EPTI am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch
Thanks!
Epm Versus Apm, what the difference?
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Agamo
Canada5 Posts
I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch Thanks! | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
just take apm as a measurement of how fast your hands are. eapm is just pointlessly complicated. | ||
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Xercen
United Kingdom375 Posts
epm is how efficient you are when you spam your buttoms. It was suppsed to be CPM (commands per min). No idea what the EPM means | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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ZessiM
United Kingdom232 Posts
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oxxo
988 Posts
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Agamo
Canada5 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:01 Diamond wrote: How do you have a higher EAPM then actual APM? Thats exactly what i was wondering, i thought apm was just clicking and every action you do(like original) and Eapm was actions that are effective negating spam(just before this patch) | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:02 ZessiM wrote: i've never heard of epm EPM is efficient APM. Takes out some of the spam out but still an arbitrary way to define what is efficient or not. | ||
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stanik
Canada213 Posts
I believe they mixed up the EPM and APM calculations because APM should be higher than EPM. EPM is supposed to remove keypresses that have no commands issued with it (ie. cycling through your buildings), while APM is supposed to include every button your press as an 'action'. Blizzard called it CPM in the patch preview, it is now called EPM. | ||
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pique
143 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
I think cycling through my buildings is far more effective use of APM than just clicking on a spot 20 times for a move command, you have to see when your units finish, when your upgrades finish etc. Why do they even put stuff like this in, wth is this? The only thing they achieve with this is to make it overly complicated for every new player who has no idea what APM or EAPM means, also its so much confusion if you compare your APM with other players lol | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:03 Agamo wrote: Thats exactly what i was wondering, i thought apm was just clicking and every action you do(like original) and Eapm was actions that are effective negating spam(just before this patch) Blizzard has fucked apm up so much it doesn't make a difference. It's hardly useful anymore in either form. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:05 Bagration wrote: Efficient actions per minute, compared to actions per minute. EPM is lower but is more important Not true. Continuously cycling through your control groups is actually very important (it is a key part of macroing well). Right-click spamming, on the other hand, is the worst kind of spamming you can do (it hurts your macro and multi-tasking to spam clicks instead of being precise). Click spamming counts in both EPM and APM, whereas control group cycling only counts in APM. Both are not very useful, but EPM is even more worthless than APM. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But APM will be actions per minute, and the other thing will ignore spamming. In any case the highest number will be your apm, the other number the other thing. Oh and both numbers aren't true still i belief, as they count in ingame minutes. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. | ||
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Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
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1hpBuiltForLove
Canada89 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:03 oxxo wrote: Neither matters. If your hands can do what your mind wants then your apm is enough. If it can't then it isn't. That's what I have been trying to say all along, but I could never find the words. | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:09 Kimaker wrote: Blizzard has fucked apm up so much it doesn't make a difference. It's hardly useful anymore in either form. Yeah, I'm on eu so no patch yet and the current form of apm count I can have 120-130 blizz eapm thingy and SC2gears has it at 80-90 or so. I guess the latter dont count mindless move spam for no reason. Also blizz apm counters are based on when you start to spam/play fast so with the current settings I get wayy higher if I go for some early ling play compared for roaches or whatever. Adding to all this blizzards time setting is still wrong. I still have to say normal JCA APM is the real thing since double tapping to move cam, checking up on building and upgrade progression ect is not counted as useful. | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:00 Xercen wrote: apm is how fast u can spam your mouse buttons. (actions per min) epm is how efficient you are when you spam your buttoms. It was suppsed to be CPM (commands per min). No idea what the EPM means EAPM* efficient APM. It's also very false, does not count a big portion of valid actions while allowing a lot of completely invalid actions to go through. It's really bad. | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria892 Posts
