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On November 26 2012 04:55 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 04:43 NoobSkills wrote:
I think things that prevent unit movement fungal and FF both lead to boring engagements. They prevent micro which is one of the more impressive parts of the game. But just because a zerg wants 80 drones, 4 queens, tech, upgrades, 3 bases, all before making a single unit doesn't make FF imba, it makes zerg greedy which is what those games were. Sure, if protoss walks into a 2nd base with this timing attack, and zerg has 30 lings 15 roaches 3 spines infestors popping and still wins FF is imba. You base your opinion on thinking X is imba, instead of asking what did Y do wrong? Did you read the OP at all? He never said it was imba, he said it was BORING. Zerg can't really micro they have to rely on tosses forcefields as their "micro" and he thinks it's boring (which it is). He never said "this is broken and FF needs fixed". Read the OP before you go on a huge rant that makes no since.
My post does make "sense" even if it isn't in relation to the OP, but to someone else who posted in this thread. I never stated anything about how boring they were, but I do agree that they are indeed boring, but without them the protoss early game army is weaksauce.
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On the topic of FF, I've always felt that they are a lot like siege tanks in a weird way. They can turn any favorable terrain into a defensive position and can really mess with rallied unit movements, but like tanks they suddenly impact your mobility once "deployed" and are weak to flanks or being caught "undeployed". Forcefields really are an issue of map-maker balance at this point. They're as important to Protoss as tanks to terran.
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Rofl bout this thread. P underpowered, tards
no fking balance att all. P are best players, hands down.
most skill needed
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 26 2012 05:26 dUTtrOACh wrote:
On the topic of FF, I've always felt that they are a lot like siege tanks in a weird way. They can turn any favorable terrain into a defensive position and can really mess with rallied unit movements, but like tanks they suddenly impact your mobility once "deployed" and are weak to flanks or being caught "undeployed". Forcefields really are an issue of map-maker balance at this point. They're as important to Protoss as tanks to terran.
so u mean they worthless?
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United States4791 Posts
On November 26 2012 10:15 neptunusfisk wrote:do you remember when PvZ was awesome? :p + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpFDGyTLtpY
I remember 1998, when video games were awesome and Diago Umehara and Alex Valle were playing possibly the best match in any eSport.
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I cannot understand how blizzard is blind to the negative effects that forcefield have on the game. Just for the sake of mapmaking they should remove it.
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On November 26 2012 08:29 PurpleChef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 05:26 dUTtrOACh wrote:
On the topic of FF, I've always felt that they are a lot like siege tanks in a weird way. They can turn any favorable terrain into a defensive position and can really mess with rallied unit movements, but like tanks they suddenly impact your mobility once "deployed" and are weak to flanks or being caught "undeployed". Forcefields really are an issue of map-maker balance at this point. They're as important to Protoss as tanks to terran. so u mean they worthless?
There are situations where they can be, yes.
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I am disappointed that Morrow's post does not contain the slightest idea what the solution could be, it only lists the perceived problems.
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Would a slightly longer CD timer, then the length of the spell work?
As that way you could still cut them off, but there would still be punishment after the fact, this could also stop the sentry immortal thing where they just block off the main and zerg for the most part just sits there. (counter attack being useless because again forcefield).
I feel in this case however zerglings would be really strong
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Forcefields are not a problem in PvT nor PvP , i can play those 2 mu without sticking around with FF.
So, the problem is on the Zerg side, not the forcefield per se.
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So, I too agree that something needs to be done about forcefields and I suggest a slight change that might be good. I have not done any of the math or any experiments so take it for What it is:
Swap FF with Time Warp that is on the  Oracle.
Since you cannot build oracles with the same speed and you need another building for it, it will severly limit the number of Forcefields that are available early on, and massing oracles will mean that your DPS shrinks significantly.
And Time Warp will can do mostly the same thing FF does, only worse, making it useful for running away or delaying a battle. But you cannot stop a battle, as you can with FF.
And it would further encourage Protoss Stargate builds, which I really like.
