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On November 08 2012 22:32 TheMooseHeed wrote:
Any nerf but the supply increase pleeeease. Zerg hardly feels like a swarm anymore with so many 2+ supply units. Infestors are too strong yeah but some of these ideas arent well thought out and would have massive implications.
You think infestors walking around in a big, passive, non-attacking ball of spell casting feels like a swarm though?
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double the mana cost of infested terrans! 8 infested terrans per a 2 supply spell caster is ridiculous :3
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The main problem occurs when an infestor catches you by surprise, and kills your entire marine force basically instantly (with the help of banelings).
As a master terran player, I think the important thing is allowing terrans a bit more time to react.
If your army is a-moving across the map, the time you have between an infestor appearing in vision to your whole army being fungalled is very small. There needs to be more time for terrans to react and split their marines, at least partially.
This could be acheived by either
1. Slow instead of root (75%ish)
2. Adding a "cast time" to fungal (i.e. you would be able to see where the fungal is about to land and have maybe 1 second to avoid it. This could be a green circle on the ground where a fungal is about to land, for example)
Imo, the damage and area of effect are OK.
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On November 08 2012 19:28 Insoleet wrote:
Zerg needs free supply because 200 200 zergs of only supply-units just get raped by 200 200 protoss or 200 200 terran. Dont forgot this.
The problem with IT is not the fact that they are supply-free. It's that with 25 infestors, its 200 infested terran that can be created in the worst case. And 25 infestors is only 50 supply, 1/3 on the zerg army.
A 3 supply infestor would be : 16 infestors for 50 supply. Only 128 infested terrans maximum.
For 30 supply of infestors, only 10 infestors. 80 infested terran maximum. Way better.
No! this is plain wrong. zerg dont need it, 200/200 zerg must be raped. Why because zerg has the better economy! so It supposed to be that protoss or terran kills the zerg army twice or even 3 times, remember that zerg is the only race that can remax almost immediately and in any composition they want.
About the IT just double their mana cost, the zerg, Is a joke how a stealth unit can be so fucking versatile. Is like if the dark Templar has range and can target air.
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I would like to see a complete remake of the unit. Who ever thought psystorm+maelstorm+mindcontrol all in 1 was a good idea should be fired. Enough of patching already, its HoTS, its the PERFECT excuse to introducing new things.
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Make infestors 3 supply and reduce infested terrans range to 3 (from 5). This would make them less spamable and make air a more viable counter to the zerg deathball.
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Base damage on distance traveled during the fungal growth. Damage is the same for X% (80?) of the distance unstimmed marines can move during that time.
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just increase duration of fungal a bit and/or turn it into slow instead of root.
I think infested terrans are not really too strong, just fungal. I believe IT are just seeing so much use now because infestors see so much use. Of course I could be wrong here but infestors definately shouldn't be overnerfed, they are a transition unit to hive so should always be of some use, just make them a little less spammable. Slightly nerfing fungal as a damage spell should go a long way towards this already I guess.
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Remove infested terran ability and replace it with infested infestor ability, so I can really get a good army going.
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Most of the listed changes are stuff that would require a whole lot other changes to keep zerg viable. The problem with infestors are that you can spam a shit lot of ITs while using a few for fungals. Increase the energy cost of IT, reduce the time it takes for them to morph, and reduce the time they are active. This will make the ITs more of a temporary unit at a specific time instead of constantly 20+ marines under your BLs.
I don't understand why so many of these changes focus on Fungal. It's only extremely good if you walk your entire army in a clump in to unscouted areas, but that's like if I should whine about my entire army dying if I walk up a ramp without vision and I get forcefielded off and killed.
If you were to remove the root effect, you'd have to rebalance a lot of other stuff, since zerg needs it to ever be able to engage lategame since zergs have the slowest army. It would be incredibly easy to pick a part brood lords with stimmed marines/vikings/blink stalkers etc if fungal didn't root.
