be happily living in our EGMLGKeSPAMonsterKingstonSteelseries Sc2 bubble and will have forgotten all this silly drama about stratification and egalitarianism.
On December 07 2012 02:06 Lorch wrote: IF mlg somehow does this it should be casted by axslav + axeltoss.
So much conspiracy bullshit just because kespa + mlg are supposed to be the bad guys here. Kespa was OGNs biggest horse for like forever, now look a their fucking schedule it has lol everyday of the week, I'd be pissed too, especially if my new partner showed interest in exposing my content to a huge audience at a more viewer friendly time.
Gogo mlg, don't let the hate get to you, you guys are doing great as always
If I read the past threads correctly, LoL was cast on weekdays and not SC2 because KeSPA wanted to stream the SC2 themselves, not because OGN didn't want to stream SC2.
KeSPA has been discriminating against foreigners in all of their business ventures for far too long. Yes, Korean worked for BW. But that kind of "If it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude stifles growth. In my opinion, we should be looking at it this way: "If it ain't perfect, make it better." Give us a quality, English, live broadcast for the love of God. The foreign scene provides WAY too many fans to be ignored at this point, and is growing much more quickly than SC2 in Korea. GSL got it right when they started broadcasting in English pretty much from day 1, even pre-SC2 days. COME ON, KeSPA, GET IT TOGETHER.
On December 07 2012 02:14 MinzySC2 wrote: I hope it's true that they didn't have any part in OGN getting fucked. I'm a bit pessimistic about it, but for now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
From what I'm reading, MLG was sticking their dick where it didn't belong in the first place. Seems like a simple cause and effect to me.
On December 07 2012 02:16 supernovamaniac wrote: If MLG "rebroadcasts" it at prime time, does this mean that people are free to re-stream PL(OGN) live?
On December 07 2012 02:27 vesicular wrote: Well, if they can cast it in english that's great, but I'd rather watch the Korean commentary anyway.
I would rather it be cast in prime time, and was streamed directly to my Xbox, because I am demanding and look to the future.(IPL looked so bad ass on my TV)
On December 07 2012 02:16 supernovamaniac wrote: If MLG "rebroadcasts" it at prime time, does this mean that people are free to re-stream PL(OGN) live?
No, that would be illegal and immoral.
Yeah. I agree re-streaming it for free, is fucking disgusting! + Show Spoiler +
He did not say anything about watching the restream tho ^^
On December 07 2012 02:16 supernovamaniac wrote: If MLG "rebroadcasts" it at prime time, does this mean that people are free to re-stream PL(OGN) live?
With MLG now sticking their nose in, I see them possibly shutting down the re-streams for whatever reason. Gotta keep eSports as small as possible after all.
So, instead of having casters in Korea cast the games live and on location we're going to have people halfway across the world cast the games a day late? Good job KeSPA, OGN and MLG...
Is it really that hard to have casters on location, a live stream and timely and well organized VODs? It's not like Gretchen has been doing it for 2+ years...
On December 07 2012 02:27 vesicular wrote: Well, if they can cast it in english that's great, but I'd rather watch the Korean commentary anyway.
I would rather it be cast in prime time, and was streamed directly to my Xbox, because I am demanding and look to the future.(IPL looked so bad ass on my TV)
TV + computer + HDMI cable. Really no need for an XBOX
On December 07 2012 02:16 supernovamaniac wrote: If MLG "rebroadcasts" it at prime time, does this mean that people are free to re-stream PL(OGN) live?
With MLG now sticking their nose in, I see them possibly shutting down the re-streams for whatever reason. Gotta keep eSports as small as possible after all.
If they kept everything from Korean cast (live audience camera, player camera, instant player interviews right after match, etc), I would be fine with MLG broadcasts.
However, if MLG only obtains the replays and casts those, I, for sure, won't be tuning in to the English cast. I would rather have the whole experience and have someone else cast it.
On December 07 2012 02:39 Fischbacher wrote: So, instead of having casters in Korea cast the games live and on location we're going to have people halfway across the world cast the games a day late? Good job KeSPA, OGN and MLG...
Is it really that hard to have casters on location, a live stream and timely and well organized VODs? It's not like Gretchen has been doing it for 2+ years...
On December 07 2012 02:27 vesicular wrote: Well, if they can cast it in english that's great, but I'd rather watch the Korean commentary anyway.
I would rather it be cast in prime time, and was streamed directly to my Xbox, because I am demanding and look to the future.(IPL looked so bad ass on my TV)
TV + computer + HDMI cable. Really no need for an XBOX
We don't know how it's going to work.
Maybe medium-long term MLG and KeSPA can work out a caster booth on-site.
On December 07 2012 02:39 Fischbacher wrote: So, instead of having casters in Korea cast the games live and on location we're going to have people halfway across the world cast the games a day late? Good job KeSPA, OGN and MLG...
Is it really that hard to have casters on location, a live stream and timely and well organized VODs? It's not like Gretchen has been doing it for 2+ years...
On December 07 2012 02:27 vesicular wrote: Well, if they can cast it in english that's great, but I'd rather watch the Korean commentary anyway.
I would rather it be cast in prime time, and was streamed directly to my Xbox, because I am demanding and look to the future.(IPL looked so bad ass on my TV)
TV + computer + HDMI cable. Really no need for an XBOX
Been there, done that, already have it set up. Was better on my Xbox with IPL, with more consistant video quality(my internet is Fios, so I can pull down all the 1080ps) and took 10 seconds to get going. Its been 2 years, I want an app for my Xbox, Roku or an Apple TV.
On December 07 2012 02:39 Fischbacher wrote: So, instead of having casters in Korea cast the games live and on location we're going to have people halfway across the world cast the games a day late? Good job KeSPA, OGN and MLG...
Is it really that hard to have casters on location, a live stream and timely and well organized VODs? It's not like Gretchen has been doing it for 2+ years...
On December 07 2012 02:32 Plansix wrote:
On December 07 2012 02:27 vesicular wrote: Well, if they can cast it in english that's great, but I'd rather watch the Korean commentary anyway.