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:26 lindn wrote: EAPM* efficient APM. It's also very false, does not count a big portion of valid actions while allowing a lot of completely invalid actions to go through. It's really bad. This really needs to be emphasized. Ever since Blizzard brought in the new "APM" I have seen people making assumptions about it without actually understanding how it works. It's not as simple as just filtering out "spam". Unit and building selections simply no longer count as actions, period. That's all that changed. It's a stupid as hell way of doing it because it filters out legitimate actions while still leaving in plenty of spam. Snap to Observer to get a look at incoming army, click enemy unit to check upgrades, select forge to check progress of own upgrades, select Nexus to check for energy to chrono boost. All that counts as zero actions. Doing all those useful things in a second counts as nothing under Blizzard's new and improved APM. On the other hand, selecting a Probe and right clicking on the ground 30 times still causes your APM to skyrocket. This whole APM/CPM/EPM/whatever bullshit is one of the most bizarre things I have seen come out of Blizzard. If they want a good EAPM system that attempts to filter out spam while leaving in anything that could be meaningful then there are plenty in existence already, like the one that SC2Gears uses for instance. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
Doesn't seem to be any difference between the two. | ||
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m1rk3
Canada412 Posts
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Berailfor
441 Posts
Edit: Also, I didn't like it when eAPM was the standalone record of your hands. But now that their is both I like blizzards idea a lot. It'll be kinda cool to see how many actions you perform are actually doing something in game. | ||
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413X
Sweden203 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:15 1hpBuiltForLove wrote: That's what I have been trying to say all along, but I could never find the words. and what happens when your brain gets faster due to practice but your hands cant keep up? apm is a good measure of potential, not always skill. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:52 413X wrote: blizzard pm is terrible. Apm was never about the effectiveness about it. It was all about the speed. No lol. Quite the opposite actually. | ||
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:58 Agamo wrote: I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm I can't be the only who to notice that? 99% sure that doesn't make sense. Anyway, APM = actions per minute. Fairly self explanatory. eAPM = effective actions per minute. These are the actions that do something, not mindless spamming. So, placing a building, or a-moving and stuff counts toward eAPM. | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:52 413X wrote: blizzard pm is terrible. Apm was never about the effectiveness about it. It was all about the speed. yeah I don't think a pro cared about spamming. More about how efficient they were in the time they were giving ie the name Actions per minute. Blizzard just went the wrong way at first of going about this. Now that you can see your APM (hand speed) and EPM (effective actions) I think it'll be cool to compare and contrast with others to see how those 2 correlate and whether or not you spam a ton or are doing things very effectively | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:54 Jedclark wrote: I can't be the only who to notice that? 99% sure that doesn't make sense. Anyway, APM = actions per minute. Fairly self explanatory. eAPM = effective actions per minute. These are the actions that do something, not mindless spamming. So, placing a building, or a-moving and stuff counts toward eAPM. It seems to me you have not actually read the thread. Everybody noticed it. | ||
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NasKe_
Brazil570 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:58 Berailfor wrote: yeah I don't think a pro cared about spamming. More about how efficient they were in the time they were giving ie the name Actions per minute. Blizzard just went the wrong way at first of going about this. Now that you can see your APM (hand speed) and EPM (effective actions) I think it'll be cool to compare and contrast with others to see how those 2 correlate and whether or not you spam a ton or are doing things very effectively But, blizzard patched wrong. My EPM is 202, my APM is 100 Should be the way around.  | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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Niyanyo
Mexico71 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
EPM is for flexing ur effective epeen. Doesn't make a difference in the end. + Show Spoiler + You have none+ Show Spoiler +  | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote: Just tested it in game. APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. I can confirm this as well. The patch seems to have switched the two around apparently. My EPM was fuckin 198 average and I was puzzled as shit as to why. Then I switched to APM and noticed it was 90. Blizz did the ol' switcharoo. | ||
