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A fundamental issue about forcefield - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Arighttomorals
Profile Joined November 2012
20 Posts
November 29 2012 09:19 GMT
#601
Do you guys remember that plague took 250hp, and hit protoss armor instead of shields., and queen had ensnare which slowed units to 50% speed? you could stick a protoss army , sap their health, then wait, then hit.

What has changed from there that these spells are giving problems? My guess would be the clumping, smartfire, and smartcast.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 29 2012 09:21 GMT
#602
On November 29 2012 18:19 Arighttomorals wrote:
Do you guys remember that plague took 250hp, and hit protoss armor instead of shields., and queen had ensnare which slowed units to 50% speed? you could stick a protoss army , sap their health, then wait, then hit.

What has changed from there that these spells are giving problems? My guess would be the clumping, smartfire, and smartcast.


Ok but did a player ever mass 15+ defilers just to plague every game? No, did someone mass 15+ queens every game just to ensnare? No.

Every game zergs get mass infestor and protoss gets sentries so they can force field. There is a huge difference between the bw related spells and the sc2 ones, the sc2 ones are used 99.999% of the games and are massed, there aren't just a few but normally 6-7+ minimum.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
November 29 2012 09:54 GMT
#603
I remember what jaedong said about sc2 being more difficult than bw because in bw he could just win by microing his mutas and hydras -______-
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Arighttomorals
Profile Joined November 2012
20 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 10:21:52
November 29 2012 10:20 GMT
#604
On November 29 2012 18:21 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2012 18:19 Arighttomorals wrote:
Do you guys remember that plague took 250hp, and hit protoss armor instead of shields., and queen had ensnare which slowed units to 50% speed? you could stick a protoss army , sap their health, then wait, then hit.

What has changed from there that these spells are giving problems? My guess would be the clumping, smartfire, and smartcast.


Ok but did a player ever mass 15+ defilers just to plague every game? No, did someone mass 15+ queens every game just to ensnare? No.

Every game zergs get mass infestor and protoss gets sentries so they can force field. There is a huge difference between the bw related spells and the sc2 ones, the sc2 ones are used 99.999% of the games and are massed, there aren't just a few but normally 6-7+ minimum.


defilers could consume any zerg unit for emnergy, basically meaning zerglings = infinite energy, so you only need 1 or 2 defilers.

As far as tjhe massing goes, I think it's stupid too. You know what prevented massing in SC1 was the relational value of minerals and gas, and how hard it was to get. One geyser per base was standard. money maps gave 2 geyers per base. Why they picked up a nonstandard map design to base SC2 around, I will never know.
finaldash
Profile Joined March 2012
Israel27 Posts
November 29 2012 10:40 GMT
#605
-To bad that 1 EMP, FUNGAL & FEEDBACK cant cancel 1 Force Field

-To bad we cant see a vedio showing what they working on for multi player units, spells & other ideas

-I want to go to Blizzard and test with them the changes

Well it will take time to find what we are looking for to change & add
till then we wil just see
Just a lazy person that learns
arie3000
Profile Joined October 2011
153 Posts
November 29 2012 12:09 GMT
#606
On November 28 2012 16:18 convention wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2012 15:50 Bobthetart wrote:
I read as much as I can, but didn't see this suggestion. What if force fields could be targeted and have like a few hundred shield points. Would still be useful but might spark some new creative meta ideas especially in HotS.

I think the only new meta it would spark is that terran just mass marines early and attacks every single game. If you can't hold a ramp against marines then they will win every game.


Give them a bit or armour? That way they can be broken, but only by marauders and roaches, and not by marines.
If that fails, nerf marines - everyone happy
chaos021
Profile Joined March 2012
United States258 Posts
November 29 2012 19:32 GMT
#607
On November 29 2012 18:19 Arighttomorals wrote:
Do you guys remember that plague took 250hp, and hit protoss armor instead of shields., and queen had ensnare which slowed units to 50% speed? you could stick a protoss army , sap their health, then wait, then hit.

What has changed from there that these spells are giving problems? My guess would be the clumping, smartfire, and smartcast.


So,

1. The abilities you mentioned required control of 2 different units instead of 1.
2. Ensnare was a slow. Not a stun.
3. Neither of those brood war units could just drop an army where ever you choose while being burrowed.
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
November 29 2012 19:49 GMT
#608
On November 29 2012 18:19 Arighttomorals wrote:
Do you guys remember that plague took 250hp, and hit protoss armor instead of shields., and queen had ensnare which slowed units to 50% speed? you could stick a protoss army , sap their health, then wait, then hit.

What has changed from there that these spells are giving problems? My guess would be the clumping, smartfire, and smartcast.


It was 300 hp, not 250.
Plague can't kill.
2 units instead of 1.
Slow instead of stick in place.
Defiler can't make an army.
Queen can't make an army.

