• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:31
CEST 16:31
KST 23:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
GSL CK - monthly team event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1479 users

Epm Versus Apm, what the difference? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
gubbstrut
Profile Joined September 2011
Sweden39 Posts
February 23 2012 20:04 GMT
#101
Or maybe its just cause they nerfed apm earlier so its not including all the spam - aka not being on 450apm.
while epm is not effected by that change since its new and something completly diffrent, so if you compare the epm to the old apm im pretty sure that your epm will be lower.
neverlast
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria62 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 10:11:25
March 01 2012 10:43 GMT
#102
ok looked into this. Right now - big difference between those 2 is - tabbing & boxing (which does in the end the same namely selecting units) is only counted in EMP.

unless I am wrong but spamming waypoints (units or buildings) counted in both APM and EPM. I think is a rollback change to the old apm, right?



Name of Action --------------------- (APM & EPM)

move units------------------------------ (APM & EPM)
move unit with minimap------------ (APM & EPM)
waypoint set with mouse---------- (APM & EPM)

defining controlgroups ------------------------- (only EPM)
tabbing controlgroups------------------------- (only EPM)
boxing something------------------------------- (only EPM)
select unit with mouse------------------------- (only EPM)

minmap click view change-------------not tracked
set viewpoints------------------------------not tracked
swap viewpoints---------------------------not tracked
mouse scrolling ---------------------------not tracked


The 3 races in bronze are: 6pool, cannon rush and bunkers. | Native Bronze Player since 2010
OutofmymindSC2
Profile Joined January 2012
Bulgaria80 Posts
March 01 2012 10:54 GMT
#103
I think its pretty amazing how Blizzard totally messed this feature. APM was perfect the way it was (originally - counting every click) Way to confuse everyone know with both rather than just bring back the proper one that weve had for years.
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3599 Posts
March 01 2012 10:54 GMT
#104
Blizzard is really hurting my brain, too:

- A minute consists of 60 seconds? NO! We have the blizzard minute, because SC2 is not being played in normal time!
Seriously, that's complete bullshit.

- APM / EPM / WTFPM? Why don't you just count every click per minute and call it APM? Because an action is an action, even if it's useless. Of course, an EAPM calculation can be added to spice it up. (I think the SC2Gears APM stuff is pretty accurate)
first we make expand, then we defense it.
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
March 01 2012 12:06 GMT
#105
Get sc2gears, and never rely on replay APM again.
perestain
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 12:18:28
March 01 2012 12:15 GMT
#106
mindboggling how such a simple concept can be fucked around with until it is just a big pile of bullshit.

The idea of APM is actions per minute, which just means how many keys are pressed per time.
It is a value that can be measured exactly, and people generally know how to interpret it.
A c t i o n s P e r M i n u t e. Just like miles per hour. Not that complicated, right?


I dont know which nutjob got the shitty idea to try to invent an algorithm which decides which of the actions are likely to be effective for winning and which aren't. Its completely a matter of opinion and therefore bullshit trying to objectively measure that.

The blizzard time made the numbers of normal apm too small by a factor of 1.4, but it was still an exact measurement.
Not nice, but bearable.

The blizzard new apm however, is just a number without meaning that some shitty algorithm generates. Everyody just has 80 Blizzard apm, from gold to grandmaster. And then they sell it as "APM" which it clearly isn't. It is not even a measure. It is APM folded by some glitchy algorithm which results in a number around 80 every time.

Think of a broken guitar effects pedal that takes your guitar signal and just produces that one single annyoing noise and nothing else. Thats what blizzard apm is.
No matter how hot it gets, sooner or later there's a cool breeze coming in.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
March 01 2012 12:17 GMT
#107
APM is just spam. I played a 2v2 with my friend where I just shared unit control and spammed so I had 1023 apm for a match but only 9 epm. EPM is basically the measure of what you're actually doing
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
nface
Profile Joined June 2011
106 Posts
March 01 2012 12:23 GMT
#108
Yeah they just switched those two. The APM that shows on EPM now is the one you should stick to, since the other one is from blizzard and makes absolutely no sense.
perestain
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany308 Posts
March 01 2012 12:28 GMT
#109
On March 01 2012 21:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:
APM is just spam. I played a 2v2 with my friend where I just shared unit control and spammed so I had 1023 apm for a match but only 9 epm. EPM is basically the measure of what you're actually doing


No it isnt. Since you cannot define what actions should be considered effective (because different people have different opinions on that) any algorithm that claims to correctly decide this must be bullshit.

apm does not differentiate if you spam or do something worthwile, but at least it is an exact measurement of how many keys you are able to press.
epm (which is called "apm" ingame btw) is just an arbitrary number which tells you nothing. Especially not what you're doing or how you're doing.
No matter how hot it gets, sooner or later there's a cool breeze coming in.
kcbgoku
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland156 Posts
March 01 2012 12:30 GMT
#110
Don't look at them at all, they are both not an actual APM, so don't bother.
blamekilly
Profile Joined April 2011
466 Posts
March 01 2012 14:29 GMT
#111
On February 22 2012 06:58 Agamo wrote:
Im just asking the difference, and which one is more important and which one i should be paying attention to.