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dwrmaievy
Russian Federation13 Posts
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
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ThatGuyDoMo
Australia516 Posts
EXAMPLE Using sc2gears, one of my games i had 115 blizzard APM but 203 normal APM that be crazy | ||
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deo1
United States199 Posts
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Spitmode
Germany1510 Posts
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DarKcS
Australia1237 Posts
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mumming
Faroe Islands256 Posts
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dala
Sweden477 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote: Just tested it in game. APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. Complete fail from Blizzard! Please PTR patches in the future. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
EPM is something different and both are not in sc2 | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
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blackberry_
114 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote: Just tested it in game. APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. Pretty much this. | ||
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Dakota_Fanning
Hungary2347 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:17 Eatme wrote: Yeah, I'm on eu so no patch yet and the current form of apm count I can have 120-130 blizz eapm thingy and SC2gears has it at 80-90 or so. I guess the latter dont count mindless move spam for no reason. Also blizz apm counters are based on when you start to spam/play fast so with the current settings I get wayy higher if I go for some early ling play compared for roaches or whatever. Adding to all this blizzards time setting is still wrong. I still have to say normal JCA APM is the real thing since double tapping to move cam, checking up on building and upgrade progression ect is not counted as useful. Sc2gears APM is the "normal JCA APM". APM in Sc2gears does not exclude any spam actions. EAPM does (details). | ||
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Gwypaas
Sweden41 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:05 ChaosTerran wrote: Guys remember the good old times where your APM was your actual APM and not some made up number by Blizzard? I lol'ed Remember when Blizzard actually cared about the gamers instead of throwing random APM systems at us to make it look like they do stuff and care instead of you know.... the real deal? Either way, this is ridiculous. APM is and has always just been a measure of how fast you are, and then the next step is for you yourself to break down that to understand where you spend unnecessary APM to improve. Which is pretty much impossible for a computer to do with some sort of algorithm since some spamming is necessary to time certain events and microing while others which look similar for the algorithm aren't. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
right now I think it's bugged and it's reversed and will probably be fixed soon | ||
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-JoKeR-
Canada387 Posts
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote: Just tested it in game. APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. AWwww, and I was hoping they stealth patched in real time instead of Blizzard time. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
I'm fine with using SC2Gears and whatnot, but it would be nice to be watching a replay, hit "M" and see "Oh that's my actual APM, that's really cool that it's a big number and makes me satisfied in my brain." Basically. people want to see high APM. It's so satisfying to see that you have a high APM.. it makes you say, "Man... I'm FAST!" even if you aren't that fast. It just raises confidence and is cool! There's so much of this "ladder anxiety" and ranking dragging people down, so wouldn't be nice for the struggling Diamond player to see 150 APM? He could work towards 200 APM and then he'd be fast like a pro. He would have something besides rank to strive for. I certainly don't feel motivated to focus really hard and play faster because I can't fucking tell that I'm playing any faster than my previous game by checking my APM. Wasn't it cool in BW every time you progressed and got closer to the pro 300 APM? It was like, "Man, I'm getting fucking AWESOME and FAST!" | ||
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Lobo2me
Norway1213 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:15 Cinim wrote: APM is still the new thing, blizzard recently made, EPM is the old APM APM = Their Actions Per Minute, the best APM (Blizzard APM) EPM = E-Penis Measurement, for the silly people | ||
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AcrosstheSky
United States237 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
