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On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. Show nested quote +If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. Show nested quote +None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues. Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote.
I've got the entire quote chain open, and GSTL comes up (using the Find function) only in the quotes you pulled out of context. It's like you're saying Talin said that players don't use computers to win at video games. Good one.
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On October 23 2012 11:19 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:
[quote]
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really.  I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments.  .. Faith in humanity restored! (ehehe  ) There were quite some comments (especially in the Slayers to disband thread). They were banned. Sorry to destroy your faith in humanity.
What?! Nooooooo!
Sidenote: This thread is already going as quick as I can possibly take, why did you have to tell me there's another one that's active!
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On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:
[quote]
There's only been three of those events.
One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one.
Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them.
Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again.
You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh.
Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese).
I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident.
One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly.
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On October 23 2012 11:21 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:
[quote]
I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not.
True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. Oh wow so people can be intelligent. I (or anyone, really) could go into a long-winded rant about gender differences and emotional differences but that, I'm sure, would start up a whole other shitstorm and we have enough drama going on as it is!! Besides in the end I don't think that has anything to do with it. Indeed
Despite all the sadness and anger and emotions riding high, this calms me greatly; perhaps I'll be able to go to sleep already! If everyone had been as level-headed as you, none of this ever would have happened...in the end I find it just sad especially because this really was avoidable no matter which "side" you take. Ah well, such is life, and at least there ARE people like you out there who are able to disagree with others without being nasty or inflammatory...a rare thing today.
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On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:
[quote]
According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly.
that second point is actually a very interesting theory
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On October 23 2012 11:25 th3_great wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly. that second point is actually a very interesting theory
Darn, you beat me to it! That IS an interesting point though!
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On October 23 2012 11:23 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:
[quote]
Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he?
I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues. Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote. I've got the entire quote chain open, and GSTL comes up (using the Find function) only in the quotes you pulled out of context. It's like you're saying Talin said that players don't use computers to win at video games. Good one.
Its about his "argument" that a good team-enviroment/manager/etc does not have an impact on your ability to win. There are more quotes as i said, about the psychological benefits of having a good enviroment, which he refused to look through (offered by another guy here, i just lurked that topic). Its not about the GSTL in particular, they just were talking about that at the time. Also, its hardly pulled out of context when i even recite the question he answered to, is it.
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On October 23 2012 11:24 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:21 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:
[quote]
True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. Oh wow so people can be intelligent. I (or anyone, really) could go into a long-winded rant about gender differences and emotional differences but that, I'm sure, would start up a whole other shitstorm and we have enough drama going on as it is!! Besides in the end I don't think that has anything to do with it. Indeed Despite all the sadness and anger and emotions riding high, this calms me greatly; perhaps I'll be able to go to sleep already! If everyone had been as level-headed as you, none of this ever would have happened...in the end I find it just sad especially because this really was avoidable no matter which "side" you take. Ah well, such is life, and at least there ARE people like you out there who are able to disagree with others without being nasty or inflammatory...a rare thing today.
Thanks, I'm glad you're of the same personality it seems, too bad we have different views on the matter though.
If you want to go to sleep but a bit stressed out about all this, may I recommend watching the Korean variety show (subbed ofcourse) Running Man? :D
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On October 23 2012 11:15 IMLyte wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 05:21 Fionn wrote:
You say I'm the reason why my fiance quit playing?
RELEASE THE PHONE CALL! MORE DRAMA! RAWR! lmao, I thought the exact same thing.
Lol exactly, I wish all this drama would stop and Jessica certainly isn't helping matters. It's clear that both players and management screwed up but there was really no reason to release all this private information to the public after SlayerS imploded. I don't know if it's Jessica's fault that the team broke up but it's definitely her fault that there's all this stupid drama/discussion about it. When oGs disbanded they didn't go around blaming random people to "clear up the story" or whatnot, and thus we all remember them as a great team that fell into some unfortunate circumstances that we don't really know the full details of, and personally I'd rather not know. Whereas with SlayerS we know every dirty detail from several points of view and it's thus hard to have respect for anyone involved, which is pretty sad. She could have easily just said "we were unable to find sponsors and thus had to disband" instead of spilling all the chat logs and whatnot.
I'm honestly happy that she's no longer running a team. I don't know what kind of a person she is, but clearly she should not be managing an esports team.
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On October 23 2012 11:25 th3_great wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly. that second point is actually a very interesting theory
Not to burst both of your bubbles, but that theory already has been aired a couple of times on various threads.
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This article is hard to read through... ugh, Jessica. Ugh.
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On October 23 2012 11:29 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:24 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:21 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:
[quote]
Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. Oh wow so people can be intelligent. I (or anyone, really) could go into a long-winded rant about gender differences and emotional differences but that, I'm sure, would start up a whole other shitstorm and we have enough drama going on as it is!! Besides in the end I don't think that has anything to do with it. Indeed Despite all the sadness and anger and emotions riding high, this calms me greatly; perhaps I'll be able to go to sleep already! If everyone had been as level-headed as you, none of this ever would have happened...in the end I find it just sad especially because this really was avoidable no matter which "side" you take. Ah well, such is life, and at least there ARE people like you out there who are able to disagree with others without being nasty or inflammatory...a rare thing today. Thanks, I'm glad you're of the same personality it seems, too bad we have different views on the matter though. If you want to go to sleep but a bit stressed out about all this, may I recommend watching the Korean variety show (subbed ofcourse) Running Man? :D
Well, different people are just different. Aw, thank you for the compliment, but I don't think I'm that level headed; I can get really emotional especially when first coming into something. It's only after a while I cool down.
