EPTStatistics on HSC4, Foreigners vs. Koreans - Page 11
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Snettik
Finland186 Posts
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
On January 09 2012 20:36 Xiron wrote: Koreans are mainly not christian? They don't hold it as their main holiday, so that it doesn't have as big of meaning to them, which in order doesn't make them celebrate it as much. How dumb must one be to ignore his own self denial and critisize others for theirs. And, how ignorant one must be to think that everyone is christian anyway. stop being ignorant. | ||
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Groog
127 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:22 OopsOopsBaby wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqXfzzPG77E stop being ignorant. Yes, because assuming that a mainly non-christian country does not celebrate Christmas is ignorant... Also, your video proves nothing, it only shows that some people do celebrate Christmas in korea (There are Christians everywhere). Does not mean that the players themselves celebrate Christmas. And to those yelling self-denial... Did you watch the tail end of the sc2 scene in 2011? Was ANY tournament as dominated by koreans as this was? In what tournament did 50% of the Koreans finish above any foreigner? So, it's not self-denial, it's just me examining the facts. Stop being an elitist asshole just because you're korean, you're countriemens accomplishments are not your own. User was warned for this post | ||
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naux
Canada738 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:36 Groog wrote: Yes, because assuming that a mainly non-christian country does not celebrate Christmas is ignorant... Also, your video proves nothing, it only shows that some people do celebrate Christmas in korea (There are Christians everywhere). Does not mean that the players themselves celebrate Christmas. And to those yelling self-denial... Did you watch the tail end of the sc2 scene in 2011? Was ANY tournament as dominated by koreans as this was? In what tournament did 50% of the Koreans finish above any foreigner? So, it's not self-denial, it's just me examining the facts. Stop being an elitist asshole just because you're korean, you're countriemens accomplishments are not your own. im not christian but i celebrate christmas? is that really wrong? idiot.. first of all how many koreans are in foreigner tournaments? ill start off with some NASL i believe there were 2 KOREANS and what place did they get top 1-2 simple just like that how many koreans were in homestory cup like 6? and they all got into top 8 dreamhack there were like what 4 koreans or whatever what were the results top1-2 MLG-GSL exchange program what was the top3s mostly all koreans your facts are as dumb as you saying foreigners are on christmas break didnt know christmas break lasted for 1 year | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
1. Luck. As simple as that. Having watched a lot of games i felt like there were tons of games that came down to little things, which are not in the hands of any player. SC2 is based a lot around that and this tournament it turned out, that the koreans were more lucky (maybe forced luck?). Of course this doesn't mean that in other circumstances it would be 50:50 between foreigners and koreans. 2, Probably the bigger issue was that the atmosphere of the tournament caused many foreigners to take it less seriously as they were in for fun and social interaction. I think it comes with korean progamer culture that they want to win every game and are more willing to neglect things like partying, fooling around and such, compared to the european and american progamers. edit: feel free to ignore my post and focus on braindamaging discussions about christmas. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On January 09 2012 19:53 Groog wrote: Simple explanation: Foreigners were celebrating christmas the past weeks, Koreans weren't. Can't read in to these results (ffs Stephano was playing hungover on day 3) Wow.Are you a troll? You are just sad that your favourite foreigners did not beat the Koreans. At least give a smart excuse at best.So dumb. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:36 Groog wrote: Yes, because assuming that a mainly non-christian country does not celebrate Christmas is ignorant... Also, your video proves nothing, it only shows that some people do celebrate Christmas in korea (There are Christians everywhere). Does not mean that the players themselves celebrate Christmas. And to those yelling self-denial... Did you watch the tail end of the sc2 scene in 2011? Was ANY tournament as dominated by koreans as this was? In what tournament did 50% of the Koreans finish above any foreigner? So, it's not self-denial, it's just me examining the facts. Stop being an elitist asshole just because you're korean, you're countriemens accomplishments are not your own. Not only christians celebrate christmas, here in malaysia where theres few christians, we all still celebrate it..... | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
ret, stephano, thorzain and a few other foreigners clearly underperformed... so you can't really count their results. MC is far better than anyone else that attended the tournament, so counting his results is like counting a grandmaster versus a bronze leaguer. real and violet have been training outside korea for months, strictly they should be counted as foreigners. | ||