I wish somebody would make the APM number represent an actual EARTH minute.... | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:12 JDub wrote: Not true. Continuously cycling through your control groups is actually very important (it is a key part of macroing well). Right-click spamming, on the other hand, is the worst kind of spamming you can do (it hurts your macro and multi-tasking to spam clicks instead of being precise). Click spamming counts in both EPM and APM, whereas control group cycling only counts in APM. Both are not very useful, but EPM is even more worthless than APM. Looks like Blizzard got EPM and APM mixed up in their system, and hopefully it gets fixed soon. EPM, not the mistaken system that Blizzard is using right now but the actual number of efficient actions, is more important. It is what makes players with relatively low APM like Sjow and Goody competitive, and what makes Flash untouchable in BW. | ||
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TheV
Brazil107 Posts
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YehOfCourseImOP
United Kingdom23 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 Diamond wrote: Just tested it in game. APM = EPM EPM = APM I passed this on too, good patch by blizz, everything is broken or backwards. I realised this too so I came too see if anyone had posted it yet, good spot | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
APM=EPM EPM=APM | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
Effective would make so much more sense... | ||
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Aela
97 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1597 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:58 Agamo wrote: Im just asking the difference, and which one is more important and which one i should be paying attention to. I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch Thanks! Neither because blizzard is attempting to equalize them, so that someone like you or me only plays a few less APM than a pro player because the extra actions that a pro player takes will not be counted because they're "spam." Just in general though from what I think i recall some korean pro had like 150, so you could probably pick it up quite a bit. | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
I just use SC2gears anyway. It's APM values have always been consistent, the way it calculates what APM is "effective" is far more sensible, and you can even swap between "game time" APM and "real time" APM at your leisure. :: USE SC2GEARS IT IS GREAT :: On February 22 2012 16:47 dUTtrOACh wrote: I wish somebody would make the APM number represent an actual EARTH minute.... SC2Gears can do this. | ||
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On February 23 2012 01:40 CruiseR wrote: I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ? Nope. Fixing the "game time != real time" problem is still in the "yeah we know... we'll try to do something about it" basket in which browder put it at blizzcon 2011. Hopefully it will be fixed in HotS and hopefully most of the devs are working on it instead of on patches for WoL. That's the only thing I can think of to explain the botched up job of the 1.4.3 patch release. Not sure I believe it though :/ I mean... nearly 4 months since 1.4.2, 3 balance changes, a half release on NA with battle.net not fully updated causing the phoenix upgrade to not be available in ladder games and now this. Inverting APM and EAPM is minor but still... do they outsource QA to CS players? | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On February 23 2012 01:40 CruiseR wrote: I have a question: does the now APM (or EPM- i see it's messed up - i mean the higher one) shows the real APM? So we don't have to multiply it by 1,3 (cuz of faster speed) to get the real APM ? Why do people even care about this? It's just a number... What difference does it make if it shows how many clicks you made in 45 seconds or in 60?? In the end, everyone is being compared by the same standard, if yours is 200 and someone else's is 100, congrats, you're faster, what difference does it make if it's a minute or 45 seconds or 30 seconds? | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch 80 ish apm 88ish epm ...how the? :o | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:12 HaXXspetten wrote: ...how the? :o EPM = APM APM = CPM | ||
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Lorch
Germany3674 Posts
How that other number comes to be though, I have no effing idea, all I know is that it somehow filters out actions to ensure that a masters player can have the same "apm" as a silver league player. I love how they brought back real APM after people bitched about their stupid new shit and yet they mess up the name and it's still not real apm, good thing sc2gears exists. | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:10 sitromit wrote: Why do people even care about this? It's just a number... What difference does it make if it shows how many clicks you made in 45 seconds or in 60?? In the end, everyone is being compared by the same standard, if yours is 200 and someone else's is 100, congrats, you're faster, what difference does it make if it's a minute or 45 seconds or 30 seconds? i do care, because i would want to know if im faster or slower than 10 years ago when i was playing broodwar | ||
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ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:22 Aela wrote: EffectiveAPM should be the thing to look for. Look at ViBEs APM last year... he had like 400 but it was not because he was fast, it was because he was SPAMMING like crazy. With EAPM spamming doesn't count. Spamming is often beneficial and sometimes necessary. Eapm is flawed on a count of its arbitrary nature. | ||
