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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
Can be used to juke, can be used offensively (splitting), and defensively (FF'ing Ramps). I can't count the number of time's FF has saved me from an early offensive move (4Gate, Early Pool, SCV Marine All in). I will admit I can't bring my point to words, but I don't feel it needs to be changed at all... | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
With expansions on the horizon and in the future, it's much easier to fix by adding than to fix through complete redesign. Blizzard has had plenty of success with adding niche units to balance games through expansions. | ||
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sjperera
Canada349 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
It is funny though that Forcefields make your units derp until you control them, while Fungal messes up any unit control. So Imo Forcefields do the job of forcing micro pretty well. Fungal does as well, but the issue with fungal is that it deletes orders that were given, which forcefields don't. PvZ is a matchup were two races meet, that are really slow to develop new strategies. And Blizzard guiding those 2 races for some time, didn't really helped there. Now we get an Infestor nerf, before Broodlord Infestor even got close to perfection or before Protoss even tried to beat it. And the same thing goes on with Immortal sentrie, aside from a few special Zergs. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Protoss has to micro his ass off and gets frustrated by that, while zerg gets frustrated because any micro is useless. That's the issue | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
On November 18 2012 23:34 Zandar wrote: It's not about simplifying the game, Brian333, but there is some unfair micro balance here. Protoss has to micro his ass off and gets frustrated by that, while zerg gets frustrated because any micro is useless. That's the issue And the rest of my statement was that it's about balancing the micro demand not through changing FF, but through adding means for the Zerg to micro out of FF situations. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
 I also posted an idea for a solution: On November 18 2012 23:23 Zandar wrote: Add a spell to a zerg unit that's hardly used at the moment and/or is currently a 1 trick pony. Like a corruptor, overseer, changeling. A spell that is visible on the unit, like roach tunneling claws. A spell that removes a forcefield and is balancable by tweeking the mana cost. It should probably be very high mana cost so it can't be spammed but gives zerg an escape route when he gets a forcefield donut around his army. It should be a tech route you need to dedicate for though, which you only start when seeing lots of sentries and delays some other tech routes when you choose this one. Gives more options, more interesting games. Both Protoss and Zerg get rewarded more for scouting. Zerg when he sees many sentries, protoss when he sees the unit has the anti forcefield upgrade. | ||
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Garon
Czech Republic2 Posts
Personally i don't feel like the problem is with FF/fungal but with the fact that you cant really prevent them from being casted. | ||
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kasumimi
Greece460 Posts
IMO it's not possible to change the forcefield without touching the rest of the units throughout the entire races. Because forcefield is "perfect" as it is right now, it fills the gap of weak Protoss early game and the evens out battles where P is unavoidably behind in supply. Colossus, warpgate, marauders, marines, roaches, 4.6 speed lings, stalker being the most dps inefficient unit ETC; these are all variables that make the forcefield fit in to the current (in my opinion poor) state of SC2. | ||
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Batcha
Bosnia-Herzegovina72 Posts
Hire Gretorp please! | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Not to say that Fungal growth isn't broke as fuck, I believe it is, but Force Field is just as broken and available from the first few minutes of the game. Combined with good building placement, 2 entire bases can be defended with nothing more than 1-3 Cannons and 1-3 Sentries. PvZ is a shitty MU from this point on. Zerg really cannot be offensive when all offense can be shut down so incredibly cost-effectively. Zerg cannot afford to tech up quickly because in order to make any T2 tech effective, you need at least 4 gasses and 40+ drones on minerals. Zergs only option in PvZ becomes 3 hatch. All other options are already shut down by the mere existence of Force Field. Now, knowing that Zergs only option is 3 hatch and Protoss CANNOT be attacked until Zerg is maxed (or preferably hive tech) Protoss is free to do whatever they want. Stargate isn't good, but since Zerg can't do anything about it, it works. Blink Stalkers isn't good, but throw a handful of Force Fields in front of those Stalkers, and they can become unstoppable. Immortals are only good against Roaches and nothing else really, but due to Force Field, Protoss can pick and choose how much army they want to fight, always putting themselves in an advantageous position. Lets ignore all this 2 base play though, and fast forward to the thing everybody has been complaining about for the past month: BL/Infestor. Why is this army so powerful? 