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On November 08 2012 23:01 LOLingBuddha wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:57 egrimm wrote:
3. Give the neural to viper instead of abduct and buff the spell, propose some other ability for infestor
I am not so sure giving neural to a flying unit is the way to go. the infestors with neural can be picked off theoretically by anything. ( which i think it should be seeing as you take a unit for yourself that doesnt belong to you, usually these are the expensive units too.) an infestor has to be careful trying to get close enough for a neural, you have no such limitations if you now give that ability to a flying unit. I think it would be relatively difficult to take out a viper compared to an infestor.
I agree that it would be realtively difficult to take out a viper compared to an infestor. However right now the difficulty of casting neural with infestors is to big and that's the main reason why don't see neural used almost at all (with the obvious mothership steal exception).
The risk of loosing the costly infestor is just too high to take so zerg players would rather use other infestor's abilities.
I am aware that giving neural to flying unit might cause some problems and for sure will need proper balancing that's why I proposed that casting neural do not give you an instant control over target unit so oposing player has some time to micro and shoot down approaching viper which is during the process of reaching target (similarly how the seeker missile works).
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I think should just remove this unit
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3 pop in stead of 2 would already be huge imo
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nerfing the infestor would make the protoss deathball too strong, basically new strats have to be invented
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On November 08 2012 21:38 GreenAndOrangeTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 20:37 Jimbo77 wrote:
1. FG must not affect Air (indisputable)
2. FG must only slow units by 100% 75% 50% 25% every next second.
3. FG must affect friendly units (storm like)
4. NP must not affect Air (indisputable)
5. IT must cost 50 energy
6. IT can not be spawned while burrowed.
7. Burrowed move must be researched. 1. Not just disputable but wrong. They tried this in the PTR and ZvZ was muta v muta. Also in PvZ there is no way to stop phoenix unless you go hydra. There was a good reason why they didn't go forward with this. 2. Reasonable 3. Crazy for a race that relies on melee units. Would completely destroy infestor ling. 4. Reasonable 5. Only 4 per infestor would massively nerf infestor sneak attacks. 6. Same 7. Reasonable but i don't think that anyone is really concerned about this. I don't think we should just change things for the sake of change. I think the change to 3 supply is a much better change that addresses a lot of the late game strength of the unit while retaining the midgame strength which zerg need need to survive a lot of midgame attacks.
1. The problem with air is that blizzard instead of buffing the hydra, makes zerg relay in a spell. For me is bad design.
2. 
3. Agree
4. NP must affect anything I want
5. Maybe to harsh but must be 40. The idea is to nerf it because simply they are too cost efficient. I want to compare it with a marine drop. First you need to detect it instead of caching it when is flying. Second the cost of the drop is 500 Min 100 gas compared to the 150 100 of the infestor and third, the IT is more strong that the marine and basically are performing the same role. SO IT must cost more energy
6. I believe that IT should be spawned while burrowed
7. Reasonable
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On November 08 2012 23:11 NB wrote:
I would like to see a complete remake of the unit. Who ever thought psystorm+maelstorm+mindcontrol all in 1 was a good idea should be fired. Enough of patching already, its HoTS, its the PERFECT excuse to introducing new things.
That was probably Browder himself. You know how much he loves TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE.
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I really like any nerf on infested terrans eggs. For me is the main problem.
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Wow, I think that the popular vote is pretty much bang-on. Although I would like to see the change made that fungal can't kill units. It makes it a higher-level unit, you have to micro something else at the same time as the infestor. You can't just stare at your 6 infestors and chain spells, you have to bring a roach or smth.
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• remove fungal growth damage
• add attack speed slowing effect (75%)
• increase spell duration by 1-2 seconds
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Currently Zerg loses mid game against Protoss but wins in late. Now people want Zerg to lose in mid and lose in late.
I agree that the current balance isn't how it should be, but Jesus Christ guys its a two way street.
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EPT