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CadenZie
Korea (South)545 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:37 CruiseR wrote: i do care, because i would want to know if im faster or slower than 10 years ago when i was playing broodwar But broodwar's APM has always been bogus. Some actions were never counted while in other cases the system generated 3 action by clicking a button once (i.e. morphing lava). You can not even accurately compare broodwar races to another. And you certainly can not compare BW to SC2 APMs by direct number. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
APM now seems to be counting unique actions, the same number it was basically before the patch. Both to me still seem to be calculating in "blizzard" minutes. I could be way off, but that is what I've concluded. I'm going with EPM right now as what I care about, and keeping it in my mind that compared to BW it would be a bit higher because of the blizzard min. | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44079 Posts
On February 23 2012 04:40 MichaelDonovan wrote: APBM - Actions per Blizzard minute APBMUTNPCSLD... Actions Per Blizzard Minute Until The Next Patch Changes Some Little Detail. OP, I wouldn't worry about the new definitions of any of the terms. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On February 23 2012 04:16 Barrin wrote: I'm so confused Blizzard... I think I'll just use SC2Gears. The solution from the very beginning | ||
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Penecks
United States600 Posts
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
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0kz
Italy1118 Posts
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
I don't get what the fuck blizz is doing | ||
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:03 oxxo wrote: Neither matters. If your hands can do what your mind wants then your apm is enough. If it can't then it isn't. This honestly made me lol! I think you got it backward... In sc2, if your hands can do everything your mind wants, then you probably don't understand the game enough (or should try to think faster and be more aware). No matter how pro you are, there is always something more you could do with a little more apm. The easy exemple is just microing your units. Check the bots with 10000+ apm and tell me you don't wish your hands were faster! Basically, I don't think you should ever feel in a confort zone while playing this game. You should always be striving to do more, as fast as you can. There are no limits! | ||
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
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BlueBoxSC
United States582 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:08 Bommes wrote: What, I don't get it. I think cycling through my buildings is far more effective use of APM than just clicking on a spot 20 times for a move command, you have to see when your units finish, when your upgrades finish etc. Why do they even put stuff like this in, wth is this? The only thing they achieve with this is to make it overly complicated for every new player who has no idea what APM or EAPM means, also its so much confusion if you compare your APM with other players lol That's exactly why everyone raged about this like two months ago when the change was implemented... D: And the fact that things are just bassackwards this patch isn't helping Blizzard's cred. As /r/starcraft said, it's just something that's become isoteric and stupidly overcomplicated. BW APM, I miss thee: and I didn't even play BW. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
To those getting on blizzard's back, you should realize how lucky you are that blizz is patching the game at all. So many companies out there (Electronic Arts to name one) just release, suck the money out, and leave the game. | ||
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NeoSunny
United States31 Posts
APM and EAPM meant a lot in SC1 because it's not easy to 1a2a3a4a5z6z7d8d9p0p while sending workers to mine since the game didn't do it for you and moving 3-4 obs around the map since you didn't have naga towers. So how fast you can do that is impressive. Now in SC2 to me, APM to an extent means almost nothing because 1a2a3a4z6e is so much easier to do, workers mine automatically, control two towers and you see the whole map, so there isn't as much action and micro and multi-task happening in sc2, you don't need to be as fast, so thats why I think it doesn't mean anything in SC2.. Nothing wrong with that, this isn't a "diss" on sc2 or anything. | ||
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:08 Tal0n wrote: pick either value and use that as a measure of your improvement. blizzard has put a lot of thought into their new apm; you can be sure its reliable. Do you actually understand how the new "APM" works? You couldn't be more wrong here. | ||
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XanDz