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On November 26 2012 10:15 neptunusfisk wrote:do you remember when PvZ was awesome? :p + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpFDGyTLtpY
Thats not a fair comparison, that game was better =(
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On November 26 2012 21:26 Angeleon wrote:So, I too agree that something needs to be done about forcefields and I suggest a slight change that might be good. I have not done any of the math or any experiments so take it for What it is: Swap FF with Time Warp that is on the Oracle. Since you cannot build oracles with the same speed and you need another building for it, it will severly limit the number of Forcefields that are available early on, and massing oracles will mean that your DPS shrinks significantly. And Time Warp will can do mostly the same thing FF does, only worse, making it useful for running away or delaying a battle. But you cannot stop a battle, as you can with FF. And it would further encourage Protoss Stargate builds, which I really like.
3 Food + 150 Gas + Stargate tech
No... :\
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On November 26 2012 23:16 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 21:26 Angeleon wrote:So, I too agree that something needs to be done about forcefields and I suggest a slight change that might be good. I have not done any of the math or any experiments so take it for What it is: Swap FF with Time Warp that is on the Oracle. Since you cannot build oracles with the same speed and you need another building for it, it will severly limit the number of Forcefields that are available early on, and massing oracles will mean that your DPS shrinks significantly. And Time Warp will can do mostly the same thing FF does, only worse, making it useful for running away or delaying a battle. But you cannot stop a battle, as you can with FF. And it would further encourage Protoss Stargate builds, which I really like. 3 Food + 150 Gas + Stargate tech No... :\
That is the whole point. Forcefield will not be as plentiful as it is today, but you can still get it quite quickly and even more important you'll have a far more mobile unit for it. One not even limited by forcefield itself, which in my opinion is two great advantages for Protoss. And even so, the slow that'll be on the sentry will still be useful, and alot more helpful against air, for instance.
I guess mutas are going to have a hard time with this, and I'm not so sure that is good.
You're going to have to give me a better reason than 'No...' =)
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On November 26 2012 19:45 InVerno wrote:
Forcefields are not a problem in PvT nor PvP , i can play those 2 mu without sticking around with FF.
So, the problem is on the Zerg side, not the forcefield per se.
I am curious to how you play PvT as a Protoss without using forcefields and survive long enough to get Colossos or Storm.
Anyway, I do think that the most important part of the OP was:
Nothing dies, then suddenly everything dies
when protoss gets enough sentries for forcefield, zergs army becomes kind of useless. the second forcefields run out for protoss, the protoss army gets easily run over and killed without a chance
In other words, the protoss units aren't good enough without forcefields to have a stand-up fight against zerg. If it isn't forcefields, it's the Colossos crutch. In other words: gateway units (except for the forcefield and the T3 templar) are too weak against Zerg, and Terran to a degree.
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I think the solution is going to lie somewhere in HOTS. Honestly the whole concept of controling space in a game like starcraft is that there is a draw back or a cost for doing so. I think all 3 races could benefit from an early game unit that could be used to "bait" out forcefields more effectivly. What that unit is? not sure.. Thats something that someone smarter than me will need to figure out.
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Protoss has to micro, zerg has to macro and a-move and terran,well i dunno they a bit in the middle.
That the races are different, and that protoss can micro more then zerg i dont realy find a valid point.
It seems to be the way the game is set up, with clear differences between all 3 races, not just 3 basicly the same races with only different units. i kinda like this.
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awesome read i agree totally although i am terran and we micro all day erryday
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On November 26 2012 17:07 Redox wrote:
I am disappointed that Morrow's post does not contain the slightest idea what the solution could be, it only lists the perceived problems.
I don't think there is a solution aside from a complete returning of the race's mechanics. Forcefield defines protoss as designed. I'm not sure if a major change can be validated (it would undoubtedly change the way protoss is played and require re-learning and re-balancing of the match ups) unless it comes with a beta, so we may have to wait for LotV until forcefield is seriously addressed.
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EPT