I would rather it be cast in prime time, and was streamed directly to my Xbox, because I am demanding and look to the future.(IPL looked so bad ass on my TV)
TV + computer + HDMI cable. Really no need for an XBOX
We don't know how it's going to work.
Maybe medium-long term MLG and KeSPA can work out a caster booth on-site.
The bit where MLGAdam mentions that they want to leverage ProLeague content to have nightly content over the week is what makes me nervous. PL runs 4 nights a week and in a bad time-zone. If they casted the games live, had the VODs behind a paywall right away and re-streamed a game every day I would be pretty happy, but from the sound of it all they are planing on is to restream stuff on a pretty significant tape delay.
OGN had a plan to have a proper stream for this week-end. Whatever medium to long range KeSPA and MLG have it's too late already.
This seems too bad, people like me want to have english comentary LIVE. And if most people cant watch it live, whats the difference between watching a VOD of the live broadcast than a delayed live broadcast of replays ?
On December 07 2012 02:56 MadJack wrote: This seems too bad, people like me want to have english comentary LIVE. And if most people cant watch it live, whats the difference between watching a VOD of the live broadcast than a delayed live broadcast of replays ?
A lot.
No cheerfuls, no player cameras, no player interviews (on the spot), etc.
Maybe medium-long term MLG and KeSPA can work out a caster booth on-site.
Maybe short-medium-long term they can hire doa to do it on site, he's obviously keen.
But that would require cooperating with other organizations and helping to grow eSports... Definitely not MLG or KeSPA's MO.
What is this bullshit about mlg and kespa not growing esports? Are you blind to what kespa did in korea with brood war, are you so ignorant that you don't see what they build in the last 10+ years. kespa teams are by far the most professionally run pro gaming teams in the world, they have the biggest corporate sponsors and the most professionally run leagues in terms of admins/map makers/format etc. pp. MLG is the only old school NA organization that is still around. CGS went down, CPL is long gone, yet MLG still stands even though it was founded in 02. They had progamers on dr pepper bottles, they had non-gaming related sponsors like doritos or old spice in 08/09 where esports was supposedly in it's darkest hour. They were the first na organization to pick up starcraft 2 and help making it the huge phenomenon it is today.
As a matter of the fact MLG and KESPA have done more to grow esports than pretty much any other still existing organization within esports, so to say that they are not interested in growth, when they have brought so much growth to their respective regions, it's sooo ignorant. I don't know why people think so black/white and try to find the bad guys...
On December 07 2012 02:56 MadJack wrote: This seems too bad, people like me want to have english comentary LIVE. And if most people cant watch it live, whats the difference between watching a VOD of the live broadcast than a delayed live broadcast of replays ?
A lot.
No cheerfuls, no player cameras, no player interviews (on the spot), etc.
Maybe medium-long term MLG and KeSPA can work out a caster booth on-site.
Maybe short-medium-long term they can hire doa to do it on site, he's obviously keen.
But that would require cooperating with other organizations and helping to grow eSports... Definitely not MLG or KeSPA's MO.
What is this bullshit about mlg and kespa not growing esports? Are you blind to what kespa did in korea with brood war, are you so ignorant that you don't see what they build in the last 10+ years. kespa teams are by far the most professionally run pro gaming teams in the world, they have the biggest corporate sponsors and the most professionally run leagues in terms of admins/map makers/format etc. pp. MLG is the only old school NA organization that is still around. CGS went down, CPL is long gone, yet MLG still stands even though it was founded in 02. They had progamers on dr pepper bottles, they had non-gaming related sponsors like doritos or old spice in 08/09 where esports was supposedly in it's darkest hour. They were the first na organization to pick up starcraft 2 and help making it the huge phenomenon it is today.
As a matter of the fact MLG and KESPA have done more to grow esports than pretty much any other still existing organization within esports, so to say that they are not interested in growth, when they have brought so much growth to their respective regions, it's sooo ignorant. I don't know why people think so black/white and try to find the bad guys...
It's a joke about a post made here a month or so ago talking about evil starcraft organizations. Relax there kiddo.
I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
On December 07 2012 03:03 sickoota wrote: I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
On December 07 2012 03:03 sickoota wrote: I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
That's what VODs are for ^^
Of course they know that, but it's all business for them. They saw an opportunity and they went for it, and as a result they screwed OGN over.
On December 07 2012 03:03 sickoota wrote: I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
That's what VODs are for ^^
Of course they know that, but it's all business for them. They saw an opportunity and they went for it, and as a result they screwed OGN over.
Yeah it really doesn't sound like MLG was at fault at all here.
If you actually read Doa's thread, Kespa was the one who started increasing the restrictions on the English casting to unreasonable levels. Maybe MLG's offer to rebroadcast PL in English at prime time was the alternative that Kespa secretly wanted and they broke off talks with OGN since they saw a better offer (because MLG would not compete for Korean attention due to the broadcast time), but that isn't MLG's fault - at least not directly.
I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place. This isn't really a conspiracy theory as much as just what makes most business sense for MLG.
On December 07 2012 03:03 sickoota wrote: I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
That's what VODs are for ^^
Of course they know that, but it's all business for them. They saw an opportunity and they went for it, and as a result they screwed OGN over.
Yeah it really doesn't sound like MLG was at fault at all here.
If you actually read Doa's thread, Kespa was the one who started increasing the restrictions on the English casting to unreasonable levels. Maybe MLG's offer to rebroadcast PL in English at prime time was the alternative that Kespa secretly wanted and they broke off talks with OGN since they saw a better offer (because MLG would not compete for Korean attention due to the broadcast time), but that isn't MLG's fault - at least not directly.
What i'm saying is that MLG IS at fault... Read post above mine to have it put in other words.
On December 07 2012 01:33 Grettin wrote: I don't mind if i have to pay for the stream (as long as it's priced decently), if the stream is English or Korean, but rebroadcast is what isn't for me. So no thanks to that. Although, i guess its great for Americans out there to watch rebroadcast instead of live due time differences.
I'll stick with Live and Korean cast nevertheless. :-)
yeah, staying up till like 5-6 am or later is not really DoAble for a lot of us.
Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
On December 07 2012 03:36 Fyodor wrote: Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
At least OGN was doing the broadcast live. By the looks of it we won't have a livestream with MLG. Talk about a fuckin joke, EG-TL joins proleague and we won't have any legal means to watch it in English until at least a day later. MLG better get their shit towther fast, because if they don't have something ready by Saturday they will take a big PR hit.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
On December 07 2012 03:03 sickoota wrote: I would really like a rebroadcast, I always wish GOM did one during EST hours, est people can't really stay up unless you have absolutely nothing going on the next day.
That's what VODs are for ^^
Of course they know that, but it's all business for them. They saw an opportunity and they went for it, and as a result they screwed OGN over.
Yeah it really doesn't sound like MLG was at fault at all here.
If you actually read Doa's thread, Kespa was the one who started increasing the restrictions on the English casting to unreasonable levels. Maybe MLG's offer to rebroadcast PL in English at prime time was the alternative that Kespa secretly wanted and they broke off talks with OGN since they saw a better offer (because MLG would not compete for Korean attention due to the broadcast time), but that isn't MLG's fault - at least not directly.
I agree. MLG sounds like they're definitely helping overall, rather than hurting.
(But don't forget! MLG has extended series and PPV for a few special events, and so we have to assume everything they do has evil, evil, evil intentions )
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such by virtue of the fact that money could be made.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
It doesn't matter when or how you found out, it's all rooted in the fact that MLG wanted to get involved and profit from Proleague. And from what I'm reading, MLG is basically about to take over what OGN intended function. You can't help but look at it this way..
1) OGN is going to cast Prolueague. 2) MLG complain to KESPA that they, too, want to profit. 3) Kespa gives OGN the boot and replaces them with MLG.
With other tournament organizations I get the vibe that they care about the scene, and part of the community at large. But with MLG, literally everything it does is pure business. Even simple things such as releasing replays is done late so in order to hype annother MLG about to begin. All of this damage control just sounds like business PR to me as well.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
On December 07 2012 03:36 Fyodor wrote: Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
OGN seemed capable of putting out a much better product. Even though their English broadcast had some flaws, their Korean broadcast was still well done and seemed to still have top notch production values like their BW broadcasts of old. Heck, OGN's broadcast of WCS seemed way better than any of the English streams in terms of production value and professionalism. If their English broadcast was as well done as their Korean one, it would have been stellar, so it is unfortunate that it wasn't.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Am I correct in assuming that you do not have the rights to show the stuff that is produced by OGN itself (so the observing, the camera shots inside the studio, the interviews) or can KeSPA actually license more than just the right to show the games (so the replay)?
On December 07 2012 03:36 Fyodor wrote: Don't know why people like OGN so much when they put out such an embarrassing product. They insulted the global audience, KeSPA's reputation and everyone involved.
It's just a matter of fact that MLG is better suited to carry an English broadcast. OGN's own fault they are losing the broadcast rights.
OGN seemed capable of putting out a much better product. Even though their English broadcast had some flaws, their Korean broadcast was still well done and seemed to still have top notch production values like their BW broadcasts of old. Heck, OGN's broadcast of WCS seemed way better than any of the English streams in terms of production value and professionalism. If their English broadcast was as well done as their Korean one, it would have been stellar, so it is unfortunate that it wasn't.
.......The English broadcast of WCS was produced by a Chinese team if I'm not mistaken, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
On December 07 2012 04:08 Virid wrote: Honestly, if someone would just put out a translation of the Korean cast, that'd be fine too.
Personally I dislike Korean casts and I am willing to pay a premium for an English cast. But frankly if the MLG VODs aren't ready by the time I want to watch a match I'll just hunt down the Korean VODs. Or just watch GOM's.
I for one have nothing against PPV. But if I'm going to pay I expect a high quality product and near inediate access to VODs. The little I have heard so far makes me skeptical as far as how timely those VODs will be.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:50 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:41 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:37 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
I think what happened is MLG asked for this a while ago, but Kespa is just slow to make decisions on things and didn't agree to it till recently. Therefore, they just made the decision to do what would come off best pr wise now. There's nothing wrong with MLG broadcasting proleague and if this was announced weeks in advance, then I don't think many would have an issue with it. It would have just been another MLG press release announcing proleague broadcasting and I don't think people would have been up in arms about it at all.
There's a reaction now only because everyone was kept in the dark about the english stream just days out from the first proleague match. Therefore, it's just damage control now because I think Kespa is just slow at making decisions and like to wait till the last minute on some things.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Yeah the right way to do it would be to use the OGN broadcast, but with low sound Korean casters (like when Tastosis cast the GSL grand finals). But that would mean OGN would have to provide and allow their content to be used by a concurrent, so...(unless the rights are owned by Kespa)
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
MLG considering (or having an opportunity to produce) an English Proleague cast doesn't mean they were aware of OGN being forced to cancel their plans for one.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
That's my fear. If they just cast from replay then MLG's broadcast holds no value to me, paid or free. The crowd's and player's reactions is what makes a live event a live event. Oh well, as long as the Korean VODs are accessible I can still watch that.
Anyone knows a way to learn Korean in two days? I already speak French, if that helps speed up the process :-P
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
I'm fine with that. Heck, that's actually what I prefer. I'm an American kid who needs to wake up at 5:45 for school. Watching a tournament broadcasted at Korean time just isn't possible for me.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:50 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:41 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:37 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
I think what happened is MLG asked for this a while ago, but Kespa is just slow to make decisions on things and didn't agree to it till recently. Therefore, they just made the decision to do what would come off best pr wise now. There's nothing wrong with MLG broadcasting proleague and if this was announced weeks in advance, then I don't think many would have an issue with it. It would have just been another MLG press release announcing proleague broadcasting and I don't think people would have been up in arms about it at all.
There's a reaction now only because everyone was kept in the dark about the english stream just days out from the first proleague match. Therefore, it's just damage control now because I think Kespa is just slow at making decisions and like to wait till the last minute on some things.