United States2 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:04 K3Nyy wrote: EPM is efficient APM. Takes out some of the spam out but still an arbitrary way to define what is efficient or not. I agree with this. Actions that are contributing to any beneficial progress should be self-eveident in the gameplay. The APM/EPM numbers are just to quantify the speed at which these actions are being performed. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:38 XanDz wrote: I agree with this. Actions that are contributing to any beneficial progress should be self-eveident in the gameplay. The APM/EPM numbers are just to quantify the speed at which these actions are being performed. The confusion is that everyone's EPM right now is the higher number than APM. So right now, it is actually reversed where EPM is giving what you'd expect with APM and APM is giving what you'd expect with EPM. I just sprained my brain. | ||
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gubbstrut
Sweden39 Posts
while epm is not effected by that change since its new and something completly diffrent, so if you compare the epm to the old apm im pretty sure that your epm will be lower. | ||
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neverlast
Austria62 Posts
unless I am wrong but spamming waypoints (units or buildings) counted in both APM and EPM. I think is a rollback change to the old apm, right? Name of Action --------------------- (APM & EPM) move units------------------------------ (APM & EPM) move unit with minimap------------ (APM & EPM) waypoint set with mouse---------- (APM & EPM) defining controlgroups ------------------------- (only EPM) tabbing controlgroups------------------------- (only EPM) boxing something------------------------------- (only EPM) select unit with mouse------------------------- (only EPM) minmap click view change-------------not tracked set viewpoints------------------------------not tracked swap viewpoints---------------------------not tracked mouse scrolling ---------------------------not tracked | ||
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OutofmymindSC2
Bulgaria80 Posts
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
- A minute consists of 60 seconds? NO! We have the blizzard minute, because SC2 is not being played in normal time! Seriously, that's complete bullshit. - APM / EPM / WTFPM? Why don't you just count every click per minute and call it APM? Because an action is an action, even if it's useless. Of course, an EAPM calculation can be added to spice it up. (I think the SC2Gears APM stuff is pretty accurate) | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
The idea of APM is actions per minute, which just means how many keys are pressed per time. It is a value that can be measured exactly, and people generally know how to interpret it. A c t i o n s P e r M i n u t e. Just like miles per hour. Not that complicated, right? I dont know which nutjob got the shitty idea to try to invent an algorithm which decides which of the actions are likely to be effective for winning and which aren't. Its completely a matter of opinion and therefore bullshit trying to objectively measure that. The blizzard time made the numbers of normal apm too small by a factor of 1.4, but it was still an exact measurement. Not nice, but bearable. The blizzard new apm however, is just a number without meaning that some shitty algorithm generates. Everyody just has 80 Blizzard apm, from gold to grandmaster. And then they sell it as "APM" which it clearly isn't. It is not even a measure. It is APM folded by some glitchy algorithm which results in a number around 80 every time. Think of a broken guitar effects pedal that takes your guitar signal and just produces that one single annyoing noise and nothing else. Thats what blizzard apm is. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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nface
106 Posts
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
On March 01 2012 21:17 Shellshock1122 wrote: APM is just spam. I played a 2v2 with my friend where I just shared unit control and spammed so I had 1023 apm for a match but only 9 epm. EPM is basically the measure of what you're actually doing No it isnt. Since you cannot define what actions should be considered effective (because different people have different opinions on that) any algorithm that claims to correctly decide this must be bullshit. apm does not differentiate if you spam or do something worthwile, but at least it is an exact measurement of how many keys you are able to press. epm (which is called "apm" ingame btw) is just an arbitrary number which tells you nothing. Especially not what you're doing or how you're doing. | ||
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kcbgoku
Poland156 Posts
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blamekilly
466 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:58 Agamo wrote: Im just asking the difference, and which one is more important and which one i should be paying attention to. I am a gold level player with 80 ish apm and 88ish epm nad am very confused about it after new patch Thanks! If you have 80 apm/epm and still gold, you need to slow it down and focus more on the game. heck I have 60-100 and in low masters. I don't spam buttons all game long tho, some people do that to inflate their numbers. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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RaiD.RaynoR
United States294 Posts
