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On October 23 2012 10:31 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:28 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:25 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:23 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Xiphos wrote:On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote:
Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in. They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20. What a ridiculous claim. Maturity comes with age, but you can't decide when. And yet at a certain age you are considered an adult and by that also need to act mature. Dunno how old it is in Korea but doubt higher then 24. Acting mature, and dealing with these kinds of situations maturely are two completely different things. This is not what I call acting immature, it's what I call giving in to emotional pressure. I am not talking about how they act tough. I am just so god dam tired about the "they are just children, only 24 years old" They weren't exactly responding to trivial situations here. It was a complex situation over a long period of time where they were the players were very emotionally involved. You need an extremely strong mentality to deal with this in a proper and mature way, and the reactions of Crank and the players seems to me perfectly reasonable considering the situation they were in.
The point was that they were treated very well. They lied about them. Not thinking about the consequences and thus equal to being irresponsible. But still wishes to be treated as child. That's just as bad as committing murder and still want to have juvenile treatment.
At that age, you are suppose know how to make a proper livelihood with your sweat and blood. Especially in Korea, a country where discipline is very much enforced on a daily basis to train yourself to handle massive pressure in their extreme schooling systems.
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On October 23 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:32 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:25 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:23 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Xiphos wrote:On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote:
Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in. They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20. What a ridiculous claim. Maturity comes with age, but you can't decide when. And yet at a certain age you are considered an adult and by that also need to act mature. Dunno how old it is in Korea but doubt higher then 24. Acting mature, and dealing with these kinds of situations maturely are two completely different things. This is not what I call acting immature, it's what I call giving in to emotional pressure. I am not talking about how they act tough. I am just so god dam tired about the "they are just children, only 24 years old" Tired of the truth? 24 is not children anymore, find me any country in the world that considers otherwise except in your own head and i give you right. Ah you're talking legally. It's amazing that an arbitrary number (a wrong arbitrary number, by the way, Crank and MMA are both twenty THREE, not twenty four) makes people think that suddenly, magically, everyone is supposed to know exactly how to act in exactly every kind of situation when their brains aren't even finished developing fully. I thought it was the personal responsibility of people themselves to be mature, and if you aren't then it's your responsibility thus you suffer the consequences of it. This is such a bull shit argument. You are talking about MMA who's made how much money complaining about not getting private driving from and to air ports? I can name bloody business executives who take care of their own airport transport or take public transit to work. All of their so called allegations of mistreatment have come up with pathetic excuses.
Alicia complained about that. Not MMA. Maybe you shouldn't be so worked up...?
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On October 23 2012 10:18 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:47 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time. Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic. Yet some refuse to believe it. Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. This isn't about apologies and reconciling. If it were, she could have easily made up with Crank and MMA in private. She released a public interview damning those two players absolutely ruining their image and I don't even remember seeing Jessica ask for apologies. Jessica wanted to hurt these players and she's not even trying to hide that saying things like: "you'd better stop unless you want to me release x and y which could hurt you further" as in, if you go against what I say even the slightest, I will attempt to take you down. Funnily enough, Boxer says that's exactly her nature in the phone call.
I still dont see what did she expect to gain from this. She knows everything is over, she is out. Team is out. She could totally silence them in private from the potential bad-mouthing/negative remarks. Piece-of-cake-easy. Sure, she had reasons to get offended. And possibly got hurt of the way players acted in the end; however, only reinforces unprofessional aproach because she went down to drag everything with her. Dirty and personal.