You still are just concocting a conspiracy theory that the "PR damage control" is a lie, without having anything to back your story up. I guess now you've gone from "MLG stood to make money" and "MLG was the mastermind" to "Kespa is slow to make decisions and now its just a bit of PR by MLG". Just realize that guilty until proven innocent attitudes like yours don't do the forums or community any good
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
Perhaps these details haven't been worked out yet, and I apologize if this has been asked before, but do you know if this is planned to be a free service or a PPV model (or somewhat in between)?
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
I'm fine with that. Heck, that's actually what I prefer. I'm an American kid who needs to wake up at 5:45 for school. Watching a tournament broadcasted at Korean time just isn't possible for me.
My issue with that is that there won't be VODs for at least 24h after the matches are done. I nearly never watch GSL live, but I am willing to pay a lot of money to watch it as soon as it's convenient for me to do so. That's what I was hoping to do for ProLeague.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
So there is no plans to have either a live stream or timely VODs? And if not, is that something you guys are looking into for future rounds?
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:50 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:41 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:37 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
I think what happened is MLG asked for this a while ago, but Kespa is just slow to make decisions on things and didn't agree to it till recently. Therefore, they just made the decision to do what would come off best pr wise now. There's nothing wrong with MLG broadcasting proleague and if this was announced weeks in advance, then I don't think many would have an issue with it. It would have just been another MLG press release announcing proleague broadcasting and I don't think people would have been up in arms about it at all.
There's a reaction now only because everyone was kept in the dark about the english stream just days out from the first proleague match. Therefore, it's just damage control now because I think Kespa is just slow at making decisions and like to wait till the last minute on some things.
You still are just concocting a conspiracy theory that the "PR damage control" is a lie, without having anything to back your story up. I guess now you've gone from "MLG stood to make money" and "MLG was the mastermind" to "Kespa is slow to make decisions and now its just a bit of PR by MLG". Just realize that guilty until proven innocent attitudes like yours don't do the forums or community any good
No, I just like to use critical thinking instead of believing everything an organization says at face value. MLG adam tweeted about selling people tinfoil hats at MLG. I think he means he wants to sell people common business sense at next MLG.
I like MLG and have always defended them against the haters since I prefer MLG over euro tourneys like DH because they bring the best KRs to events. However, I'm not blind enough to believe everything they say.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
Why? Do they play on the "not local battle.net server"? Otherwise all they need is an korean account.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
Why? Do they play on the "not local battle.net server"? Otherwise all they need is an korean account.
They way SC2 syncs the game for all players/observers, this will cause some lag for players.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
Why? Do they play on the "not local battle.net server"? Otherwise all they need is an korean account.
Yes, because it's a good idea to have an OBS based in North America or Europe for a game played in Korea... That wouldn't cause any issues at all...
The only way for MLG to produce a cast on the level of what GOM does (or on the level that OGN could have done) is to have an entire producing team on the ground. Hopefully that is in their short to medium term plans (as in, before round 2-3). Otherwise this news is a major, major bummer.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
On December 07 2012 04:37 NMRemorse wrote: Wait...this was going to be PPV? : - (). I was looking forward to following this event zzz. Cnt afford PPV another event ...besides GSL-HD.
It was going to be free stream, 5$/month for all OGN VODs from what I understood from DoA. No idea what MLG is going to do, but it looks like they will either re-stream OGN's stream and commentate over it or cast from replays. Either way, probably not worth paying for.
On December 07 2012 04:02 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Still sad to see OGN get cheated out of Proleague, but at least Kespa's control-freak ways didn't cheat us all out of a decent English stream.
All that's confirmed so far is a tape delayed stream. AFAIK MLG hasn't indicated that they would have anything live.
For all we know it could even be casted from replays, depending on who of KeSPA and OGN owns the actual broadcast (as opposed to broadcasting rights) -_-
I honestly don't see them being cast any other way if MLG goes ahead with the English cast. Since if they could voice over the OGN cast they would have to mute the entire stream and there would be no game sound. So at the very least OGN would need to provide them with everything except the Koreans caster sound. This is a huge clusterfuck at the last minute.
Or have MLG in the game as an observer?
That would require MLG to have someone on the ground in Korea.
Why? Do they play on the "not local battle.net server"? Otherwise all they need is an korean account.
They way SC2 syncs the game for all players/observers, this will cause some lag for players.
I actually prefer korean commentators when I'm watching SPL. Something about it feels right. Maybe it's just the nostalgia from brood war. Staying up until 4:00am to hear plaguuu is something special from my college/HS days.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big.
Here's why I don't believe it. You're not using your clout to move Kespa off kr television. That statement is just a red herring. It's still going to be on kr television. This issue is about an english stream over the internet, not KR television.
Also, MLG Lee tweeted about asking if people wanted an english broadcast of proleague a couple of days ago. That is a hint of what was to come, but your statement makes it sound like this came out of the blue for you. Was MLG Lee a prophet then and could see the future? Otherwise that would be a pretty random thing to tweet about unless he had insider knowledge of the future.
On December 07 2012 03:50 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:41 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:37 Doodsmack wrote:
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Exactly, which is why it's the strongest piece of evidence. What has MLG done to lead you to believe money isn't their motivation in everything they do? I have nothing against MLG making money since these leagues aren't charity. Just funny to see some people think MLG's goal isn't to make money. Sounds pretty naive to me.
What about MLG's need to make money leads to an assumption of corruption? All businesses need to make money, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that decisions which could theoretically be explained by corruption/conspiracy should be interpreted as such.
Where did I say anything about corruption? There's nothing corrupt about what MLG did. It's just a smart business decision for them. The MLG/Kespa relationship is pretty one sided in Kespa's favour right now, but getting to broadcast proleague will go a long way to equalizing their partnership.
I should use the word conspiracy instead of corruption. You're alleging that there was a conspiracy on the part of MLG to push out OGN and get the English broadcast and make it appear as if Kespa's relationship with OGN broke down and then MLG stepped in. Your explicit argument is that MLG stood to make money off a conspiracy therefore the conspiracy occurred.
