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On October 23 2012 11:13 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:
[quote]
Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists.
I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. If you win a match, its solely you. But he also said, that a bad team-enviroment can drag you down. So by this logic, you can not win if you join a team(-house) as a player in regards of benefits, but just lose. Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. No problem man, it was my mistake! 
Phew. Silly you! 
Sidequestion, in my youth there was a racetrack in the netherlands, called Baalo? Or Barlo? Can't seem to find it, how is the track spelled? :/
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On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:
[quote]
Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists.
I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly.
Mood plays no rule in performance? You are invalidating your own points about the environment of Slayers.
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On October 23 2012 05:21 Fionn wrote:
You say I'm the reason why my fiance quit playing?
RELEASE THE PHONE CALL! MORE DRAMA! RAWR!
lmao, I thought the exact same thing.
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On October 23 2012 11:14 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:01 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:
[quote]
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that.
The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing.
Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? You can't possible know the true reason as of why he decided not to tell the truth. His intention behind his actions could had been anything. True, nor does he give one. He has been accused of this countless of times, if he cannot give a sufficient reasoning he's done for. So far he's just been giving excuses, even denying accusations on this matter while screenshots and other evidence clearly show he has been asking for foreign teams straight from release. so it's not that he might have lied or that he might not had showed respect but that he refused to give is motivation to as why he left? Which one is it.
What? It's all of them.
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On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving. well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook. He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet.
Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments.
.. Faith in humanity restored! (ehehe  )
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On October 23 2012 11:14 tubs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:07 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:06 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? none atm, unless some bs pops up regarding seeds for the upcoming gsl season... which i hope doesnt happen. There's been none, literally the latest one I can remember which can be called drama is Bisu going to SKT from MBC and that's mostly just because fans were in shock of the decision. And that was in what... early 2008 wow that's earlier than I remembered. You're forgetting the very recent Kespa drama where they tried to get ESF/GOM players into their OSL SC2 tournament while at the same time refusing to commit to the current GSL season. The ESF had to threaten boycotting the OSL tournament entirely before KESPA backed down and agreed to participate in the current GSL season and future seasons. KESPA will keep on trying to pull their own sleazy tricks whenever they can get away with it. The history of KESPA has taught me to always be wary of them.
:/ It's hardly the same thing, it's two organizations fighting for rights with in a legal manner. The drama not related to Kespa is people voicing opinions at each other with no standards or legal obligation.
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On October 23 2012 11:15 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Mood plays no rule in performance? You are invalidating your own points about the environment of Slayers.
This would certainly be easier if people didn't make shit up. I didn't say that, and I can't remember having points about Slayers performance in that context either.
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On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:
[quote]
well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook.
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments.
Oh wow so people can be intelligent.
I (or anyone, really) could go into a long-winded rant about gender differences and emotional differences but that, I'm sure, would start up a whole other shitstorm and we have enough drama going on as it is!! Besides in the end I don't think that has anything to do with it.
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On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:43 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:
[quote]
Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists.
I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those. Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637 Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly.
Let me help you.
If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation.
None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of.
Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?"
If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues.
Edit: not to mention the quotes about psychological stuff, which i did not bother to quote.
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On October 23 2012 11:16 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? Isn't it well known that the conditions of the kespa players is extremely restricting? I guess a totalitarian society is fine as long as you can't hear the complaints. ._. speaking as if the same standards aren't applied to professionals every where. Come off it. The same standards does not apply to professionals everywhere. In some places they do, and that's what you call a bad thing. Restrictiveness and professionalism almost go hand in hand and I would not be surprised if there is direct quantifiable correlation between the two. This isn't the player's personal lives, this is what they do while being under contract. But it is about the personal lives. Playing on a korean team is a lifestyle. The team has a responsibility of caring for their environment. This is not a 9 to 5 job, where you do your work and then you're off. If the atmosphere is bad, and you cannot voice your opinion about it-your life-then it is very concerning. That's why Kespa-type environments is not something one would want.
It's actually an legal enforced obligation to have a good environment in Kespa teams, you are misunderstanding the issue. It is a matter of personal preference, some people function better under regimented schedules, and I've rarely ever heard of anyone complain about the environment of Kespa teams. All the people transferring to them have been praising them.
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On October 23 2012 11:14 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. If you win a match, its solely you. But he also said, that a bad team-enviroment can drag you down. So by this logic, you can not win if you join a team(-house) as a player in regards of benefits, but just lose. Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. No problem man, it was my mistake! Phew. Silly you! Sidequestion, in my youth there was a racetrack in the netherlands, called Baalo? Or Barlo? Can't seem to find it, how is the track spelled? :/
No clue I'm afraid, the major ones are Zandvoort and Assen.
Do you know in which province or which city is close to it?
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On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:40 Integra wrote:
[quote]
well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook.
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. .. Faith in humanity restored! (ehehe )
There were quite some comments (especially in the Slayers to disband thread). They were banned. Sorry to destroy your faith in humanity.