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gabbegubbe
Sweden67 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On March 02 2012 00:18 gabbegubbe wrote: My EPM is constantly higher than my APM. That can't be right. I'm on a mac so it might be something wrong with the patch on the osx? no blizzard screwed up and made EPM the one that is actual apm. I have like 70-80 apm and 190+ EPM | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
The important thing about Blizz APM is that neither one of them are actually APM because neither one of them is actually measured by minutes or seconds, but by a unit of time which Blizzard actually made up. Wish I were kidding about that | ||
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Petrone
Sweden47 Posts
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Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
Please. Stop. Making. These. | ||
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Striker.superfreunde
Germany1119 Posts
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Altern
United States1053 Posts
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On March 02 2012 09:55 Perseverance wrote: You really don't need to worry about this until you get into Masters league : / FALSE!!! GoOdy and Sjow are two of the slowest players that are Pro. They are way slower than most Diamond players, yet they are pro! | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:01 carloselcoco wrote: FALSE!!! GoOdy and Sjow are two of the slowest players that are Pro. They are way slower than most Diamond players, yet they are pro! actually they both are fast compared to elfi lol | ||
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Ghoststrikes
Canada1356 Posts
On March 02 2012 08:55 Josh_rakoons wrote: WHY DO WE NEED 2 BILLION THREADS ABOUT A RIDICULOUS USELESS UNIT THAT DOESNT MATTER. Please. Stop. Making. These. APM's a unit now. More news at 10 | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:01 carloselcoco wrote: FALSE!!! GoOdy and Sjow are two of the slowest players that are Pro. They are way slower than most Diamond players, yet they are pro! Goody and Sjow are way above Master level. You didn't really counter his statement. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
I don't understand why they don't just remove EPM. After all, it is a useless metric for the most part, IMO. | ||
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cactusjack914
United States183 Posts
I don't understand why they don't just remove EPM isn't EPM new in this patch?...... | ||
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Ghoststrikes
Canada1356 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:18 cactusjack914 wrote: isn't EPM new in this patch?...... It's new that they call it like that, but the old (well not all the way old like maybe a year old) APM was already EPM, not counting successive selections as different actions | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:14 Bagration wrote: Goody and Sjow are way above Master level. You didn't really counter his statement. Nope! You just did not get my statement at all. GoOdy and Sjow have extremely low APM. Their APM is lower than most Diamond players. Their skill is top notch though. Sjow has even competed in the GSL!!! On March 02 2012 10:02 kongoline wrote: actually they both are fast compared to elfi lol True! xD | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
Well at least that is how its supposed to work, but Blizzard messed it up and EPM is actually APM and vice versa. And I heavily disagreed with the EPM, since all actions are actually important and the pros utilize them to the best of their ability. Contrary to what a lot of people may thing, APM actually does matter and it is a way to distinguish one player form another. However macro, mechanics, multi-tasking, micro and decision making all have higher priority, improving one of those will generally show greater results that trying to improve APM. However, when everything else is equal APM can be a decisive factor. Sjow and GoOdy, while they might have APM comparable to Diamond level players, if they have good macro, mechanics, build orders and micro and decision making they are way above Diamond. They also can have higher precision than Diamond players, raising their overall efficiency. However SC2 at its highest level is reaching the point where people need the extra APM. While people cite Sjow and GoOdy as good examples of slow pro players, you must remember that, they actually are somewhat inconsistent, and don't win much now outside some local events. While they are good players, I don't really see them as favorites to ever win big European or international tournaments like ASUS ROG, Dreamhack, MLG, IPL etc, when other players come with comparable decision making, mechanics, macro, micro, but way higher APM and multi-tasking. Multi-tasking is heavily related to APM | ||
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tOybOx
4 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
actions per minute sounds like a unit of measurement to me .... | ||
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IMHope
Korea (South)1241 Posts
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cassurai
Singapore307 Posts