I think what happened is MLG asked for this a while ago, but Kespa is just slow to make decisions on things and didn't agree to it till recently. Therefore, they just made the decision to do what would come off best pr wise now. There's nothing wrong with MLG broadcasting proleague and if this was announced weeks in advance, then I don't think many would have an issue with it. It would have just been another MLG press release announcing proleague broadcasting and I don't think people would have been up in arms about it at all.
There's a reaction now only because everyone was kept in the dark about the english stream just days out from the first proleague match. Therefore, it's just damage control now because I think Kespa is just slow at making decisions and like to wait till the last minute on some things.
You still are just concocting a conspiracy theory that the "PR damage control" is a lie, without having anything to back your story up. I guess now you've gone from "MLG stood to make money" and "MLG was the mastermind" to "Kespa is slow to make decisions and now its just a bit of PR by MLG". Just realize that guilty until proven innocent attitudes like yours don't do the forums or community any good
No, I just like to use critical thinking instead of believing everything an organization says at face value. MLG adam tweeted about selling people tinfoil hats at MLG. I think he means he wants to sell people common business sense at next MLG.
I like MLG and have always defended them against the haters since I prefer MLG over euro tourneys like DH because they bring the best KRs to events. However, I'm not blind enough to believe everything they say.
Still no evidence or solid reasoning behind your argument lol. There's no critical thinking involved in assumption that big companies are prone to lie to the public in order to cover up their greed.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
So basically.. MLG doesnt want to do a Live stream..only an English cast rebroadcast at American times for Americans only?... Well..not paying for that..
No point paying just for VODs.. Half the fun is watching live. Seems like MLG only catering to Americans..
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
I'm sure MLGLee know full well what he meant when he said "Proleague matches streamed in english". We're not a naive as you think.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
I'm sure MLGLee know full well what he meant when he said "Proleague matches streamed in english". We're not a naive as you think.
Lee reports to me, so I would be really alarmed if Lee was doing something of that magnitude without express permission from me.
I hate it when business' "Try" to do things. When it is your profession, you just do it and get it done. You "try" to do things when you are in elementary school.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative.
I'm sure MLGLee know full well what he meant when he said "Proleague matches streamed in english". We're not a naive as you think.
you do know that MLG isn't this evil organization right? i'd swear its like MLG killed 50 top sc2 players with the shit they get some time.
On December 07 2012 04:57 Grimmyman123 wrote: MLG, don't try - Do. There is no try.
I hate it when business' "Try" to do things. When it is your profession, you just do it and get it done. You "try" to do things when you are in elementary school.
Wow, whats with everyone being a douchebag nowadays?
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
Understandable, but KESPA doesn't get much of the benefit of the doubt from the foreign SC community anymore, and frankly, I don't think they deserve it. This type of last minute change that screws over the foreign community... is typical of KESPA run events. Maybe they're changing, but yeah, color me skeptical.
On December 07 2012 01:12 KirA_TheGreaT wrote: rebroadcast with english subtitles would be nice
Subtitles is more work than having two people give their own thoughts on it in english and live emotions are great as well. Reading subtitles is a pain and usually full of translation errors too ...
On December 07 2012 04:57 Grimmyman123 wrote: MLG, don't try - Do. There is no try.
I hate it when business' "Try" to do things. When it is your profession, you just do it and get it done. You "try" to do things when you are in elementary school.
Wow, whats with everyone being a douchebag nowadays?
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
Tbh, whether or not KeSPA had good intentions, the fact that everything related to the English stream looks so disorganized with ONE day to go before SPL starts is ridiculous.,
The fact that it looks like there won't be a live English stream ready for Saturday in itself is alarming and says a lot about how much KeSPA cares about foreign viewers... All we can go by is what is publicly available, and so far it's not pretty.
If someone has a good quality livestream with a decent VOD service this week end then we'll start giving KeSPA the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't even really have to be good, just not sub-WCG >.>
Will you be working overtime tonight Adam (Korean morning/afternoon) until you have an Answer for us (Fans) for the EG-TL vs KT Rolster match might be able to be streamed (in english, live) tomorrow evening? 03:30 GMT (+00:00)
On December 07 2012 04:57 Grimmyman123 wrote: MLG, don't try - Do. There is no try.
I hate it when business' "Try" to do things. When it is your profession, you just do it and get it done. You "try" to do things when you are in elementary school.
I'm sure they won't take no for an answer thanks to you. You obviously know nothing about business, if you're going to spew things like that.
MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the bat. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the back. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
Not gonna happen. MLG and GOM are very sour right now and competing on every front.
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous!
That's the least possible outcome. Tastosis don't even cast GSTL which is in direct PPV competition with Proleague. GOM+IPL and MLG+Kespa have seemed at odds more than once (Rain in MLG/GSL, ESF players in OSL,Kespa players in GSL, Kespa players in IPL). Why would GOM let their most valuable asset with respect to English audiences cast the direct competition?
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
What does KeSPA have to lose when anyone does an english broadcast? Nothing. They simply set a fee for it and let the one doing it worry about the cost and making his own profit. If that wasnt clear between OGN and KeSPA then maybe its their fault for NOT making it clear a long time ago?
In any case we are living in the time of the INTERNET where local organizations should not be able to dictate the "rest of the world" and their way of treating their players seems a bit restrictive for this age. Opening up new sources of profit should be actively sought after by any company and KeSPA seems to be willing to do the opposite by their heavy handed aproach. Blizzard didnt look that good either when they were trying to bust the korean market after the release of SC2 ... anyone bullying others is going to look bad.
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the bat. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
If you start involving the GOM casters you get on some deep waters. It would require a lot more then just a partnership. And if I read the thing with the MLG Champ tournament, KeSPA didn't want it to be PPV but free. (MLGs decision)
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the bat. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
I don't think Tastosis, Wolf and Khaldor would give up their Gom jobs to cast Proleague, and it doesn't seem feasible for them to cast GSL, GSTL and Proleague. In fact, it seems nearly impossible.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
Eh there's some history regarding that organisation outside of this particular deal as well, let's not pretend any wrong doing would be completely out of the blue. Add to that DOA's take on proceedings and it would be a little strange not to worry about what's going on there.