There's nothing alike between 2 different spells on 2 different units with MUCH different affects and... fungal.
darkness overpowering
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 11:59:51
November 30 2012 11:58 GMT
#609
On November 29 2012 21:09 arie3000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2012 16:18 convention wrote:
On November 28 2012 15:50 Bobthetart wrote:
I read as much as I can, but didn't see this suggestion. What if force fields could be targeted and have like a few hundred shield points. Would still be useful but might spark some new creative meta ideas especially in HotS.

I think the only new meta it would spark is that terran just mass marines early and attacks every single game. If you can't hold a ramp against marines then they will win every game.


Give them a bit or armour? That way they can be broken, but only by marauders and roaches, and not by marines.
If that fails, nerf marines - everyone happy


...you do realise how strong roaches can be when you're not rushing Immortals for an all-in? And that its only possible to hold certain roach-backed pressures and all-ins (especially against FFE) by liberal use of extra cannons and forcefields?

Not to mention how painful concussive Marauders are early game vs Protoss already.


If they're not armoured, Terran wins every game with a Marine-based all-in. If they ARE armoured then Zerg and Terran win every game with Roach and Marauder all-ins. Marines aren't the only problem here, and Protoss is hugely reliant on forcefields in the earlygame.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
UPro-BW
Profile Joined September 2012
81 Posts
November 30 2012 13:08 GMT
#610
solution: remove protoss from the game
"3t4t5t6v7v8v9v" - iloveoov
Weird
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States832 Posts
November 30 2012 17:58 GMT
#611
On November 30 2012 22:08 UPro-BW wrote:
solution: remove protoss from the game


Not far enough! Remove zerg from game as well, give terran the reaver and lurker!

Problems solved. You're welcome.
hpTheGreat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States173 Posts
November 30 2012 19:56 GMT
#612
old news.
people that actually have a brain already know this.
they will never touch forcefield. That will trigger the ultimate shit-domino effect.
they'd have to redesign almost the entire game.
GosuNinja
Profile Joined July 2011
United States127 Posts
December 01 2012 11:07 GMT
#613
On November 28 2012 10:57 BigBossX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2012 07:33 GosuNinja wrote:
On November 28 2012 02:33 BigBossX wrote:
On November 27 2012 18:31 GosuNinja wrote:
On November 27 2012 11:35 BigBossX wrote:
On November 27 2012 10:56 Rassy wrote:
Protoss has to micro, zerg has to macro and a-move and terran,well i dunno they a bit in the middle.
That the races are different, and that protoss can micro more then zerg i dont realy find a valid point.
It seems to be the way the game is set up, with clear differences between all 3 races, not just 3 basicly the same races with only different units. i kinda like this.


It's the fact toss HAS to micro (if that's what you call it) and zerg CANNOT micro. There should be a balance, not A race plays like THIS, B race plays like THAT and that's the end of the story. Zerg should be able to micro to win battles not rely on protoss mis-microing forcefield. Did you even read the fucking op?


um, he just said exactly what you said.... The only difference is he said that he likes that the 3 races are different in that way. Basically if you want to micro you play protoss.


That's not what I am saying. I'm saying both races should be able to micro, not zerg CAN'T micro, and toss MUST micro. Reading, try it some time.


lol are u serious? "The only difference is he said that he likes that the 3 races are different in that way" come on dude, take your own advice.


And I'm saying the 3 races SHOULDN'T BE DIFFERENT IN THAT WAY. How hard is that to understand? how many times do I have to say it?

" protoss can micro more then zerg i dont realy find a valid point."
It IS a valid point.

"not just 3 basicly the same races with only different units. i kinda like this."
Except it should be this way. Not terran has to hit a mid game timing or lose. Not that protoss has to micro perfectly or lose. And most definitely not that zerg has to HOPE protoss doesn't micro perfectly or lose.


I cannot beleive i have to actually spell this out for you, everyone understands your point.. the 3 races shouldnt be different in that way, the original guy KNEW that they were different in that way and he LIKES IT THAT WAY. You failed to understand what he was saying due to your lack of reading comprehension. The fact you didnt understand after my last post leads me to beleive you are either really young or just very, very dumb.
scsnow
Profile Joined April 2010
Slovenia515 Posts
December 01 2012 12:13 GMT
#614
too much spells that prevent micro.... forcefield in PvX... and ZvX in lategame... millions of eggs/infested terrans and broodlings.
Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 13:59:36
December 03 2012 05:18 GMT
#615
10 char
*burp*
UnholyRai
Profile Joined September 2010
720 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 16:07:43
December 06 2012 16:07 GMT
#616
why can't they buff gateway units and just remove the forcefield? Yes this would need balancing in the mid / late game but it's feasible, no?

I agree this is an awful mechanic.
Gogo Grubby.
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
December 06 2012 17:02 GMT
#617
On December 07 2012 01:07 UnholyRai wrote:
why can't they buff gateway units and just remove the forcefield?


Do that. Proxy gateways and 4-gate suddenly got a lot stronger.

Works both ways. *shrug*
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
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