• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:39
CEST 16:39
KST 23:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202537RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 703 users

Epm Versus Apm, what the difference? - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
AcrosstheSky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States237 Posts
February 22 2012 07:40 GMT
#61
Doesn't matter, just play better.
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
February 22 2012 07:47 GMT
#62
I can't help but laugh at the numbers being the wrong way around. Also, I can't help but laugh at the number of people who are confused and think the numbers aren't the wrong way around. My entertainment will have to die once Blizz switches them.

I wish somebody would make the APM number represent an actual EARTH minute....
twitch.tv/duttroach
CruiseR
Profile Joined November 2004
Poland4014 Posts
February 22 2012 16:40 GMT
#63
I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ?
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
February 22 2012 16:51 GMT
#64
On February 22 2012 07:12 JDub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:05 Bagration wrote:
Efficient actions per minute, compared to actions per minute. EPM is lower but is more important

Not true. Continuously cycling through your control groups is actually very important (it is a key part of macroing well). Right-click spamming, on the other hand, is the worst kind of spamming you can do (it hurts your macro and multi-tasking to spam clicks instead of being precise). Click spamming counts in both EPM and APM, whereas control group cycling only counts in APM. Both are not very useful, but EPM is even more worthless than APM.


Looks like Blizzard got EPM and APM mixed up in their system, and hopefully it gets fixed soon. EPM, not the mistaken system that Blizzard is using right now but the actual number of efficient actions, is more important. It is what makes players with relatively low APM like Sjow and Goody competitive, and what makes Flash untouchable in BW.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
TheV
Profile Joined August 2010
Brazil107 Posts
February 22 2012 16:59 GMT
#65
How can Blizzard mess up something apparently so simple, QA didn't check at all if the APM/EMP calculations were correct?
Storm is coming that cannot be avoided.
YehOfCourseImOP
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom23 Posts
February 22 2012 17:01 GMT
#66
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote:
Just tested it in game.

APM = EPM
EPM = APM

I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards.


I realised this too so I came too see if anyone had posted it yet, good spot
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8095 Posts
February 22 2012 17:03 GMT
#67
Wonder why there was no prt for this patch... Guess they wanted to use MLG as a prt for it.
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
February 22 2012 17:09 GMT
#68
Yep. This is a sick joke. Blizz can't even name APM correctly.

APM=EPM
EPM=APM
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Passion
Profile Joined December 2003
Netherlands1486 Posts
February 22 2012 17:18 GMT
#69
While browsing through this thread, I started to wonder; is it really "efficient APM"?

Effective would make so much more sense...
Aela
Profile Joined January 2012
97 Posts
February 22 2012 17:22 GMT
#70
EffectiveAPM should be the thing to look for. Look at ViBEs APM last year... he had like 400 but it was not because he was fast, it was because he was SPAMMING like crazy. With EAPM spamming doesn't count.
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
February 22 2012 17:27 GMT
#71
On February 22 2012 06:58 Agamo wrote:
Im just asking the difference, and which one is more important and which one i should be paying attention to.

I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch

Thanks!


Neither because blizzard is attempting to equalize them, so that someone like you or me only plays a few less APM than a pro player because the extra actions that a pro player takes will not be counted because they're "spam." Just in general though from what I think i recall some korean pro had like 150, so you could probably pick it up quite a bit.
XiGua
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden3085 Posts
February 22 2012 17:29 GMT
#72
EPM is APM in this patch... Haha, what a fail! xD
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) APM, Why u make me spam?
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 17:44:58
February 22 2012 17:40 GMT
#73
I can't believe they managed to get the numbers the wrong way around - that indicates literally nobody checked the work had been done properly. Not the programmer who made the change, not the QA guys, and not a single person "sanity checking" the patch. It's almost impossible to comprehend how such an obvious mistake could be allowed to make it to release.

I just use SC2gears anyway. It's APM values have always been consistent, the way it calculates what APM is "effective" is far more sensible, and you can even swap between "game time" APM and "real time" APM at your leisure.



:: USE SC2GEARS IT IS GREAT ::



On February 22 2012 16:47 dUTtrOACh wrote:
I wish somebody would make the APM number represent an actual EARTH minute....

SC2Gears can do this.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
Maniak_
Profile Joined October 2010
France305 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 18:04:07
February 22 2012 17:59 GMT
#74
On February 23 2012 01:40 CruiseR wrote:
I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ?