That said, can't fault MLG for trying to be competitive and stepping in here, as a business it'd naive to think you wouldn't be in it for yourselves first. Still kind of sucks though, I'm sure you can understand the sentiment. Let's hope this works out and you can become a more positive influence on your Korean counterparts, but for now, meh. This could have been done better.
I thought Blizzard had this thing with SC2 that eSport organization like GOM and KeSPA are required to have an free English stream (think the crappy free 240p stream GOM offers) ??
On December 07 2012 05:16 ref4 wrote: I thought Blizzard had this thing with SC2 that eSport organization like GOM and KeSPA are required to have an free English stream (think the crappy free 240p stream GOM offers) ??
Nha you can get past it via giving out VODs of the event 7days after. At least thats what MLG did.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
It is flattering that we are thought to have enough clout to move KESPA off of Korean television, but unfortunately (for us) we're not that big. We honestly found out about it this morning with DOA's post. I think @esca is the one who tweeted the thread at us. I don't know what happened with OGN and KESPA, that is their business. We have a MOU with KESPA to work together, but our businesses are not intertwined so we're certainly not privy to everything that goes on.
It is 3AM in Korea, we're waiting to talk to people as well.
If MLG folks have any spine, any sense of right and wrong, they'd reject any Kespa broadcast offers for streaming now because of the way Kespa's doing business.
I doubt that'll be the case as having a Proleague stream and Kespa players at MLG events is quite lucrative, but that doesn't mean one can't hope
Why are you guys assuming KESPA did anything wrong? How does anyone know (myself included) what happened behind closed doors with OGN? There is obviously a long business history there, I would assume something happened behind closed doors. Everything now is just speculation, but I don't think it is right to point fingers.
Because of the history of KESPA. I mean, if you need any proof from recent events, just take a look at the entire KESPA/GOM dealie just a few months ago which really only got resolved because ESF/GOM slammed the door in their face.
I don’t see how this is a bad thing. If i understood correctly they decided not to give the stream licen to ogn. Also from mlg post it seems the ppv modell that was used before on the mlg/proleuge event was because ogn had the licen.
This means ogn one is the one forcing kespa not being able to work with each other. Mlg tweets also seem to suggest MLg,kespa and Eg-Tl want free stream. It seems ogn didn’t want to apply to this term. So its basically looks like ogn want to make money and enforce people to pay for the English stream.
Also if i am not wrong kespa is built up by different sponsors that like EG and team liquid want exposure. Seeing the bad job OGN did last time when they hade the English stream i don’t se why they should get it again and take money for it that goes to them self and not anyone else. So if OGN dont have the english stream then we get it for free and we will se allot of free events with kespa and other companys.
TLDR: Kespa want a free English stream for the foreign viewers and OGN don’t seem to comply with this change and was taken away the license to have the English stream. The reason the mlg event with proleague was a ppv model and not free was because Ogn had the Licen for the English stream. If OGN don’t have the English stream, Kespa is free to work with other companies and stream content for free. How is this a bad thing for us and the sc2 scene ????????????????
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
That said, can't fault MLG for trying to be competitive and stepping in here, as a business it'd naive to think you wouldn't be in it for yourselves first. Still kind of sucks though, I'm sure you can understand the sentiment. Let's hope this works out and you can become a more positive influence on your Korean counterparts, but for now, meh. This could have been done better.
They would silly not to try and get the rights to re-stream PL.
It's a great opportunity for MLG if it all works out.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
Disappointing if they don't have live english commentary, a re broadcast for US/EU times seems fine and I'm sure you can run a million adds with how long pro league has breaks between games.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
OGN was going to offer a free 480P English stream. PPV was for the HD stream and VODs. So essentially the same kind of set-up that GOM has.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
On December 07 2012 06:06 Tminus____ wrote: I hope the games are being cast LIVE and put on loop as a rebroadcast. Otherwise its back to live report threads and twitter.
On December 07 2012 06:07 mrRoflpwn wrote: If there is no OGN english stream then I will simply watch the korean stream. I refuse to support MLG. I hate powerplay moves.
Wait... then how you can watch KeSPA (or basically any organization)'s content?
On December 07 2012 06:06 Tminus____ wrote: I hope the games are being cast LIVE and put on loop as a rebroadcast. Otherwise its back to live report threads and twitter.
Should still be able to watch the Koren OGN stream, dunno about the games played during the week tho.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
OGN produces the Sat/Sun proleague matches. That means MLG will need to work with them to be allowed to restream. Considering that OGN learned today that they don't have the right to do an English stream, I can't see that negotiation going well.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Sat/Sun games are casted from replay, tbh.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
OGN produces the Sat/Sun proleague matches. That means MLG will need to work with them to be allowed to restream. Considering that OGN learned today that they don't have the right to do an English stream, I can't see that negotiation going well.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Sat/Sun games are casted from replay, tbh.
There is actually no benefit for kespa to have a english stream that is PPV. You have to count in the fact that Teams like Eg despise ppv moddel since they get there money as sponsors exposure. Having a free quality stream with free vods is better for everyone except OGN ,
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
OGN produces the Sat/Sun proleague matches. That means MLG will need to work with them to be allowed to restream. Considering that OGN learned today that they don't have the right to do an English stream, I can't see that negotiation going well.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Sat/Sun games are casted from replay, tbh.
There is actually no benefit for kespa to have a english stream that is PPV. You have to count in the fact that Teams like Eg despise ppv moddel since they get there money as sponsors exposure. Having a free quality stream with free vods is better for everyone except OGN ,
If PVP means decent production value and an actual live stream then it's good for the fans.
I'll gladly pay for something of the level GOM does, and I'll definitively not watch some basement production casted from replay, no matter how free it is.
On December 07 2012 05:51 Andrew2658 wrote: As long as it is not cast from replays, so we can see the atmosphere of the event. I'll be extremely happy to watch.
Not just casted live, but casted in-studio. It makes such a huge difference, and I really don't see how MLG can provide.
the dispute seem to be that OGN want a PPV English stream and Kespa wanting a free one. OGN is the one in the wrong in this dispute but doa post is missleding .