2 major reasons: 1) It ignores Force Field 2) It mitigates Colossus Both of these things shut down everything Zerg does so hard that when Zerg doesn't have to worry about them, Protoss doesn't know what to do. They cry imba. Now, again, I will agree that Fungal is a broke ass spell, but everything else about the composition is rather mediocre, and the fact that Blizzard is considering addressing BL/Infestor without addressing what FF does to the PvZ MU makes me sad. Much like Morrow, the prominance of Force Field play in PvZ has made me sick. To the point where I don't even bother playing SC2 anymore. I like ZvZ and ZvT, but having to play the stupidest fucking possible way simply to mitigate the power of that broke ass spell and knowing that I STILL have a 50% chance of losing to an allin while I am full on turtling makes me sick. SC2 is a broken game. It's not "harsh" or "unforgiving" it's fucking broken, and it's not fun to play. When I lose to sentry/immortal timings, I don't think "Damn, I got outplayed right there, my opponent is good as fuck" I think "this shit is broken..." | ||
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Thienan567
United States670 Posts
Something like say, defense matrix from BW? 250 more hp, but some of the dmg goes through. Lasts 45-50 secs? Just like in BW | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
Both spells are broken, but please dont try to make it out like toss is some fucking unbeatable race Jermstuddog. This is like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. FF and Colosus are no where near as OP as fungal is. All 3 are bad game designs, but bad game design =/= overpowered. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Ossan
14 Posts
1. Give sentries a "sensor tower" like ability instead (preferably w/out it showing up on minimap) 2. Give zealots the Charge movement speed (regular movement not the ability) 3. Add Blink and Charge to the Cybernetics Core (stick air upgrades on the Forge or Twilight) | ||
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Suikakuju
Germany238 Posts
It really is no fun for me to play ZvP since beta cuz of FF ^^ | ||
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Gihi
384 Posts
Also, never seen a zerg pick up units from forcefields, and rarely using burrow movement either although this become redundant when colossi are out. | ||
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truegaymer
United States32 Posts
all in can be hard to stop, since when is this new. if you know its coming most zergs stop it easy. ppl whine about it more than bl/infestor beacause it comes faster than bl/infestor which results in shorter games so i guess they would rather see an infestor army dominate late game. i think they really mad beacause the best foreigners can only play zerg and they would rather have sc2 decided by zvz. | ||
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
- Forcefield is replaced with an ability that increases the amount of damage enemies within the AoE take, with light units taking a higher amount increase. Units take X extra damage per attack, with light units taking X+Y extra per attack instead. I say a bonus to light units because marines are a thing, and tosses need a way to survive against mass marines until colossi/storm are out (being more useful against lings wouldn't hurt either). - Forcefields is replaced with an ability that simply slows enemies down within the AoE. Again you could try to make certain units take a higher movement penalty. - The sentry could maybe have two modes, like siege tanks. They have their normal mobile mode, but they need to switch to their immobile mode to do their stronger attacks or spells. It sounds like a ripoff of the tank, but tosses have the warp prism meaning they could definitely have the sentry follow a similar route. Thus, similar to tvz where zergs try to engage when the tanks aren't ready, the zerg would try to engage while the sentries are not ready. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On November 19 2012 00:03 ohampatu wrote: and your 'this shit is broken' mentality is wrong, because you are bad, like every person who has posted in this thread, including morrow (and me and you and all of us) Both spells are broken, but please dont try to make it out like toss is some fucking unbeatable race Jermstuddog. This is like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. FF and Colosus are no where near as OP as fungal is. All 3 are bad game designs, but bad game design =/= overpowered. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this banned? It is a direct response to Jermstuddog's post, who was really whiny and unreasonable, I believe this was a response to his mentality especially (that you should always try to improve instead of blaming it on the game, hence calling everyone here bad, because everybody here has room to improve). A misunderstanding led to this ban, I believe! Edit: ok, language could be cleaner, but I think it was not meant as a ad-hominem attack but rather criticizing the attitude. | ||
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