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On October 23 2012 10:37 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 10:32 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:25 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:23 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20. What a ridiculous claim. Maturity comes with age, but you can't decide when. And yet at a certain age you are considered an adult and by that also need to act mature. Dunno how old it is in Korea but doubt higher then 24. Acting mature, and dealing with these kinds of situations maturely are two completely different things. This is not what I call acting immature, it's what I call giving in to emotional pressure. I am not talking about how they act tough. I am just so god dam tired about the "they are just children, only 24 years old" Tired of the truth? 24 is not children anymore, find me any country in the world that considers otherwise except in your own head and i give you right. Ah you're talking legally. It's amazing that an arbitrary number (a wrong arbitrary number, by the way, Crank and MMA are both twenty THREE, not twenty four) makes people think that suddenly, magically, everyone is supposed to know exactly how to act in exactly every kind of situation when their brains aren't even finished developing fully. I thought it was the personal responsibility of people themselves to be mature, and if you aren't then it's your responsibility thus you suffer the consequences of it. This is such a bull shit argument. You are talking about MMA who's made how much money complaining about not getting private driving from and to air ports? I can name bloody business executives who take care of their own airport transport or take public transit to work. All of their so called allegations of mistreatment have come up with pathetic excuses. Alicia complained about that. Not MMA. Maybe you shouldn't be so worked up...?
You are defending lack of personal responsibility. I'm in principle opposition of that.
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Guys....lets keep it nice and peaceful. Of course some debates are allowed , maybe even encouraged....but each time there is a thread like this it always turns out to be a verbal fighting thread in between the TL community...
Just a friendly reminder is all..
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On October 23 2012 10:36 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:34 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:24 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 10:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 10:13 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20. Says who? Says life. Unless you're the sort to wear diapers, be spoon-fed and watch Scooby Doo at the age of 21. -crack- The human brain does not fully develop (mature) until around age twenty five, and of course you wouldn't get used to that right away - it's a gradual process; usually not complete until one is around age thirty. And not a single fuck was given this day The point still stands, and that abuse was just uncalled for. Nice job quickly editing it out before anyone noticed. You can't expect people to act more mature than they actually are. Guess next time at the kindergarden i won't greet the girls working there anymore, could very well be that they're not actually working there, but taken care of. According to some people here at least. Because, you see, some of them are even under 20! Real cute. I know, right? Lets talk real here. If you really consider a 24 year old man a kid, you will not go far in life. You're 21 now, believe me: if you try to sit stuff out because "you're just 21", well, good luck. I just don't get how single mums with kids and job at age 23 can make it. You know, taking responsibility and think. Also, even if you were right, the development of your brain doesn't even matter. The intelligence and "learning experience" is done by that point. A normal 24yo is working his ass off (if he is a decent person) to create a path for his life. Not a whiny manchild. Learning experience is never finished; what are you talking about...
I mean school-stuff. And manners. Don't know another word than learning experience for that. But nice to see that you know what i mean.
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On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:
[quote]
Yet some refuse to believe it.
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players.
I remember there was one other event where she created a shit storm, but I can't remember exactly what it is, so I'll not comment on that.
Her reaction with the eve situation was understandable I'll give you that. But the whole dragon situation was blown out of proportion.
And she's completely in the wrong regarding crank. He wasn't under contract so he had no obligation to continue being on the team regardless of his reasons. And instead of acting like a professional and letting it go Jessica with her huge fucking ego felt the need to ruin his career and publicly slander his reputation.
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MMA blaming Boxer's lost passion on Jessica.
I can kind of see that.
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On October 23 2012 10:36 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:
[quote]
Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed"
Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation.
hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Read it again, it's not that he didn't say he would leave, it's the reasons and explanation he gave when leaving.
well ,if that's the "bad thing" crank has done then I guess he is off the hook.