I will try that, thank you very much!
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On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:
[quote]
According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly.
The latter point is interesting, but I wonder if it were not simply a case of "if this team fails, they will blame someone, and I have to make sure Boxer is not blamed for the breakdown of this team." Or perhaps a combination of both.
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On October 23 2012 11:26 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:25 th3_great wrote:On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:
[quote]
well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook.
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly. that second point is actually a very interesting theory Darn, you beat me to it! That IS an interesting point though!
I'm just sort of bewildered that this would work. I love Boxer for what he's done, but right now I see a guy who bailed on the team he started because he couldn't make it work and left his gabby girlfriend clean up the mess.
I really wish he had just shut down Slayers himself before he went to his new coaching gig, made a sedate statement about what had happened and why they couldn't go on, and then announced his new job. I don't understand how this approach of Jessica sonic-booming the universe could polish his image any better than that... unless of couse he's deferring to her, but I don't even want to get started on that whole line of reasoning lol
Edit: I feel like I'm in one of those episodes of Star Trek TNG where Picard is trying to negotiate with some weird alien, he offers them a space cookie, and suddenly they're all like GRAWGH I AM OFFENDED FIRE THE FLASHY THINGS
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On October 23 2012 11:27 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:23 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:
[quote]
In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing.
In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues. Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote. I've got the entire quote chain open, and GSTL comes up (using the Find function) only in the quotes you pulled out of context. It's like you're saying Talin said that players don't use computers to win at video games. Good one. Its about his "argument" that a good team-enviroment/manager/etc does not have an impact on your ability to win. There are more quotes as i said, about the psychological benefits of having a good enviroment, which he refused to look through (offered by another guy here, i just lurked that topic). Its not about the GSTL in particular, they just were talking about that at the time. Also, its hardly pulled out of context when i even recite the question he answered to, is it.
But you ignored the part where he said "it doesn't contribute much." "Not much" =/= "nothing."
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On October 23 2012 11:27 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:23 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:
[quote]
In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing.
In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues. Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote. I've got the entire quote chain open, and GSTL comes up (using the Find function) only in the quotes you pulled out of context. It's like you're saying Talin said that players don't use computers to win at video games. Good one. Its about his "argument" that a good team-enviroment/manager/etc does not have an impact on your ability to win.
But you made that argument up.
There are more quotes as i said, about the psychological benefits of having a good enviroment, which he refused to look through.
No, it was about the psychological benefits of "living extravagantly" (or to be more general, about the players' level of comfort). Which I said I'd take into account only if it matches what actually happens in the world of Starcraft.
Meh, this thread is slowly losing its entertainment value.
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I knew Jessica was just twisting the truth. I'm glad that it's all come out, but i'm sad that it had to end this way. I hope that this isn't the end of Boxer's playing career though. That would be the worst of all.
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On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:
[quote]
According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly.
Mentioned this in another thread several days ago, SKT1 ftw! There is indeed some possibility of that being true. SKT guys are spine of KeSPA.
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On October 23 2012 11:30 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:25 th3_great wrote:On October 23 2012 11:23 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:
[quote]
well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook.
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. Spicing it up a little bit. The majority of Taiwanese community sees Jessica as an over-protective mother that puts in too much personal emotion into the management of the team. They see Alicia as a spoiled kid and they did not really appreciate Alicia and Crank's response towards Jessica's claim (MMA's response is not yet translated to Chinese). I think most Asian community will share similar view to this incident. One interesting view point from the Chinese community is that the whole thing is a business strategy to legitimize BoxeR's new appointment as SKT1 head coach. Jessica is trying to create an image of the team disappointed BoxeR, and BoxeR didn't join SKT1 because of money. Thinking about it, I believe Jessica did mention this in her interview, just not as bluntly. that second point is actually a very interesting theory Not to burst both of your bubbles, but that theory already has been aired a couple of times on various threads.
Curses!! XD Well I'm off to sleep now, and I hope this does cool down.
...I just realized this is my 666th post. So I guess I'll do something. -ahem-
Let us all follow in Shival's example and remain level-headed and reasonable in this discussion. Let us not flame one another, because every time you flame someone, Liquid`HerO cries.
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5reK3eCQAA3aid.jpg)
Please think of Liquid`HerO.
...Or something.
(Gosh I hope he doesn't mind me reposting this, but he already posted it on his twitter so...)
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On October 23 2012 11:32 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:27 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:23 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:
[quote]
In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his.
There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues. Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote. I've got the entire quote chain open, and GSTL comes up (using the Find function) only in the quotes you pulled out of context. It's like you're saying Talin said that players don't use computers to win at video games. Good one. Its about his "argument" that a good team-enviroment/manager/etc does not have an impact on your ability to win. But you made that argument up. Show nested quote + There are more quotes as i said, about the psychological benefits of having a good enviroment, which he refused to look through. No, it was about the psychological benefits of "living extravagantly" (or to be more general, about the players' level of comfort). Which I said I'd take into account only if it matches what actually happens in the world of Starcraft. Meh, this thread is slowly losing its entertainment value.
Whatever happens in the world of Starcraft is not of sufficient statistical value to give any weight to the matter of psychological influence. Just too few examples.
May I also recommend Running Man to you for entertainment value?
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EPT
