EPTRandom and its place on the ladder - Page 12
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Troxle
United States486 Posts
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BBQ`BBQKingPrime
25 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 20 2012 02:21 Arghmyliver wrote: My favorite part of this debate is the "I know Random players just cheese so I just 4Gate/6Pool/ProxyRax to show them!" Playing Random - I got cheesed far more often than I ever cheesed myself. And because of this random player has to scout or prepare for proxies and other cheeses/all-ins every match if he wants to be safe. It is not too uncommon to face _blind_ aggressive cheeses or extra greedy openings from opponents who think that random players get too big advantage due that their race is not revealed in the beginning. Thankfully lots of these people who are more likely to do blind cheeses reveal themselves by starting to complain about random or demanding you to tell your race in the beginning of the match. And if they someday decide to reveal random player's race during the loading screen, I truly hope they do not also reveal that he is a random player. Some of these same 'random haters' would then deduct that their opponent may be lower level in that match-up and then proceed to cheese or do some all-in. (By the way as trivia: Currently the random player gets to know his race only when the match starts and then has to choose his strategy on fly. His race is not revealed to him during the loading screen.) | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On August 20 2012 01:34 Torte de Lini wrote: What's wrong with scouting incredibly earlier than usual? You lose mining time, but regardless, that small amount of mining time doesn't play that huge of a role given how imperfect your play is. The argument that "Oh, your play is not perfect so is doesn't matter" is flawed. An advantage is an advantage no matter what skill level it is presented to. changes in builds and scout patterns might actually hurt lower level players more, considering they have to do something they are unacustomed to. The facts are, a random player has a real advantage over the other player because one players race is declared and the others is not. This akin to one player having the map explored with only FoW, and the other player not knowing what formations are on the map until he explores it (for those who played some of the older RTS games.) basically my point is this. Random is getting an advantage THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR PLAY before the game even starts. The only thing that midigates this is the meta-game, which changes all the time. Random should be and option for bored people, or people that like all the races, but what race they are going to spawn as sould be displayed on the loading screen. | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
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Greenwizard
48 Posts
On August 20 2012 02:12 ProxyKnoxy wrote: I just 2 gate proxy vs random. I refuse to play normal vs someone who has an unfair advantage at the start of the game and who will most likely be trying to cheese me anyway I had to start with this but now to the serious stuff : Most people i am sure have a standard opening for example and since the most hate protoss vs random(zerg) i am gonna point out these the most. Versus zerg as protoss usually you go nexus first or forge nexus into voidrays, imortal sentry,7 gate, blink stalkers etc. Most of you use that build almost always so you have the best win rate. So you have 3 standard openers versus the 3 races , what random does it forces you ( sadly it forces protoss more then others it seems to adapt ) , you have to LEARN another opener to adapt to the "4'th race". So all i can say is ... try and look up some strategy that might work versus random zerg. I am masters as random (used to be master with terran )and the false impresion that random players cheese comes from the fact that they get cheesed so much it's incredible especially by protoss ( they seem to have the hardest versus random) so i just adapt going into a very "cheesey get a lot of units early/sacrifice a little tech and economy - defend - win mode" . My advice would be , don't fear random , if you are afraid of cheese just scout a little better and you will be ok. | ||
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uberism
Canada271 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314589 if you dont want to play a random player, leave the game immediately. or wait until your balls drop, and realize its not a real issue. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
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Savant.GL
Germany502 Posts
you can choose random but the race it determines should be displayed otherwise it isn't a strategy game but one of chance. Also "throwing off the game compensates because they lack the refined play of a single race" how is this good for a game of skill and strategy | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
To the people saying that random is supposed to have a small advantage over you, it's the player who picks random who CHOOSES to gimp himself by needing to learn three races. It's HIS fault that he wants to play random. I should not be affected in any shape, way or form by HIS choice. If someone chooses to play on a laptop with the touchpad, it's HIS fault that he is gimping his performance and I should not be forced to use a touchpad instead of a mouse because of this. | ||
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reki-
Netherlands327 Posts
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VyingsP
France174 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:17 BBQ`BBQKingPrime wrote: If ladder actually meant something, it would have been a farce that the loading screen doesnt tell what race your opponent randommed. You realize that in tournament the loading screen won't show the race either, don't you ? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:37 Savant.GL wrote: The fact that it is called random shows it should have no place in a strategy game. you can choose random but the race it determines should be displayed otherwise it isn't a strategy game but one of chance. Also "throwing off the game compensates because they lack the refined play of a single race" how is this good for a game of skill and strategy You're attaching more significance to it than is deserved. At the end of the day you're still playing against a Zerg a Terran or a Protoss. The only thing that changes is that you have to slightly adjust your starting build if you don't scout your opponent right away. That's all that changes. Randoms aren't making this game require any less strategy, they're just requiring YOU to scout more and not rely on a gimmick opening. | ||
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unteqair
United States308 Posts
There is also a reason there is no successful random pro. Apparently the advantage given doesn't outweigh the disadvantage. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:35 ChiknAdobo wrote: For all the people who are saying you can't get good practice by playing against random I don't think you understand what it means to get good practice. Unless you are tip top masters or GM your opener has the least influential impact on the outcome of the game. Good practice is working on your macro and mechanics effectively. So just because you have to adapt your build a little bit at the beginning that isn't why you lose a game. The main reason why you lose is because you get supply blocked or aren't making continuous workers or not hitting your injects. You don't lose a game because you went 1 gate FE instead of FFE. And for the people who complain about randoms always cheesing (which at higher levels for the most part is false) playing against random challenges your crisis control and scouting. If you are using a build that can't hold off an early pool or proxy unless you know what race they are playing ahead of time then that isn't a good build. So stop the QQ and realize that playing against random forces you to scout better and to really focus on good mechanics. Totally agree with this 100%. Most people that complain are too low level to have the right to complain about anything and should just focus on their fundamentals first. Yeah it's unfair, but no, you're not losing because of it. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:36 U_G_L_Y wrote: Random have to learn 9 matchups, however it is imbalanced against Protoss, especially on big maps, because of bad game design. Blizzard has created a game with ONE viable build in a match-up and that is retarded. Except there's more than 1 viable opening for any Protoss match up. You just have stop relying on the crutch that is the Forge Fast Expand to figure that out. | ||
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