Same. No point of being forced to choose a sub-optimal build against a player who's rating is inflated because he chooses random. I ladder to improve my mechanics, not to flip coins aka good luck vs random as protoss on tal darim.

gawk

Germany310 Posts

August 19 2012 19:24 GMT

#263

On August 20 2012 04:10 Zetter wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 20 2012 03:56 Tao367 wrote:

On August 20 2012 03:46 K3Nyy wrote:

On August 20 2012 03:35 ChiknAdobo wrote:
For all the people who are saying you can't get good practice by playing against random I don't think you understand what it means to get good practice. Unless you are tip top masters or GM your opener has the least influential impact on the outcome of the game. Good practice is working on your macro and mechanics effectively. So just because you have to adapt your build a little bit at the beginning that isn't why you lose a game. The main reason why you lose is because you get supply blocked or aren't making continuous workers or not hitting your injects. You don't lose a game because you went 1 gate FE instead of FFE. And for the people who complain about randoms always cheesing (which at higher levels for the most part is false) playing against random challenges your crisis control and scouting. If you are using a build that can't hold off an early pool or proxy unless you know what race they are playing ahead of time then that isn't a good build. So stop the QQ and realize that playing against random forces you to scout better and to really focus on good mechanics.

Totally agree with this 100%.

Most people that complain are too low level to have the right to complain about anything and should just focus on their fundamentals first.

Yeah it's unfair, but no, you're not losing because of it.

I have to disagree with this. I am losing pvr(z)'s because of not being able to ffe. And to your first point, nobody here is complaining abbout in game balance with this, it's the lack of information that provides a huge advantage in the early game to the random player, that depending on the matchup, can affect the late game.

Also, random players can do strategies that normally would not work if the opponent knew the race. Because they queued random, they can get away with certain things. That is where I personally draw a line, when a strategy can work because they queued random.

You realize that there's a lot more openings than ffe in PvZ?
And you realize that ZvP is the hardest matchup for random players, because it's impossible to practice it?

MMR statistics don't lie, Random is by far the weakest race on the ladder. I'm always happy when I play against random, because it means an easier win for me. That stuff about cheesing makes no sense as well. Regardless of the matchup being PvR, PvZ, PvT or PvP, either I scout the cheese and can prepare for it or I don't scout it and am most likely screwed. Since I scout earlier vs Random as well, it's way more easy for me to hold a random cheese than a protoss cheese, which is somewhat impossible, since I scout very late if I know my opponent is toss.

I switched through races and one thing I noticed was no matter what race I played there were opponents telling me in the first minute of the game how cheesy my race would be.
So I now avoid to think of other races as cheesy, but the players I'm facing.

And to OP, one Protoss I know of to 1Gate expand ist axslav, and I like his builds.
Playing vs Protoss is just another challenge, and thats what sc2 is about.
I can take a risk and play Nexus first vs Zerg and complain about scouting his 8pool too late or play gate expand and maybe have a slight disadvantage.
I think there are many more skills involved during a match of sc2 that determine who wins, so try to play to your strengths.
If you lose, gg and try to improve.

Th30nE

United States44 Posts

August 19 2012 19:27 GMT

#264

learn to scout and stop whining, you can 9 pylon scout and still FFE or nexus 1st...... there is nothing wrong with random on the ladder, if anything its good, forces new/less experienced players to actually scout....

Berceno

Spain401 Posts

August 19 2012 19:31 GMT

#265

On August 20 2012 04:27 Th30nE wrote:
learn to scout and stop whining, you can 9 pylon scout and still FFE or nexus 1st...... there is nothing wrong with random on the ladder, if anything its good, forces new/less experienced players to actually scout....

lol, yes sure we will nexus first, autoloss vs P, we can FFE too autoloss if vs P, or we can open with gate, good vs P/T but almost autoloss vs Z, all people scout in 9-15 even in bronze random doesn't make you learn nothing new

xrapture

United States1644 Posts

August 19 2012 19:32 GMT

#266

um... no.