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On October 23 2012 10:38 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:37 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 10:32 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:25 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:23 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:15 monkybone wrote:
[quote]
What a ridiculous claim. Maturity comes with age, but you can't decide when. And yet at a certain age you are considered an adult and by that also need to act mature. Dunno how old it is in Korea but doubt higher then 24. Acting mature, and dealing with these kinds of situations maturely are two completely different things. This is not what I call acting immature, it's what I call giving in to emotional pressure. I am not talking about how they act tough. I am just so god dam tired about the "they are just children, only 24 years old" Tired of the truth? 24 is not children anymore, find me any country in the world that considers otherwise except in your own head and i give you right. Ah you're talking legally. It's amazing that an arbitrary number (a wrong arbitrary number, by the way, Crank and MMA are both twenty THREE, not twenty four) makes people think that suddenly, magically, everyone is supposed to know exactly how to act in exactly every kind of situation when their brains aren't even finished developing fully. I thought it was the personal responsibility of people themselves to be mature, and if you aren't then it's your responsibility thus you suffer the consequences of it. This is such a bull shit argument. You are talking about MMA who's made how much money complaining about not getting private driving from and to air ports? I can name bloody business executives who take care of their own airport transport or take public transit to work. All of their so called allegations of mistreatment have come up with pathetic excuses. Alicia complained about that. Not MMA. Maybe you shouldn't be so worked up...? You are defending lack of personal responsibility. I'm in principle opposition of that.
Did I ever say that they made good decisions? I'm sorry, all I was ever trying to say is that it's unfair to demonize them when their motivations were obvious and that I'm sick of everyone saying "you're supposed to man up by twenty" just because that's what society arbitrarily decided despite the brain not being developed by then and then wondering why kids in their early twenties still react emotionally to bad situations.
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On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:
[quote]
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far...
Yeah, attacking CranK here is simply insane. In any other country, he'd be bullet proof. She shouldn't be able to include him in her hit list and succeed simply because he was broke down and acted rudely in a phone call she recorded without informing him.
Korea should really get some new laws to protect people from getting fucked over by public figures. Simply a famous person/position attacking someone like this can ruin their lives. I thought the Tablo game was a 1 time incident, but it looks like Koreans make reddit look like children in the drama game.
It's really no wonder so many people commit suicide in Korea.
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On October 23 2012 10:39 Ghola wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:
[quote]
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. I remember there was one other event where she created a shit storm, but I can't remember exactly what it is, so I'll not comment on that. Her reaction with the eve situation was understandable I'll give you that. But the whole dragon situation was blown out of proportion. And she's completely in the wrong regarding crank. He wasn't under contract so he had no obligation to continue being on the team regardless of his reasons. And instead of acting like a professional and letting it go Jessica with her huge fucking ego felt the need to ruin his career and publicly slander his reputation.
I agree that he could do whatever he wanted because he wasn't under contract. But Jessica says the same on various occasions, espcially so in the phone recording. However, the fact remains that he lied, and that's what she's so worked up about.
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On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:
[quote]
Yet some refuse to believe it.
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players.
There was a 4th one, where that Korean journalist publicly bashed Boxer's performance in GSL and Jessica defended him. (edit: actually I'm not sure if people did that so I edit out what stood here), I remember the huge "Boxer support" thread on Teamliquid:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238962
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On October 23 2012 10:22 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:15 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:09 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:06 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 10:02 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:00 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 09:54 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:51 Jimz1469 wrote:On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible. THEY won, not her. Good logic there. Team falls, her responsibility. Team wins GSTL, team's responsibility. The logic is pretty flawless. If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation. If a team falls apart, is ostracised from other teams / the scene, loses sponsors, loses a lot of talented players over a few months with most of remaining players wanting to leave as well, then it is the fault of the management alone. Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on? None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of. They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse). There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL. Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such? I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so. Let me rephrase - there is no evidence that a correlation exists. I have no interest in sifting through random psychology articles that you think apply to the situation at hand. If you have evidence from within the realm of Starcraft, I'd be happy to see those.