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On October 23 2012 11:16 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 11:05 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 11:03 stew_ wrote:On October 23 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
nvm I realize writing in threads like this is meaningless. Esports scene needs to put legal obligations on everything and put every player on contract so there are actually standards for resolving issues instead of qualified arguments. well that's what kespa tried to do... look what happened. EDIT: actually, that's what kespa did. and they still get a lot of shit (mostly deserved imo) So what's the latest Kespa related drama? Isn't it well known that the conditions of the kespa players is extremely restricting? I guess a totalitarian society is fine as long as you can't hear the complaints. ._. speaking as if the same standards aren't applied to professionals every where. Come off it. The same standards does not apply to professionals everywhere. In some places they do, and that's what you call a bad thing. Restrictiveness and professionalism almost go hand in hand and I would not be surprised if there is direct quantifiable correlation between the two. This isn't the player's personal lives, this is what they do while being under contract. But it is about the personal lives. Playing on a korean team is a lifestyle. The team has a responsibility of caring for their environment. This is not a 9 to 5 job, where you do your work and then you're off. If the atmosphere is bad, and you cannot voice your opinion about it-your life-then it is very concerning. That's why professionell environments is not something one would want.
fixed that for you.
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Messed up stuff...really disappointed in Jessica...an entire team doesn't fall apart like this because one player has a bad attitude...
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On October 23 2012 11:19 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:
[quote]
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. .. Faith in humanity restored! (ehehe ) There were quite some comments (especially in the Slayers to disband thread). They were banned. Sorry to destroy your faith in humanity.
Curses, I thought it was just the one that I caught a glimpse of; the illusion of intelligence has been shattered! Nooo. T_T
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On October 23 2012 11:19 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:13 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he? I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. No, he didn't. On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:
Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. Clearly. Let me help you. Show nested quote +If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. Show nested quote +None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. Last quote as answer to "Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?" If "he" really did not, he may want to rethink the way he argues.
I have no idea what you're trying to point out.
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On October 23 2012 11:20 FuGGu wrote:
Messed up stuff...really disappointed in Jessica...an entire team doesn't fall apart like this because one player has a bad attitude...
Well if you would actually read everything you find out she is not blaming one player...
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On October 23 2012 11:19 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:16 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 11:08 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:54 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:52 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Shival wrote:
[quote]
He's off the hook for lying and showing no respect to any staff at Slayers nor the facilities they provided? I guess it depends on whether you think they deserve respect or not. True, although in South Korea, if one is your elder you're pretty much expected to show respect. They even have pretty much a seperate way of saying lots of words to show respect (jondaemal). Ahh, cultural differences and expectations of society once again come up; that explains why the Korean scene is reacting (mostly) the way they are. Exactly why people should read up on culture differences before commenting on this 'drama'. It would negate alot of the comments here. I tend to forget about that fact myself. Silly me. Still don't think it justified how Jessica acted though and I doubt anything will sway me otherwise; sorry~ Eh heh. I know it won't, nor should it really. I'm not entirely ok with Jessica's way of acting either, just more so than the other players, and I can see her reasons for acting the way she does. I'm still blind to the reasoning behind it; perhaps I always will be...I'm surprised there weren't many (any?) cruel comments about her being a woman, however. Given that this is the internet. Good point, I think that's due to most of the 'opposing side' atleast knows that that would devalue their other arguments. Oh wow so people can be intelligent. I (or anyone, really) could go into a long-winded rant about gender differences and emotional differences but that, I'm sure, would start up a whole other shitstorm and we have enough drama going on as it is!! Besides in the end I don't think that has anything to do with it.
Indeed
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On October 23 2012 11:19 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 11:14 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:13 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:12 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:10 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 11:09 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 11:07 KaienFEMC wrote:On October 23 2012 10:55 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:50 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:49 Talin wrote:
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Everyone that it's customary to thank in an interview. He couldn't really have thanked himself, could he?
I'm pretty sure that Razer, Twitch.tv and TLAF aren't responsible for Taeja's success, but they get thanked every time nonetheless. In a way they are, without the sponsors TeamLiquid wouldn't exist and thus Taeja wouldn't be doing what he's doing. In a way that clearly doesn't contribute much to the end result. There are other players playing on the exact same terms as Taeja in that context (same team, same sponsors), and their performance is orders of magnitude below his. There are countless similar obvious examples that point to the same thing - a player's results are his own, and all other factors do not amount to much overall. Good coaching is the only thing that can truly contribute, but that trend has barely scratched the surface in Starcraft 2. I can't believe I am reading this. Acknowledgement of support is not a custom. You are given the "opportunity" to show your "hard work" because there were support at your back. Nobody is trying to deny a player's effort, but the way you show no appreciation for sponsorships and team supports makes me sad. By his logic, being on a team actually would make matters worse for you, so, yeah.. Huh? You lost me completely with that reasoning. Talin said, that a good team-enviroment has no impact on your, uhm, ability to play the game. If you win a match, its solely you. But he also said, that a bad team-enviroment can drag you down. So by this logic, you can not win if you join a team(-house) as a player in regards of benefits, but just lose. Maybe im too tired to get my words straight, if so, im sorry. No problem man, it was my mistake! Phew. Silly you! Sidequestion, in my youth there was a racetrack in the netherlands, called Baalo? Or Barlo? Can't seem to find it, how is the track spelled? :/ No clue I'm afraid, the major ones are Zandvoort and Assen. Do you know in which province or which city is close to it?
Uhm, .. Close to germany? It was Stockcar-Racing though, the cars with the funny little hats. Lets take that to PM, should've thought about that earlier, sorry.
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EPT