I cc first vs zerg, gas first vs terran, and 1 rax fe vs protoss. So I should be forced to pull a scout insanely early, making my build worse, and have a chance of not seeing anything in time on a 4 player map? Na, would rather just leave. Plus I've played enough randoms to, personally, see justification in the stereotype that they favor gimmicky play and are unpredictable due to their lack of understanding of each race.

gawk

Germany310 Posts

August 19 2012 19:35 GMT

#267

Berceno,
in Bronze you don't know you have an opponent to learn.
Assuming Nony knows his stuff, gateway openings are far from being bad.

Sepheren

United States66 Posts

August 19 2012 19:36 GMT

#268

Random is definitely an unfair advantage. You begin the game with information dissymmetry, the random player has more information than his opponent. That right there is justification for why it should not exist the way it does.

Random should be an option which relieves the player of having to choose his/her race, yet does not hide that information from the matched opponent.

I have no opinions on WHO plays random, or their personal playstyles. My issue is with the game design, which is flawed.

TigerKarl

1757 Posts

August 19 2012 19:41 GMT

#269

I play random because i like all races equally. If an opponent is nice I'll tell him my race, even if he's not even asking for that information.
Be nice to random players on ladder and they might do likewise.

ROOTFayth

Canada3351 Posts

August 19 2012 19:41 GMT

#270

every random player I've encountered so far has told me their race when I asked them, so it isn't much of an issue

jinorazi

Korea (South)4948 Posts

August 19 2012 19:42 GMT

#271

if you think FFE is the ONLY viable opener against a zerg, you should be blaming blizzard and not random players.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

August 19 2012 19:43 GMT

#272

Yeah I hate playing random players. But then 9 times out of 10 they are really bad and it's a free win anyway.

korona

1098 Posts

August 19 2012 19:46 GMT

#273

On August 20 2012 04:24 xrapture wrote:

Show nested quote +

More likely the random player's MMR is not inflated, but much lower than it would be if he used his 'best' race. When you have to manage 9 different match-ups you always have your good and bad mu:s and get much less practice time for each. And the level difference between the best and worst mu may be big. The MMR of the random player is still an average of how he handles all his 9 mu:s. This leads to situations, where the random player may have very high winratios in some mu:s, but very low in some others. So when facing a random opponent at ladder, it is a good chance that he actually is higher level player in that mu than the race picker (or the other way around).

147 Posts

August 19 2012 19:48 GMT

#274

whiners... try playing random urself and see how u manage. Playing random means that u need 2 know nine diffrent matchups and also random vs random.

uberism

Canada271 Posts

August 19 2012 19:49 GMT

#275

LOL at people thinking that there is an advantage to playing random.
There is a reason why no pro player picks random.

decaf

Austria1797 Posts

August 19 2012 19:50 GMT

#276

At my level of play random players will usually tell you the race if you ask them, 4 out of 5 that is. They understand that they gain an unfair advantage over you, this only increases their skill artificially and if they care about getting better more than winning this means it actually does them more harm than good.

It is stupid that you have to rely on your opponent's discretion though. I think all players should have equal chances when the game starts.

I understand that random players have to learn more matchups than others thus I think they should have the dice symbol plus the specific race they rolled shown at the loading screen to give them credit for playing random.

silentsod

United States198 Posts

August 19 2012 19:51 GMT

#277

I am a random player who switched from purely Terran to purely Zerg to Random and I have to say that 1) I get cheesed a hell of a lot 2) it's much more difficult trying to work on three races' mechanics, timings, and unit control than focusing on one and 3) I get insulted, called cheesy, etc when I go for macro games for each and every race.

Godwrath

Spain10139 Posts

August 19 2012 19:53 GMT

#278

To be honest, random shouldn't be secret. Just random. So when you get into the loading screen, you actually see the race. Dunno, maybe it's me, if people play random for the secret, it's because most people want to cheese/get their opponents offguard. If you honestly want to improve with other races, you wouldn't care if your opponent knows your race.

d00p

711 Posts

August 19 2012 19:53 GMT

#279

Is there some reason why this "[D]" has to be had every couple of months? Seriously no one has anything new to say about this. The op lost a pvz. Does that really warrant yet an another thread like this?

LordOfDabu

United States394 Posts

August 19 2012 19:58 GMT

#280

It's a 4th race and should be treated as such.