You guys are confusing the hell out of the new players here. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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LWspikE
6 Posts
If this is the case, where you do not know what to do and as such it takes you longer to make decisions and thus convert them into active commands which are recorded in your apm/epm/ectectect you need to focus on KNOWING WHAT TO DO, if you don't figure this out your apm will remain low (unless you begin spamming which won't actually help you but will hinder your performance). As an example, I am a rank 1 bronze player currently versing silvers and the occasional gold, my apm is 70ish on average. I have seen my apm go up to 200 legitally without any form of spam, just solid micro and macro. What this tells me is my hand movement can potentially reach up to 200 apm legitally (perhaps more who knows). If this is so why isn't my macro 200ish then? well because I can't think of 200 things to do a second in sc2, I just don't know the game that well that I can come up with 200 different actions that are required for me to be successful. Also I forget to macro and have a constant production ect. So to improve my apm, I like many others need to LEARN WHAT TO DO AT ALL TIMES, HAVE PLANS, INITIATE PLANS, THINK QUICKER. basically if your hands can keep up with your mind your fine, if they can't then you need to work on your hands. It's the old saying your only as good as your slowest person. Is it your hands or your mind? figure it out | ||
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taitanik
Latvia231 Posts
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
And please stop saying "you don't have to worry until you get to Master's." TBH, APM is as irrelevant a stat throughout the leagues, and your APM doesn't separate a 1500 Master player from a NA Grandmaster any more than it separates a Top8 Silver player from a Rank 88 Plat. If anything, it is more useful at the lower levels to see that your multitasking is getting more and more effective. I've found that the games where my mechanics, decision-making, and game sense were most clutch are also the ones where my average APM was highest, and when I see my average APM hit the 100s in a macro game, I feel accomplished and reassured that I was able to multitask at the diamond level when I'm a measly gold. | ||
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Biggun69
187 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:01 carloselcoco wrote: FALSE!!! GoOdy and Sjow are two of the slowest players that are Pro. They are way slower than most Diamond players, yet they are pro! Well, even though they are slow they are still faster than diamond players. They make sure to get everything done and dont spam a lot. | ||
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
On March 03 2012 19:54 Biggun69 wrote: Well, even though they are slow they are still faster than diamond players. They make sure to get everything done and dont spam a lot. Teehee, spamalot. Also, your timing sense comes into play. Some people have very well developed short-term time sense. This means that one Terran doesn't have to cycle through production facilities as fast as another to be as effective. Some people just have a mental clock developed that can go, "It's been about 15 seconds, I should check my CC/rax/factory/whathaveyou." This leads to lower APMs, simply because tapping isn't as crucial in macro stages of the game. | ||
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Cortza
South Africa328 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:09 Kimaker wrote: Blizzard has fucked apm up so much it doesn't make a difference. It's hardly useful anymore in either form. I wouldn't say they fucked up apm. Its still there, just now called eapm. Read the patch notes it's no big deal. | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On February 22 2012 08:03 Devolved wrote: ...and EPM is the new CPM which supposed to be the old APM but is actually the old old APM.APM is the old APM. EPM is the old old APM. EPM is the new APM. APM is the new EPM. Hope that clears it up. Pretty simple tbh. InControl's description of his amazement at the epic fuckfest Blizzard made of APM - something so simple it's theoretically impossible to fuck up - sticks in my mind. Seriously use a third party APM calculator if you actually care. BOTH in-game APMs have arbitrary inclusions and exclusions that make ZERO sense from a pro-gaming standpoint and serve only to mislead low level players. And both use Blizzard time instead of real time for calculation. | ||
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darkcloud8282
Canada776 Posts
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PhilleeC
United States46 Posts
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Beaza
Germany203 Posts
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
Game calls it APM, it is actually EAPM Game calls it EMP, it is actually CPM | ||
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OPKutty
Canada45 Posts
On March 03 2012 20:42 Cortza wrote: I wouldn't say they fucked up apm. Its still there, just now called eapm. Read the patch notes it's no big deal. I'm pretty sure he's referring to the fact that the M in APM is not actually a real minute. It's APBM (Actions per Blizzard Minute). | ||
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