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On October 23 2012 11:06 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? none atm, unless some bs pops up regarding seeds for the upcoming gsl season... which i hope doesnt happen.
Please don't jinx it. T_T
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On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:02 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on? None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2.
I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad.
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On October 23 2012 11:06 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? none atm, unless some bs pops up regarding seeds for the upcoming gsl season... which i hope doesnt happen.
There's been none, literally the latest one I can remember which can be called drama is Bisu going to SKT from MBC and that's mostly just because fans were in shock of the decision. And that was in what... early 2008 wow that's earlier than I remembered.
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On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:
[quote]
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that.
The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing.
Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are.
Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here.
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On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:
[quote]
None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad.
By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah..
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On October 23 2012 11:07 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? Isn't it well known that the conditions of the kespa players is extremely restricting? I guess a totalitarian society is fine as long as you can't hear the complaints.
._. speaking as if the same standards aren't applied to professionals every where. Come off it.
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On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:
[quote]
They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah..
edit: Nevermind, misunderstood the person it refered to.
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On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:
[quote]
This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here.
I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh.
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On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:
[quote]
There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning.
Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. If you win a match, its solely you. But he also said, that a bad team-enviroment can drag you down. So by this logic, you can not win if you join a team(-house) as a player in regards of benefits, but just lose.
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry.
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On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:
[quote]
There's only been three of those events.
One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one.
Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them.
Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again.
You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh.
I know it won't, nor should it really. 
I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does.
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On October 23 2012 11:10 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:09 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? Isn't it well known that the conditions of the kespa players is extremely restricting? I guess a totalitarian society is fine as long as you can't hear the complaints. ._. speaking as if the same standards aren't applied to professionals every where. Come off it. The same standards does not apply to professionals everywhere. In some places they do, and that's what you call a bad thing.
Restrictiveness and professionalism almost go hand in hand and I would not be surprised if there is direct quantifiable correlation between the two. This isn't the player's personal lives, this is what they do while being under contract. Everyone familar with BW know about all the personal shenanigans that players have had, they just leave it out of their profession.
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On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such?
I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so.
Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. If you win a match, its solely you. But he also said, that a bad team-enviroment can drag you down. So by this logic, you can not win if you join a team(-house) as a player in regards of benefits, but just lose. Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry.
No problem man, it was my mistake!
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On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such?
I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so.
Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game.
No, he didn't.
On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry.
Clearly.
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On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:
[quote]
According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does.
I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet.
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On October 23 2012 11:01 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:55 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever.
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? You can't possible know the true reason as of why he decided not to tell the truth. His intention behind his actions could had been anything. True, nor does he give one. He has been accused of this countless of times, if he cannot give a sufficient reasoning he's done for. So far he's just been giving excuses, even denying accusations on this matter while screenshots and other evidence clearly show he has been asking for foreign teams straight from release.
He's done for regardless by virtue of the fact that he shouted at Jessica. He can probably step out of this drama now (and he should). He's not obligated to clarify for anyone except TB, and TB honestly doesn't give a shit. He trusts Crank, and Crank thus far has not made TB reconsider his decision to recruit him for his team. The worst that foreigners think of Crank is that he's immature and rude; his lying was a result of his immaturity. Given that most foreign pros are similar and that we've forgiven worse from more public figures (I am thinking of two highly visible players), I don't think this should have any impact on how Crank is received in the foreign community. The only issue is if he decides to play in Korea, but even PuMa outlasted his drama, and players like viOlet and fOrGG have shown that it's not necessary to play in Korea to make money.
I am still waiting for someone to justify to me Jessica's reasons for releasing this to the public when she knows how the community will react, namely by shitting on Alicia, MMA, and Crank, all in light of the fact that she hates bullying. What a piece of work.
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On October 23 2012 11:01 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:55 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever.
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? You can't possible know the true reason as of why he decided not to tell the truth. His intention behind his actions could had been anything. True, nor does he give one. He has been accused of this countless of times, if he cannot give a sufficient reasoning he's done for. So far he's just been giving excuses, even denying accusations on this matter while screenshots and other evidence clearly show he has been asking for foreign teams straight from release.
so it's not that he might have lied or that he might not had showed respect but that he refused to give is motivation to as why he left? Which one is it.
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On October 23 2012 11:07 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:06 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? none atm, unless some bs pops up regarding seeds for the upcoming gsl season... which i hope doesnt happen. There's been none, literally the latest one I can remember which can be called drama is Bisu going to SKT from MBC and that's mostly just because fans were in shock of the decision. And that was in what... early 2008 wow that's earlier than I remembered.
You're forgetting the very recent Kespa drama where they tried to get ESF/GOM players into their OSL SC2 tournament while at the same time refusing to commit to the current GSL season. The ESF had to threaten boycotting the OSL tournament entirely before KESPA backed down and agreed to participate in the current GSL season and future seasons.
KESPA will keep on trying to pull their own sleazy tricks whenever they can get away with it. The history of KESPA has taught me to always be wary of them.
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EPT
