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On October 23 2012 10:33 dynwar7 wrote:
Oh God.....its great to see MMA being interveiwed and asked so many questions.
Hope this drama is solved soon......make eSports a good, bright thing to have instead of all this fighting
Drama never gets solved. The community decides to move on to the next thing.
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On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:02 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on? None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2.
Wonder why the richest teams in Starcraft are the best Teams. and i don't see them buying all the ace players of every team.
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On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:02 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on? None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2.
Well, I guess I cannot sway you on this subject. I do admit that sponsors may not have a huge effect on how a player performs I believe you cannot deny it isn't atleast some part of it. Also, in regards to previous comments on this matter, I stand by my words that managers, environment and the like have a huge effect on a player's success.
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nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments.
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On October 23 2012 10:55 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:53 babylon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:45 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:42 boxturtle wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:
[quote]
To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Yeah, attacking CranK here is simply insane. In any other country, he'd be bullet proof. She shouldn't be able to include him in her hit list and succeed simply because he was broke down and acted rudely in a phone call she recorded without informing him. Korea should really get some new laws to protect people from getting fucked over by public figures. Simply a famous person/position attacking someone like this can ruin their lives. I thought the Tablo game was a 1 time incident, but it looks like Koreans make reddit look like children in the drama game. It's really no wonder so many people commit suicide in Korea. People committing suicide in South Korea has nothing to do with what you just said. It's rather due to stress related to excessive bias on school results and subsequent work. Secondly, South Korea has probably the most heavy laws regarding insults. Trolling on the internet is even subject to laws. It's not "rather due to stress related to excessive bias on school results and subsequent work." That's an oversimplification. Cyber-bullying is a huge deal in Korea as well, as you've noted, and do you know what this entire internet campaign of Jessica's is? Ironically, it's that which she herself despises. There is no excuse for dumping this shit out into the public. I understand her airing of the ESF bullying issues, but this smear campaign is ridiculous. She has a position of power simply by virtue of a.) being older and b.) being Boxer's fiance, and she is quite frankly abusing it to ruin the careers of these players. This is not to say that the players are not at fault, but this is something that should've been handled in private. "But what about the duplicitous nature of the players? What if they are rotten apples?" some might cry. Then talk to other team managers about it -- y'know, like what people do about Naniwa -- without throwing all the personal conflicts and differences onto the internet, where you know the Korean mob will bite. Cyber bullying is a huge deal in any western country, that should not be a causality on the increased suicide rate compared to the other western countries.
The content of the messages is more severe in Asian countries, and people feel much freer to shoot out crap about you that is more personal than the impersonal Western insults like "motherfucking fag."
Also, how do you take the rest of my post, since you are firmly in the pro-Jessica camp? Keep in mind that at the beginning of all this drama, I was actually defending Jessica against people calling her a crazy drama queen.
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You're telling me this many people actually read through the wall of text in the OP (and other OPs) and care about who's to blame? LOL c'mon people, go play some SC2.
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On October 23 2012 10:58 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:
[quote]
None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2. Wonder why the richest teams in Starcraft are the best Teams.
I would wonder that as well, if it were true.
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On October 23 2012 10:55 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:
[quote]
To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? You can't possible know the true reason as of why he decided not to tell the truth. His intention behind his actions could had been anything.
True, nor does he give one. He has been accused of this countless of times, if he cannot give a sufficient reasoning he's done for. So far he's just been giving excuses, even denying accusations on this matter while screenshots and other evidence clearly show he has been asking for foreign teams straight from release.
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On October 23 2012 10:57 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:54 Zocat wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:
[quote]
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that.
The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing.
Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. So, do you want to say according to you, Boxer doesnt deserve respect? Are you putting words in my mouth? Because I really hate that. People have different opinions is all I was attempting to say. This isn't even about Boxer - it's about Jessica/Crank/MMA.
I asked you a question. How can this be interpreted as putting words in your mouth?
And it is about Boxer. "no respect to any staff" Boxer is part of that staff.
And you said "it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not". So "it depends on whether you think Boxer deserves respect or not".
And I asked if you want to say that you think Boxer doesnt deserve respect.
You havent answered though.
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On October 23 2012 11:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:58 rasers wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:
[quote]
They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2. Wonder why the richest teams in Starcraft are the best Teams. I would wonder that as well, if it were true.
While that may not be true (dont know), its certainly so that "poor" teams are not on top of stuff.
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On October 23 2012 11:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:58 rasers wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:
[quote]
They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2. Wonder why the richest teams in Starcraft are the best Teams. I would wonder that as well, if it were true.
since you have the SKT Logo. you should know that SKT and KT were the big ones in BW followed by CJ and Samsung.
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On October 23 2012 10:59 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:55 Shival wrote:
Cyber bullying is a huge deal in any western country, that should not be a causality on the increased suicide rate compared to the other western countries.
Let me just throw out an example. You know about how naniwa came off as insulting husky on twitter in their little conversation? Consider a parallel situation in korea, where a young player (early 20's) was insulting a much older (late 20's) caster which is well-respected by the starcraft 2 community and most importantly the professional community. How much shit do you think this player would have been in - in korea? Believe me, we are well off here. And there are differences, huge ones.
Yes, which is also why that example you gave happens less often in South Korea. Cyber-bullying is often between people of same or roughly same age.
Edit: Before we keep bickering about this, various studies show that the increased rate in suicides in South Korea in comparison to other western countries is mainly due to stress related to school results.
I don't mind whether you believe me or not, but please atleast try to get acquainted with the subject.
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On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments.
well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened.
EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo)
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On October 23 2012 11:01 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:57 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 Zocat wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:
[quote]
This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. So, do you want to say according to you, Boxer doesnt deserve respect? Are you putting words in my mouth? Because I really hate that. People have different opinions is all I was attempting to say. This isn't even about Boxer - it's about Jessica/Crank/MMA. I asked you a question. How can this be interpreted as putting words in your mouth? And it is about Boxer. "no respect to any staff" Boxer is part of that staff. And you said "it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not". So "it depends on whether you think Boxer deserves respect or not". And I asked if you want to say that you think Boxer doesnt deserve respect. You havent answered though.
I was actually thinking about Jessica when I typed that, but I think Boxer deserves respect, yes. He's not infallible, but he is Boxer, so yes I respect him...what does that have to do with people having different opinions, though? Some people will say the staff deserves respect, and some people will say the staff does not. However this staff is not just Boxer. Why ask about just Boxer?
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On October 23 2012 11:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:58 rasers wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:
[quote]
They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not account for much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched a surface in Starcraft 2. Wonder why the richest teams in Starcraft are the best Teams. I would wonder that as well, if it were true.
Sigh this argument's already been proven in like every sport, are we really going to say that there's no positive and direct correlation between performance and environment? Olympic winners have the best facilities and best equipment, those who don't abide by the rule are out-liers, the most prestigious educational facilities and training environments yield the best results by virtue of collecting an social environment that perpetuates itself and offering the edge for players to get access to the best technology.
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On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo)
They are still fine?
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Seems to me that Crank is just a baby. In my point of view, Crank had a lot to do with this whole fallout.
He could have talked to Boxer/Jessica about him leaving team/MMA+crew
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On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo)
So what's the latest Kespa related drama?
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On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama?
none atm, unless some bs pops up regarding seeds for the upcoming gsl season... which i hope doesnt happen.
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EPT