Nope. Fixing the "game time != real time" problem is still in the "yeah we know... we'll try to do something about it" basket in which browder put it at blizzcon 2011.

Hopefully it will be fixed in HotS and hopefully most of the devs are working on it instead of on patches for WoL. That's the only thing I can think of to explain the botched up job of the 1.4.3 patch release. Not sure I believe it though :/

I mean... nearly 4 months since 1.4.2, 3 balance changes, a half release on NA with battle.net not fully updated causing the phoenix upgrade to not be available in ladder games and now this. Inverting APM and EAPM is minor but still... do they outsource QA to CS players?
"They make psychiatrists get psychoanalyzed before they can get certified, but they don't make a surgeon get cut on. Does that seem right to you?" -- Jubal Early - Firefly
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
February 22 2012 18:10 GMT
#75
On February 23 2012 01:40 CruiseR wrote:
I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ?


Why do people even care about this? It's just a number... What difference does it make if it shows how many clicks you made in 45 seconds or in 60?? In the end, everyone is being compared by the same standard, if yours is 200 and someone else's is 100, congrats, you're faster, what difference does it make if it's a minute or 45 seconds or 30 seconds?
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 18:12:58
February 22 2012 18:12 GMT
#76
I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch

80 ish apm
88ish epm

...how the? :o
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
February 22 2012 18:15 GMT
#77
On February 23 2012 03:12 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch

Show nested quote +
80 ish apm
Show nested quote +
88ish epm

...how the? :o

EPM = APM
APM = CPM
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3682 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 18:20:47
February 22 2012 18:18 GMT
#78
APM (or for some reason in game EPM) are Actions per (Blizzard) Minute aka how many clicks you do within one blizzard minute.
How that other number comes to be though, I have no effing idea, all I know is that it somehow filters out actions to ensure that a masters player can have the same "apm" as a silver league player.
I love how they brought back real APM after people bitched about their stupid new shit and yet they mess up the name and it's still not real apm, good thing sc2gears exists.
CruiseR
Profile Joined November 2004
Poland4014 Posts
February 22 2012 18:37 GMT
#79
On February 23 2012 03:10 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 01:40 CruiseR wrote:
I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ?


Why do people even care about this? It's just a number... What difference does it make if it shows how many clicks you made in 45 seconds or in 60?? In the end, everyone is being compared by the same standard, if yours is 200 and someone else's is 100, congrats, you're faster, what difference does it make if it's a minute or 45 seconds or 30 seconds?



i do care, because i would want to know if im faster or slower than 10 years ago when i was playing broodwar
ThomasHobbes
Profile Joined October 2010
United States197 Posts
February 22 2012 18:50 GMT
#80
On February 23 2012 02:22 Aela wrote:
EffectiveAPM should be the thing to look for. Look at ViBEs APM last year... he had like 400 but it was not because he was fast, it was because he was SPAMMING like crazy. With EAPM spamming doesn't count.


Spamming is often beneficial and sometimes necessary. Eapm is flawed on a count of its arbitrary nature.
"The life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 2
Reynor vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena11596
ComeBackTV 2569
TaKeTV 637
Hui .571
3DClanTV 385
Rex258
EnkiAlexander 237
CranKy Ducklings175
mcanning171
Reynor149
UpATreeSC121
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena11596
Hui .571
Rex 258
mcanning 171
Reynor 149
UpATreeSC 121
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4343
Barracks 1887
Flash 1877
BeSt 1527
Jaedong 1498
EffOrt 1056
Mini 582
Stork 496
ggaemo 377
Snow 357
[ Show more ]
Soma 272
GuemChi 266
ZerO 253
Soulkey 252
ToSsGirL 188
Rush 132
Hyun 107
TY 57
soO 55
Sacsri 38
Sea.KH 35
scan(afreeca) 26
Terrorterran 14
Movie 14
Yoon 11
ivOry 9
Bale 7
Britney 0
Dota 2
syndereN412
XcaliburYe295
420jenkins289
Counter-Strike
sgares671
flusha135
edward65
Super Smash Bros
Westballz40
Other Games
singsing2040
hiko1301
B2W.Neo1057
crisheroes444
Fuzer 168
ArmadaUGS108
KnowMe50
QueenE49
ZerO(Twitch)20
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH281
• Adnapsc2 3
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1624
• WagamamaTV564
League of Legends
• Nemesis4058
• TFBlade799
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
19h 21m
TBD vs Zoun
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs ShoWTimE
TBD vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.