EPTTvZ: A Summary of What's (Still) Broken - Page 12
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Terrans started to do it and the next thing you know, after less than 10 total broadcasted games of this NEW LATEGAME the ghost was nerfed. It was not unstoppable. You are just trying to SHOUT here. I remember playing/watching quite a few games and replays where Zergs were starting to down-tech purposely back into mass ling/baneling to deal with the "mass ghosts" which worked really well because there were way too many targets to snipe. wait there were less then 10 games where mass ghost was used but there was quite a few games were Zerg downteched? i smell a contradiction plus downteching doesnt work because they jsut stutterstep the lings and theres nothing you can do Is this a joke post? Dropping auto turrets in enemies base is extremely high risk, low reward. Auto turrets do absolutely garbage damage and gets destroyed by just about any zerg unit. In late game, it takes 2-3 zerglings to kill an auto turret. Hows that for 50 energy spent? Besides sending Ravens into enemy base is a one way trip. One fungal and none of them will make it out alive. im getting so sick of people who dont know about army compositions talking about them like there experts 10 auto turrets will kill a base very easily and are very hard to kill mass raven ahs been extremely strong for a very long time ravens are much faster and much more mobile then infesters, if they get fungal your dumb, plus if infesters are near jsut HSM them and laugh | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:58 Forikorder wrote: ravens are much faster and much more mobile then infesters, if they get fungal your dumb, plus if infesters are near jsut HSM them and laugh You realize that everything about this sentence is untrue, right? | ||
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:58 Forikorder wrote: wait there were less then 10 games where mass ghost was used but there was quite a few games were Zerg downteched? i smell a contradiction plus downteching doesnt work because they jsut stutterstep the lings and theres nothing you can do im getting so sick of people who dont know about army compositions talking about them like there experts 10 auto turrets will kill a base very easily and are very hard to kill mass raven ahs been extremely strong for a very long time ravens are much faster and much more mobile then infesters, if they get fungal your dumb, plus if infesters are near jsut HSM them and laugh No self respecting zerg will let auto turrets kill a base :/ Also, the unforgiving nature of fungal growth is one of the main issues being discussed is it not? Ravens are not exactly a mobile unit by the way. | ||
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote: nonononnononon you never land the vikings you jsut drop some autoturrets unless they have a literal ring of spinecrawlers around every building theres some deadzone where you can put auto turrets that can hit a hatch/reater spire/workers and they have to respond to it just run in, drop 10 turrets and run out no risk extremely high reward in silver maybe. wasting 500 ernergy which couldve been hsm? risking to lose the ravens? wtf? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:03 forsooth wrote: You realize that everything about this sentence is untrue, right? so your saying ravens move at 2.0 speed, have a crappy accelaration and are a ground unit? No self respecting zerg will let auto turrets kill a base :/ Also, the unforgiving nature of fungal growth is one of the main issues being discussed is it not? Ravens are not exactly a mobile unit by the way. exactly, while hes running around trying to deal with the turrets you are completely safe | ||
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WhalesFromSpace
390 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:46 avilo wrote: Zergs were finding answers to it, I remember playing/watching quite a few games and replays where Zergs were starting to down-tech purposely back into mass ling/baneling to deal with the "mass ghosts" which worked really well because there were way too many targets to snipe. This in conjunction with fungal among other things was turning out to be quite the counter. This is exactly right, and I felt it added another dynamic to the late game ZvT in terms of identifying tech transitions and the appropriate composition for a re-max. I think the ghosts were still too strong vs BL and perhaps the best solution would have been that which was proposed by qxc: Simply nerfing the damage to specific classes of units (ie massive). Ghosts were a really interesting unit in TvT because they could 1 shot marines, and the previously stronger snipe allowed Terrans to take chunks out of the late game zealot count in TvP (which was something blizzard noted as a problem for Terran). When reflecting on blizzard's handling of the ghost situation, in addition to things like BFH and Thors (after the Thorzain TSL build), I can understand why many Terran and Protoss players are upset at the time being taken to address the perceived issues with the Zerg race: Overall I am happier that they are taking a more tentative approach to patching things but perhaps this could be complimented by some revision of previous changes, acquiring more feedback from pros, and a higher degree of transparency in regards to their current perception of the meta game and what is or is not giving certain races advantages. | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:06 Forikorder wrote: so your saying ravens move at 2.0 speed, have a crappy accelaration and are a ground unit? Infestors OFF CREEP 2.25 Infestor On Creep 2.9 Raven 2.25 are you trying to be wrong? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:11 xPabt wrote: Infestors OFF CREEP 2.25 Infestor On Creep 2.9 Raven 2.25 are you trying to be wrong? ravens fly that makes them 10 times more mobile by the time you know where the ravens are the auto-turrets are down and there retreating so unless your flying above creep they'll never get caught | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:58 Forikorder wrote: wait there were less then 10 games where mass ghost was used but there was quite a few games were Zerg downteched? i smell a contradiction plus downteching doesnt work because they jsut stutterstep the lings and theres nothing you can do im getting so sick of people who dont know about army compositions talking about them like there experts 10 auto turrets will kill a base very easily and are very hard to kill mass raven ahs been extremely strong for a very long time ravens are much faster and much more mobile then infesters, if they get fungal your dumb, plus if infesters are near jsut HSM them and laugh What league are you... | ||
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Discarder
Philippines411 Posts
All of that is to say that timing attacks for Terran were (and are) no longer reliably effective versus Zerg. TvZ is presently the only matchup where timing attacks do not work. When a Zerg plays beyond economic greed (such as using all of the queens for creep tumors rather than saving the energy to transfuse), they become vulnerable again. However, this is a rarity in practice .OP, this is not correct and sounds really biased. After opening 3OC from Hellion Banshee, there is a marine tank timing attack with 2/2 at around 14:00. There is also another on 2 base with lighter upgrades which hits before zerg +1+1 evo upgrades kicks in. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:18 Forikorder wrote: ravens fly that makes them 10 times more mobile by the time you know where the ravens are the auto-turrets are down and there retreating so unless your flying above creep they'll never get caught I'm getting really tired of your trolling. Drop 10 turrets in their base? Just go back on ladder and enjoy this bullshit while it lasts. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:19 Discarder wrote: . OP, this is not correct and sounds really biased. After opening 3OC from Hellion Banshee, there is a marine tank timing attack with 2/2 at around 14:00. There is also another on 2 base with lighter upgrades which hits before zerg +1+1 evo upgrades kicks in. The 14 minutes "timing attack" might as well be called an all in. It is designed for one reason and one reason only, to win the game before winfestor/brood combo comes out. If you move too slowly, or do not outright win the game, it is almost always GG. If you call this a "timing attack" you are leaving out that it is more of an all in. This is why you see so many terrans doing what used to be considered crazy, and walking across creep. Because if we don't get there in time....... | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote: nonononnononon you never land the vikings you jsut drop some autoturrets unless they have a literal ring of spinecrawlers around every building theres some deadzone where you can put auto turrets that can hit a hatch/reater spire/workers and they have to respond to it just run in, drop 10 turrets and run out no risk extremely high reward 5-8 spine crawlers is pretty much a ring. There isn't enough energy left over from the ravens to make so many autoturrets after I clean out their BL corruptor army. Also, there isn't enough space around the zerg hatchery to even plant autoturrets =/ | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
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PaperPrinter
33 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:35 Forikorder wrote: there are no banes, thats what snipe is for just snipe the banes then all thats left is ling VS marine Be realistic, you have about 2 seconds before the ghosts get in range to snipe before the banes can connect, nobody is going to be able to instakill, say 50 banes in the late game before they get in range. And if you snipe them when they're on top of the ghosts/marines then they explode anyways. There is no way a marine/ghost army should win vs a ling/bane army. It is that cost effective vs it edited | ||
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RaXCitY
United States37 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:33 PaperPrinter wrote: Be realistic, you have about 2 seconds before the ghosts get in range to snipe before the banes can connect, nobody is going to be able to instakill, say 50 banes in the late game before they get in range. And if you snipe them when they're on top of the ghosts/marines then they explode anyways. There is no way a marine/ghost army should win vs a ling/bane army. It is that cost effective vs it edited with good splits and decent snipes ghost/marine eats ling/bane the whole reason people started using infesters is because relying on banes to kill amrines became way too hard | ||
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Arwa
Indonesia24 Posts
ravens fly that makes them 10 times more mobile by the time you know where the ravens are the auto-turrets are down and there retreating so unless your flying above creep they'll never get caught[/QUOTE] What did i just read ? are you really playing tvz ? LoL ... Raven is not the answer, and if it realyl is, T should probably find it out Fungal range is 8 (now) vs seeker missile 3 range .. Plz do the math, i enjoy reading arguments but this one is totaly nonsense | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
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