Here's a link to SlayersCoca's interview. He scored 3 wins, putting Slayers into the Finals. Who did he thank for his victory?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354637
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On October 23 2012 10:38 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:36 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:24 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 10:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 10:13 tMomiji wrote:
[quote]
Says who? Says life. Unless you're the sort to wear diapers, be spoon-fed and watch Scooby Doo at the age of 21. -crack- The human brain does not fully develop (mature) until around age twenty five, and of course you wouldn't get used to that right away - it's a gradual process; usually not complete until one is around age thirty. And not a single fuck was given this day The point still stands, and that abuse was just uncalled for. Nice job quickly editing it out before anyone noticed. You can't expect people to act more mature than they actually are. Guess next time at the kindergarden i won't greet the girls working there anymore, could very well be that they're not actually working there, but taken care of. According to some people here at least. Because, you see, some of them are even under 20! Real cute. I know, right? Lets talk real here. If you really consider a 24 year old man a kid, you will not go far in life. You're 21 now, believe me: if you try to sit stuff out because "you're just 21", well, good luck. I just don't get how single mums with kids and job at age 23 can make it. You know, taking responsibility and think. Also, even if you were right, the development of your brain doesn't even matter. The intelligence and "learning experience" is done by that point. A normal 24yo is working his ass off (if he is a decent person) to create a path for his life. Not a whiny manchild. Learning experience is never finished; what are you talking about... I mean school-stuff. And manners. Don't know another word than learning experience for that. But nice to see that you know what i mean.
I would still think emotional maturity matters a lot. Maybe I'm wrong...I'm not as immature as I was years ago but I'm sure not done maturing, especially not emotionally...sheesh!
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On October 23 2012 10:42 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:34 Integra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:
[quote]
Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed"
Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation.
hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. According to Cellas recent Twitter Crank did say that he was going to leave the team before this happened. So the last point might not no longer be considered as "truth", until more stuff unfolds... which it will given how things have gone so far... Yeah, attacking CranK here is simply insane. In any other country, he'd be bullet proof. She shouldn't be able to include him in her hit list and succeed simply because he was broke down and acted rudely in a phone call she recorded without informing him. Korea should really get some new laws to protect people from getting fucked over by public figures. Simply a famous person/position attacking someone like this can ruin their lives. I thought the Tablo game was a 1 time incident, but it looks like Koreans make reddit look like children in the drama game. It's really no wonder so many people commit suicide in Korea.
People committing suicide in South Korea has nothing to do with what you just said. It's rather due to stress related to excessive bias on school results and subsequent work.
Secondly, South Korea has probably the most heavy laws regarding insults. Trolling on the internet is even subject to laws.
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On October 23 2012 10:44 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:38 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:34 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 m4inbrain wrote:On October 23 2012 10:24 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:22 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 10:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote:
[quote]
Says life. Unless you're the sort to wear diapers, be spoon-fed and watch Scooby Doo at the age of 21. -crack- The human brain does not fully develop (mature) until around age twenty five, and of course you wouldn't get used to that right away - it's a gradual process; usually not complete until one is around age thirty. And not a single fuck was given this day The point still stands, and that abuse was just uncalled for. Nice job quickly editing it out before anyone noticed. You can't expect people to act more mature than they actually are. Guess next time at the kindergarden i won't greet the girls working there anymore, could very well be that they're not actually working there, but taken care of. According to some people here at least. Because, you see, some of them are even under 20! Real cute. I know, right? Lets talk real here. If you really consider a 24 year old man a kid, you will not go far in life. You're 21 now, believe me: if you try to sit stuff out because "you're just 21", well, good luck. I just don't get how single mums with kids and job at age 23 can make it. You know, taking responsibility and think. Also, even if you were right, the development of your brain doesn't even matter. The intelligence and "learning experience" is done by that point. A normal 24yo is working his ass off (if he is a decent person) to create a path for his life. Not a whiny manchild. Learning experience is never finished; what are you talking about... I mean school-stuff. And manners. Don't know another word than learning experience for that. But nice to see that you know what i mean. I would still think emotional maturity matters a lot. Maybe I'm wrong...I'm not as immature as I was years ago but I'm sure not done maturing, especially not emotionally...sheesh!
I will give you that. Even i (nearly a decade older than you) would not call myself "completely emotionally bulletproof". I'm not saying that you or CranK or whoever should be.
BUT.
You also should be further than a 15 year old boy. Come on.