What are you saying?
OGN would have a FREE English casted stream for their stream on weekends. (Vods and HD would require a fee)
You are the one who's misleading I'm afraid.
so this means if somone else have the english stream the vods and HD would be free. Also this enlgish licen to ogn forces other companys that work with kespa to pay an extra fee to OGN since they have the exclusive of it . So if OGn dont have it the prolegue/mlg can be a free event.
Sorry but I don't understand what you are saying.
What i mean is that OGN seem to have issues allowing another company to stream the content . If you read Doas post you can see that OGn never agreed on kespa having their own stream running. There where still in discussion on the subject. If your rember correctly when mlg announced ppv on the prolgue /mlg model they talkt about it on some shows, Where adam said that an unknown party is making it so that we have to run the event in ppv even if we don’t want too, but in 2013 we will se changes to this. Seeing doa post and the mlg tweet it seems this party might be OGN. OGN having the licen on english stream seems to creat a situation where other companys have to pay them a licen fee to be abel to work with kespa.
Kespa also don’t seem to be forcing the issue to have a PPV model for there proleuge so it was up to them it seems everything would be free. The main thing is probably OGN refusing to let Mlg restream he content for free and want them to pay a licen fee as before. cant denie that this is just a well educated guess but i belive we should wait to make asumption that Kespa is in the wrong here since we dont know whats goes behinde closed dor and Doa dosnt seem to know him self
i need to be able to watch it live. hopegfully with an english caster crew. i dont care if i have to pay for it. kespa ned to make their content accessible for the world rather than just play it in korea and llet the rest of the world read the results on TL
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the back. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
Not gonna happen. MLG and GOM are very sour right now and competing on every front.
Can you provide proof that MLG and gom are "very sour". Competition does not mean hate.. I just don't get why everyone in this community thinks so damn negative all the time.
On December 07 2012 05:09 LiquidFahq wrote: MLG Still has opportunity to work with Tasteless, Artosis, Wolf, Khaldor etc. English casters in Korea is very viable. Yea, they work for Gom but MLG does not seem shy about partnerships at all, especially with Korea. It is very possible we could see the Proleague casted by the likes of Tastosis which would just be ridiculous! If MLG and Kespa really want to make this Proleague a huge success they should not make it PPV, atleast off the back. A free English and KOrean stream would yield huge excitement and I personally think this is fing awesome and there will be an English cast one way or another so no worries Team Liquiders!
Not gonna happen. MLG and GOM are very sour right now and competing on every front.
Can you provide proof that MLG and gom are "very sour". Competition does not mean hate.. I just don't get why everyone in this community thinks so damn negative all the time.
Proof is for courtrooms and news networks. This is TL, where we assume every business acts the same as a caddy middle school girl.
My new, most "likeliest" theory: MLG was already in talks with Kespa to get rights to rebroadcast Proleague games at EST primetime (I'm thinking MLG assumed OGN would still broadcast live in Korean and English, as originally planned). Kespa thought about their situation and figured that they could cut off OGN's English broadcast rights and go with just MLG's rebroadcast as the sole English option.
Not sure how this benefits Kespa, though. I have the feeling Kespa is going to announce their own live English broadcast provided by this "IEG" broadcasting entity that they apparently own.
I don't know why everyone in this thread seems to think that this whole move was some kind of conspiracy by MLG. Kespa, as they are known to do, made a last minute business decision about how they were going to broadcast their content, meanwhile MLG has been trying to get rights to restream (hence MLGLee's tweet, it was in the works). It wouldn't make any sense for MLG to try to get OGN to cancel their english broadcast because it doesn't really compete much with the product they were planning on offering anyway. People who want to stay up all night and see it live are perfectly willing to see it in korean for the most part, and people who aren't would watch the restream.
I hope there's a positive word on this by the time I wake up tomorrow. I'll be bummed if I can only watch VoDs without the whole "experience". Then again, with the venue there won't exactly be a crowd...
On December 07 2012 10:05 Larkin wrote: I hope there's a positive word on this by the time I wake up tomorrow. I'll be bummed if I can only watch VoDs without the whole "experience". Then again, with the venue there won't exactly be a crowd...
What do you mean? There's always a crowd at Proleague games.
So what exactly is the relationship between this "IEG" thing and the "SPOTV" that was supposedly broadcasting the weekend matches? Are they the same thing, because it sort of sounds like it...?
On December 07 2012 10:05 Larkin wrote: I hope there's a positive word on this by the time I wake up tomorrow. I'll be bummed if I can only watch VoDs without the whole "experience". Then again, with the venue there won't exactly be a crowd...
What do you mean? There's always a crowd at Proleague games.
I think he means for the Monday/Tuesday games broadcaster by SpoTV.
I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now.
If this is true I will begrudgingly step back from ramping up my irrational anti-MLG bias. I will, of course, maintain my rational anti-KeSPA bias. Still disappointed OGN won't be doing English Proleague. I liked their casters and expected any tech problems to be cleared up.
I guess I'll probably end up watching some of the EG-TL matches in some form, while completely ignoring purely KeSPA content.
MLG definitely ARE stepping in as the saviours. I think the last thing that anyone wanted was 'Monte Christo' (who?) casting what is THE most exciting tournament in SC2... history is in the making right now... it's sad that Doa is a casualty but as a fan I'm really hoping MLG can bring in experienced and knowledgeable casters.
On December 07 2012 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: I think it's more believable that MLG asked to broadcast proleague so they feel they get something out of this kespa/mlg partnership. Then kespa pulled the plug on the ogn english broadcast to appease MLG. MLG will deny it publicly, but it's hard to believe this isn't what happened behind closed doors.
Kespa doesn't mind taking the blame for this cause they don't really care about what foreigners think of them. MLG does however, so they want to appear as the white knight riding in to rescue this, when they were in fact the mastermind behind this in the first place.
Nice assumptions bro. Please don't pretend like you have a valid, evidence-based argument. You have nothing but leaps of logic founded on cynical assumptions. The sole piece of substantive "evidence" you provide is that MLG stands to make money off the English broadcast lol.