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naux
Canada738 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:57 shizna wrote: the OP is a bit fail imo... the out of context results don't really speak for anything. ret, stephano, thorzain and a few other foreigners clearly underperformed... so you can't really count their results. MC is far better than anyone else that attended the tournament, so counting his results is like counting a grandmaster versus a bronze leaguer. real and violet have been training outside korea for months, strictly they should be counted as foreigners. so huk is korean and idra is korean for a month oh and stephano is korean for a couple weeks and so is naniwa? lol seriously? | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:51 TigerKarl wrote: I think that 2 things cause this dramatic domination of koreans: 1. Luck. As simple as that. Having watched a lot of games i felt like there were tons of games that came down to little things, which are not in the hands of any player. SC2 is based a lot around that and this tournament it turned out, that the koreans were more lucky (maybe forced luck?). Of course this doesn't mean that in other circumstances it would be 50:50 between foreigners and koreans. 2, Probably the bigger issue was that the atmosphere of the tournament caused many foreigners to take it less seriously as they were in for fun and social interaction. I think it comes with korean progamer culture that they want to win every game and are more willing to neglect things like partying, fooling around and such, compared to the european and american progamers. edit: feel free to ignore my post and focus on braindamaging discussions about christmas. The second issue I pretty agree on but the first issue for koreans dominating is LUCK?? Seriously? Koreans are better than foreigners because they have better working ethics and treat "progaming" as serious as a career.They dun dominate based on "luck".They dominated based on "skill".Those little things could mean that Koreans making less mistake or better decision making than foreigners. Thats why they dominate the SC2 scene.Period | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I think it speaks volumes that JYP dropped a game to Goody's bio. BIO! As already mentioned, it probably came down to luck more than anything. I mean, MKP and MC definetly are on a different skill level, but the other koreans really aren't. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 09 2012 12:46 OopsOopsBaby wrote: IPL3 1st stephano 2nd korean 3rd korean 4th korean overall breakdown ro32 14/32 koreans 43.75% ro16 10/16 koreans 62.5% ro8 5/8 koreans 62.5% MLG Orlando 1st HuK 2nd korean 3rd korean 4th idra 5th korean 6th korena 7th korean 8th korean Dreamhack Summer 1st HuK 2nd korean 3rd korean 4th korean note: only 3 koreans in this tournament but they took top 4 placings Dreamhack Valencia 1st korean 2nd ThorZaIN 3rd korean 4th korean note: again only 3 koreans and all took top 4 placings i give it to you for TSL3 where koreans placed like shit. but its an online event not LAN. I am unsure what you are arguing against - we are not discussing overall placements, in which case there would be no disagreements, as the average Korean is ten times stronger than the average foreigner, but he stated that Koreans 100% were going to win all tournaments they participate in. I proved him wrong. 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. place finishes have nothing to do with that, and I never said anything on the matter. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
On January 09 2012 22:00 FakeDeath wrote: The second issue I pretty agree on but the first issue for koreans dominating is LUCK?? Seriously? Koreans are better than foreigners because they have better working ethics and treat "progaming" as serious as a career.They dun dominate based on "luck".They dominated based on "skill".Those little things could mean that Koreans making less mistake or better decision making than foreigners. Thats why they dominate the SC2 scene.Period Please don't quote my post if you don't mean to argue about what i said. I never pretended that foreigners are the same level as koreans, i said that a good portion of luck caused this brutal dominance to be bigger than what we would have expected, based on resent results in big tournaments. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3686 Posts
Foreigners are still lazy, they still don't live in team houses and most of them still practice mainly on ladder. Koreans are still dedicated, they do live in team houses and they don't care about ladder. The elite foreigners can hang around mid-low code s level while almost all other foreigners are code b or worse. And if you start arguing that it's luck that koreans are almost always on top you might as well say that mlg orlando was pure luck, or nerchio beating a hero that is known to have really bad nerves is also luck... | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
On January 09 2012 20:36 Xiron wrote: Koreans are mainly not christian? They don't hold it as their main holiday, so that it doesn't have as big of meaning to them, which in order doesn't make them celebrate it as much. How dumb must one be to ignore his own self denial and critisize others for theirs. And, how ignorant one must be to think that everyone is christian anyway. Most people who does not give a shit about Jesus and christianism still celebrate Christmas dude. Most friends of mine and I for instance. Self-denial? lol | ||