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On October 23 2012 10:42 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:38 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 10:37 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 10:32 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:29 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 Assirra wrote:On October 23 2012 10:25 monkybone wrote:On October 23 2012 10:23 Assirra wrote:
[quote]
And yet at a certain age you are considered an adult and by that also need to act mature.
Dunno how old it is in Korea but doubt higher then 24. Acting mature, and dealing with these kinds of situations maturely are two completely different things. This is not what I call acting immature, it's what I call giving in to emotional pressure. I am not talking about how they act tough. I am just so god dam tired about the "they are just children, only 24 years old" Tired of the truth? 24 is not children anymore, find me any country in the world that considers otherwise except in your own head and i give you right. Ah you're talking legally. It's amazing that an arbitrary number (a wrong arbitrary number, by the way, Crank and MMA are both twenty THREE, not twenty four) makes people think that suddenly, magically, everyone is supposed to know exactly how to act in exactly every kind of situation when their brains aren't even finished developing fully. I thought it was the personal responsibility of people themselves to be mature, and if you aren't then it's your responsibility thus you suffer the consequences of it. This is such a bull shit argument. You are talking about MMA who's made how much money complaining about not getting private driving from and to air ports? I can name bloody business executives who take care of their own airport transport or take public transit to work. All of their so called allegations of mistreatment have come up with pathetic excuses. Alicia complained about that. Not MMA. Maybe you shouldn't be so worked up...? You are defending lack of personal responsibility. I'm in principle opposition of that. Did I ever say that they made good decisions? I'm sorry, all I was ever trying to say is that it's unfair to demonize them when their motivations were obvious and that I'm sick of everyone saying "you're supposed to man up by twenty" just because that's what society arbitrarily decided despite the brain not being developed by then and then wondering why kids in their early twenties still react emotionally to bad situations.
No one forced them into these situations, they voluntarily created them for themselves. If you can't handle the responsibilities of a position and you can identify that then swap your line of work. It's not like playing SC2 is the only thing that healthy young 20 year olds can do. They don't have learning disabilities and they are making the same assumptions of maturity and responsibility on their peers. Remember when Kespa teams dissolved and Perfectman went ahead and did manual labour in the intervening time? He didn't complain to the bloody esports community about it, he took responsibility.
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I don't understand some of the posts. I've read multiple TLers say MMA provided a very balanced view where he accepted there was some blame on both parties and that makes it more believable than Jessica's account which only favors her.
Well... I've read the both the original article and the translated copy. Ummm... other than his first intro where he says he won't say that the players are right and Jessica is wrong, its kinda resting all the blame on Jessica no?
I mean just because he says, he won't rest all the blame on Jessica doesn't mean he didn't.
Oh just realized the phone transcript has been released and Jessica gave an interview. Let me read that.
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On October 23 2012 10:43 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:30 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 10:26 Ghola wrote:On October 23 2012 10:18 MrCon wrote:On October 23 2012 10:12 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 10:08 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 10:05 Frost wrote:On October 23 2012 09:58 Veldril wrote:On October 23 2012 09:55 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:
[quote]
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt? Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed" Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation. hmm... That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation. And when people lied, the can be very creative too. Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general. To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court. That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever. But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me. This, plus Jessica has a long history of doing shit like this. Stirring up drama, blaming other people for her bad management decisions, distorting the truth for her own benefit. The only reason people take her seriously is because she's boxers wife. There's only been three of those events. One was with Dragon leaving, but she was right in that one. Second was with Eve's pictures put on porn, so she was right to call out those persons and possibly sue them. Third was Crank leaving the team and publicly asking for a foreign team on his stream the very same day, even though he explicitly said he wouldn't do that. So she's right again. You can say that she creates drama, but rightly so, people have been abusive to her and her players. There was a 4th one, where that Korean journalist publicly bashed Boxer's performance in GSL and Jessica defended him. (edit: actually I'm not sure if people did that so I edit out what stood here), I remember the huge "Boxer support" thread on Teamliquid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238962
Ahhh, I stand corrected then  . Ah well, wouldn't necessarily call that a drama event though
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EPT
