EPTWe are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to Neural Parasite. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.
-Dustin Browder
[Poll] How Infestor could be changed? - Page 36
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
-Dustin Browder | ||
|
DreamChaser
1649 Posts
Or if the fungal was a plague and then you trapped the unit with a few infested terran eggs to one shot the marines left over. The problem i have is that once you are funagled thats it, your army is fucked and its game over at this point since the zerg will just run away fungal-run away-fungal back and forth till your army is dead. | ||
|
ineversmile
United States583 Posts
| ||
|
leb
Canada126 Posts
for example, if you cast fungal over a group of marines, they'll see the animation on that location, but the effect won't start for another second, for example, allowing the player to move his units out of the way. This could allow for some interesting micro, without changing fungal too much. As an aside, I feel like infested terrans are the real issue, moreso than fungal. | ||
|
ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On November 18 2012 10:22 leb wrote: I'm leaning towards changing fungal in a way that allows more micro, a la fungal projectile. Something I think could be interesting was if fungal was "instant cast" but with a delay timer. for example, if you cast fungal over a group of marines, they'll see the animation on that location, but the effect won't start for another second, for example, allowing the player to move his units out of the way. This could allow for some interesting micro, without changing fungal too much. I agree about this being an interesting change, but I'm not sure if it's right. A big part of Fungal's relevance is that it's there to solve problems; be they mass sentry pushes or a lot of bio, or holding blink stalkers/phoenixes in place. I play Protoss and obviously it would make the game easier for me if I could micro out of Fungals with a number of my units, but if Fungal doesn't stop Blink, what do zergs have to deal with it? Lings and Hydras are fine soft counters to blink stalkers, but Fungal is a very long-ranged way of handling blink stalkers+colossi. And that army does need to have answers, or it's just as ridiculous as BL+Infestor. As an aside, I feel like infested terrans are the real issue, moreso than fungal. It's more than it being a 25 energy unit that costs no money; it's also that it costs no larva. Isnt' that supposed to be the upside and downside to Zerg? You live by the larva, you die by the larva. You can build anything from one building, but you need larva for everything. You can build either pure drones or pure units, but once you build something from larva there's no going back. I keep thinking about Necromancers and Rod of Necromancy from Warcraft 3, and needing Skeletons was always a relevant restriction on cheap summons. Units need to cost something. If it isn't minerals or gas, it needs to be supply. If it isn't supply, it needs to be a significant portion of energy. If not that, then there has to be a major cooldown. If not that, then the unit needs to take up Larvae. If not that, then the unit needs to have really crappy statistics. And if none of those restrictions are used, then the unit just needs to get out of the game. There shouldn't be any such thing as a free lunch. | ||
|
lawls544
United States36 Posts
While I agree that indeed khaydarian amulet for HT was very overpowered, I also believe that in the current state of the game, things are not equal between HT and infestors (in terms of energy). My reasoning is that, even though the time between choosing to build an infestor and it actually spawning (with +25 energy from the upgrade for an instant fungal) is about equal to the time between warping in a HT and it having enough energy for a storm, the zerg does not have to babysit a slow/fragile caster for 45 in game seconds. Say that a zerg is under pressure and is building 6 infestors to deflect the agression with fungal growth. They can stall and stall until the infestors spawn, and when they do, the infestors are immediately useful (capable of fungal growth). In contrast, say that a protoss is under pressure and has the gas to build 6 HT to deflect the aggression with storm. They warp in the 6 HT, and they need to keep these HT alive/out of danger for 45 in game seconds until they change from expensive/slow fodder to a useful caster. To me, it seems that zerg players (and also spectators) are able to maintain an "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" mentality when infestors are being built, and their immediate usefulness upon spawning reminds me very much of Khaydarian amulet. Do I have a solution to offer? No. But this is something that has struck me as flawed and that I wanted to share with others. | ||
|
jbui
United States193 Posts
| ||
|
BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
| ||
|
BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
On November 18 2012 10:46 lawls544 wrote: A main argument made about why infestors should have access to their energy upgrade while HT should not is that the +25 energy generation time for a storm is about equal to the build time of the infestor. While I agree that indeed khaydarian amulet for HT was very overpowered, I also believe that in the current state of the game, things are not equal between HT and infestors (in terms of energy). My reasoning is that, even though the time between choosing to build an infestor and it actually spawning (with +25 energy from the upgrade for an instant fungal) is about equal to the time between warping in a HT and it having enough energy for a storm, the zerg does not have to babysit a slow/fragile caster for 45 in game seconds. Say that a zerg is under pressure and is building 6 infestors to deflect the agression with fungal growth. They can stall and stall until the infestors spawn, and when they do, the infestors are immediately useful (capable of fungal growth). In contrast, say that a protoss is under pressure and has the gas to build 6 HT to deflect the aggression with storm. They warp in the 6 HT, and they need to keep these HT alive/out of danger for 45 in game seconds until they change from expensive/slow fodder to a useful caster. To me, it seems that zerg players (and also spectators) are able to maintain an "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" mentality when infestors are being built, and their immediate usefulness upon spawning reminds me very much of Khaydarian amulet. Do I have a solution to offer? No. But this is something that has struck me as flawed and that I wanted to share with others. What is the build time for the infestor? One of the fundamental issues was instantly being able to warp in HT's that had storm capabilities so u need to disregard the difference between build time and time it takes for HT to gain mana. If lets say infestor build time is 30 seconds then its actually only 15 seconds faster than HT which isn't that big of an issue | ||
|
Mentalizor
Denmark1596 Posts
| ||
|
Sacrilege
United States199 Posts
Raven, siege tank, high templar, immortal. It would be more accurate to say no more neural on mothership, but it's not like neural on the above four mentioned units would be useless.[/QUOTE] I feel that you'll never see a effective neural take place on a siege tank or high templar. To easily and quickly it would be for a high templar to feedback the incoming infestors. And a neural on siege tanks would not prove to be worth while at all, provided you even go close in range to neural one that is in siege mode and not focus firing the infestors already. Neural on ravens and immortals though is really interesting though! | ||
|
EvanC
Canada130 Posts
This very much removes the incentive of going mass-mass Infestor. In exchange, the buff the Infestor receives is that Neural gets +1 range and it longer needs to be researched. | ||
|
knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
On November 09 2012 13:26 ROOTT1 wrote: buffing feedback wont help against a superlategame bl infestor army comp because the hightemplars cant reach the infestors in the first place(due to broodlings) and feedbacking a couple of infestors wont change the outcome of the fight. also it will most certainly create new problems for terrans in tvp due to collosus range + observers, protoss could just keep terran's army at bay while feedbacking all their ghosts.. The infestors have to come forward to fungal the stalkers, so the HTs should be able to feedback them then with added range. | ||
|
Warpath
Canada1242 Posts
| ||
|
Die4Ever
United States17741 Posts
| ||
| ||