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saynomore
Norway149 Posts
I need to see them. I need to read them.... | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:36 Groog wrote: Yes, because assuming that a mainly non-christian country does not celebrate Christmas is ignorant... Also, your video proves nothing, it only shows that some people do celebrate Christmas in korea (There are Christians everywhere). Does not mean that the players themselves celebrate Christmas. And to those yelling self-denial... Did you watch the tail end of the sc2 scene in 2011? Was ANY tournament as dominated by koreans as this was? In what tournament did 50% of the Koreans finish above any foreigner? So, it's not self-denial, it's just me examining the facts. Stop being an elitist asshole just because you're korean, you're countriemens accomplishments are not your own. The video actually proves a lot since the place in the video is swamped from morning till night and that's only one of the places for Christmas. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
"these results don't count" - then what counts? Give me a list of dream team foreigners. Only then, would it count? And should we be purposefully not inviting players like MC? This can run in circles forever - HSC4 did a good job of player selection, and that's what you guys have to live with. certain players didn't play(IdrA, Naniwa)...why is that HSC4's fault? NO NO NO don't be telling me that IdrA "isn't top tier foreigner". "he lost against goody's bio" - I didn't see that game. I just don't like the tone of that though. so what if goody was known for mech play(but even he, was forced to make the switch to bio). But why are you discounting goody as a player? "foreigners doesn't lose that badly" - This is the same thing as my bronze buddy playing a single ladder match, loses, and then tells me "i lost. but i didn't lose that badly". You are the same people who would come back with "there are only winners and losers bronzie. and you're the loser". I have to repeat this right back as it applies to HSC4. There are only winners and losers. And the Koreans won. No I'm not trying to be offensive here. "X foreigner almost won vs X korean, he wasn't DOMINATED, the games were close" - If a 4-0 isn't "dominating", I don't know what is. being 3-1'ed...still pretty owned...see above. let me guess, you're about to cite the individual match now. again...see above "stephano drank too much, not his fault" - there's a little something called personal responsibility. esp when the prize pool was as enormous as this one was. Oh oh oh everyone bought him shots? again - there are ways of refusing...why...was he afraid of being shunned by his peers(who just so happened to be competing against him) unless he showed in a manly way that he could hold his liquor against big guys like MC? "koreans are just LUCKY" - the very same "luck" that enabled MC, Nestea, MVP to repeatedly win GSL's, right? Oh hang on you're saying it's only situational like korean vs foreigners, or only situations like here in HSC4. Well if that's what you truly believe, wow I guess we foreigners have no chance in hell then. Where, oh wherefore can we find this magical luck romeo? None of this nonsense skill stuff of course. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 09 2012 21:51 TigerKarl wrote: I think that 2 things cause this dramatic domination of koreans: 1. Luck. As simple as that. Having watched a lot of games i felt like there were tons of games that came down to little things, which are not in the hands of any player. SC2 is based a lot around that and this tournament it turned out, that the koreans were more lucky (maybe forced luck?). Of course this doesn't mean that in other circumstances it would be 50:50 between foreigners and koreans. 2, Probably the bigger issue was that the atmosphere of the tournament caused many foreigners to take it less seriously as they were in for fun and social interaction. I think it comes with korean progamer culture that they want to win every game and are more willing to neglect things like partying, fooling around and such, compared to the european and american progamers. edit: feel free to ignore my post and focus on braindamaging discussions about christmas. 1) If it was luck, over the long run, foreigners and Koreans would have pretty equal win rates. This is obviously not true. 2) That probably played more of a part than anything, but you always hear about MC going off and playing poker so it's not that obvious they weren't enjoying themselves. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 09 2012 22:05 Zealously wrote: I am unsure what you are arguing against - we are not discussing overall placements, in which case there would be no disagreements, as the average Korean is ten times stronger than the average foreigner, but he stated that Koreans 100% were going to win all tournaments they participate in. I proved him wrong. 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. place finishes have nothing to do with that, and I never said anything on the matter. Don't you think that's a pretty dumb thing to argue? It's obvious that Koreans don't win 100% of the tournaments, bring up one result and there, he's wrong. Why argue against someone that's obviously making a blanket statement and be like yup I'm right. | ||
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