Assumptions is all anyone has at this point. MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie causing Kespa to pull the plug seems a reasonable assumption at this point.
On December 07 2012 01:29 Mauldo wrote: "Potentially free" is where I have the problem. We're supposed to trust MLG to keep it free? Just like we could trust OGN and Kespa, right?
I don't know why people get so worked up over hours of content costing about the price of a pizza. Think about how much of it you're going to watch. I mean, I would love a freemium model or whatever, but MLG (or any organization) won't grow ever without models like that (PPV). GSL technically has a freemium model, but the ticket is worth it because the quality is so much better, and they seem to do well (great production value, etc.)
Edit: Granted, I personally think a subscription based model would be the best for any kind of starcraft tournament.
my opinion is that even if MLG ends up doing the english cast, it is not going to be of suitable production quality for a while
I don't think MLG is going to send their own casters and production team to Korea for this, so if they do an english broadcast during more NA-EU friendly times, they'll either be doing casts via replays or a cast with Korean audio involved unless they're willing to mute everything except for MLG caster audio
people are going to be mad that OGN was not able to do the english broadcast (if there is one)
stupid idiot power move by KESPA to not let OGN do an english broadcast last minute
I think they'll squeeze an English broadcast out somehow.
From what I understand, SPL's sponsor SK Planet was also hoping to use this opportunity of the pro-league to market itself to the world. Kinda hard to do that in a language majority of the world might not understand
Live broadcasts (in english) with great production from the event location/venue is the norm, thanks to GomTV's efforts to reach the international scene. Thats what we are used to for a premier tournament coming out of Korea, anything less for proleague will be severely underwhelming.
On December 07 2012 13:45 YourBestFriend wrote: anyways if mlg is not able to broadcast it.. where can i see it in korean?
I suspect http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV , but just check the LR thread. The people creating those always have a section titled "Streams" which tells you what is available and how to access it.
On December 07 2012 11:31 EvanC wrote: MLG definitely ARE stepping in as the saviours. I think the last thing that anyone wanted was 'Monte Christo' (who?) casting what is THE most exciting tournament in SC2... history is in the making right now... it's sad that Doa is a casualty but as a fan I'm really hoping MLG can bring in experienced and knowledgeable casters.
Yeah man instead we get great casters like Axslav!
On December 07 2012 11:31 EvanC wrote: MLG definitely ARE stepping in as the saviours. I think the last thing that anyone wanted was 'Monte Christo' (who?) casting what is THE most exciting tournament in SC2... history is in the making right now... it's sad that Doa is a casualty but as a fan I'm really hoping MLG can bring in experienced and knowledgeable casters.
Yeah man instead we get great casters like Axslav!
Oh wait
oh wait what? Axslav is a great caster. His knowledge is the best out there.
Would restreams with english commentators get shut down? It's a shame that the little guys are getting squeezed out after all these years of dedication.
On December 07 2012 14:24 moochu wrote: Would restreams with english commentators get shut down? It's a shame that the little guys are getting squeezed out after all these years of dedication.
Seeing how they weren't for Brood War Proleague, I'd expect no.
Proleague isnt about the vods or whatever- its about the tense moment of wondering who your team is going to send out next, its about biting your nails worried that your player might lose the whole match for the team. Proleague is not just about the games- its about the tense feeling of excitement of watching the epic match LIVE!!
On December 07 2012 14:26 mrRoflpwn wrote: Proleague isnt about the vods or whatever- its about the tense moment of wondering who your team is going to send out next, its about biting your nails worried that your player might lose the whole match for the team. Proleague is not just about the games- its about the tense feeling of excitement of watching the epic match LIVE!!
For all-kill format, maybe... Not proleague format where we know who's playing who on what map ahead of time...
I really hope they can implement this. Although sometimes listening to Korean casters is alot more fun than listening to English casters. They just seem to have more energy. I think only Total Biscuit is the caster who can match their general level of compulsory excitement for what is happening in a game.
On December 07 2012 14:24 moochu wrote: Would restreams with english commentators get shut down? It's a shame that the little guys are getting squeezed out after all these years of dedication.
Seeing how they weren't for Brood War Proleague, I'd expect no.
I talked to someone from twitch at MLG (back when I was rebroadcasting SCBW Proleague) and it was technically not allowed to restream proleague.
That being said, if it's like Gom and you restream a league that provides english commentary, it probably won't be allowed? Who knows *shrug*
On December 07 2012 14:26 mrRoflpwn wrote: Proleague isnt about the vods or whatever- its about the tense moment of wondering who your team is going to send out next, its about biting your nails worried that your player might lose the whole match for the team. Proleague is not just about the games- its about the tense feeling of excitement of watching the epic match LIVE!!
For all-kill format, maybe... Not proleague format where we know who's playing who on what map ahead of time...
The tension is even higher, because there is time to prepare strategies not just for the map, but also the opponent. This is where the art of sniping is even more important. Players such as Calm perform better under these conditions.
This was the Proleague format before the match fixing scandal.
While you guys attempt to cast replays hours after the games actually occur I'll be watching the games live at http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian in 21 hours because games are a lot more fun to watch when they're live... even without "professional" casters.
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free.
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys.
Good stuff. Any way to throw money at you guys right away?
Cmon don't get fooled. MLG asked on twitter 2 days ago if they should cast proleague. They are not stepping in as the saviours now, they were in contact with KeSPA back then and may have caused OGN to get kicked out.
I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now.
So potentially free, in English and a rebroadcast in eastern time.
but the question is, is there livecast ? i not wanna watch a recast
On December 07 2012 15:01 Elite_ wrote: While you guys attempt to cast replays hours after the games actually occur I'll be watching the games live at http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian in 21 hours because games are a lot more fun to watch when they're live... even without "professional" casters.
On December 07 2012 15:01 Elite_ wrote: While you guys attempt to cast replays hours after the games actually occur I'll be watching the games live at http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian in 21 hours because games are a lot more fun to watch when they're live... even without "professional" casters.
Are you five years old?
What your comment has to do with anything? He can do whatever he wants and to be honest, i'd do the same in this situation.
EPT
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