I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch

Thanks!



If you have 80 apm/epm and still gold, you need to slow it down and focus more on the game. heck I have 60-100 and in low masters. I don't spam buttons all game long tho, some people do that to inflate their numbers.
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
March 01 2012 15:09 GMT
#112
blizzard fked up replay sistem , actualyt the APM is EAMP and the AMP is EAPM .
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
RaiD.RaynoR
Profile Joined February 2012
United States294 Posts
March 01 2012 15:13 GMT
#113
Work on decisions more if ur in gold dont worry about apm or eapm as it will naturally cum
Redemption is the consequence of forgiveness
gabbegubbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden67 Posts
March 01 2012 15:18 GMT
#114
My EPM is constantly higher than my APM. That can't be right. I'm on a mac so it might be something wrong with the patch on the osx?
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
March 01 2012 15:19 GMT
#115
On March 02 2012 00:18 gabbegubbe wrote:
My EPM is constantly higher than my APM. That can't be right. I'm on a mac so it might be something wrong with the patch on the osx?

no blizzard screwed up and made EPM the one that is actual apm. I have like 70-80 apm and 190+ EPM
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
March 01 2012 15:41 GMT
#116
It's crazy to me that they found way to fuck up APM, not once or twice, but continuously since SC2 has come out.

The important thing about Blizz APM is that neither one of them are actually APM because neither one of them is actually measured by minutes or seconds, but by a unit of time which Blizzard actually made up. Wish I were kidding about that
Petrone
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden47 Posts
March 01 2012 23:51 GMT
#117
Even though I feel that the whole APM system is kinda fucked up, I still think it counts at least for me it's to be able to compare how "fast" I play against other people at my level. Not as a holy shit I must get 200 epm this game but as an indicator for me to see how well I did. The main things I look for in my replay is how fast I play and if I miss injects in key moments and also worker counts. Most often APM/EPM maybe not so much APM as EPM is an indicator if I keep up all the things I should do, because I usually don't just spam to get APM/EPM but I try to do more things at once like moving my army, injecting and scouting and for me it works to be able to want to increase my APM as it reminds me of thinks I need to do when I think damn I'm playing slow atm. It's not as much about if I get 100 or 150 in different versions as long as the whole process of important things count so that I can compare from game to game.
Nu blir vi farliga!
Josh_rakoons
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom1158 Posts
March 01 2012 23:55 GMT
#118
WHY DO WE NEED 2 BILLION THREADS ABOUT A RIDICULOUS USELESS UNIT THAT DOESNT MATTER.

Please. Stop. Making. These.
Striker.superfreunde
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany1120 Posts
March 02 2012 00:46 GMT
#119
There will be a service update tonight.. in two hours probably. Maybe they fix it
'Your ak is pretty... uhm... dank!'
Altern
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1053 Posts
March 02 2012 00:53 GMT
#120
I just wish we had realtime instead of Blizzard time! APM has gone through so many changes I just forgot about it.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 268
Hui .240
trigger 115
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5183
Horang2 2902
Bisu 2827
Jaedong 2179
EffOrt 757
Soma 714
Shuttle 608
Stork 466
Larva 404
Aegong 362
[ Show more ]
Snow 324
Light 260
ZerO 251
Mini 250
Soulkey 230
Hyuk 227
ggaemo 185
Rush 181
hero 81
JYJ 78
[sc1f]eonzerg 52
Backho 46
Sharp 45
Shinee 43
sSak 37
Hm[arnc] 32
Movie 31
910 17
zelot 16
Noble 16
Sacsri 15
Terrorterran 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
soO 13
Dota 2
Gorgc4613
qojqva2620
Counter-Strike
fl0m1938
oskar92
Other Games
singsing2403
Liquid`RaSZi1283
B2W.Neo801
hiko697
Lowko366
crisheroes296
RotterdaM217
XcaliburYe151
XaKoH 124
QueenE78
ArmadaUGS74
Mew2King70
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV551
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 425
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV490
• lizZardDota251
League of Legends
• Nemesis3214
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 29m
Replay Cast
18h 29m
Kung Fu Cup
21h 29m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.