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CocA Incident Handled Correctly? - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
November 17 2011 01:52 GMT
#61
Meh, there isn't much to discuss in this new thread. you guys are just going to argue about the same things like matchfixing definition or how koreans treat this stuff differently.

problem is few of you have perspective from their viewpoint. it ends up with all of you guys bashing each other or just restating your point over and over. if your point was to gauge community reaction you know damn well what it would be. most vote yes it's unjustified and an overreaction.

throw the same poll up on a korean forum and it's the opposite.
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
November 17 2011 01:54 GMT
#62
Well heres something that is bothering me, Everythread is coca this coca that, WTF BYUN DID SOMETHING JUST AS BAD/WORSE.
xO-Gaming.com || [xO]TheGiftedApe.364 || xO-Gaming Manager.
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
November 17 2011 01:54 GMT
#63
On November 17 2011 10:46 midgettoes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:34 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:27 midgettoes wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:05 ohampatu wrote:

I wish people stop calling this match fixing, its not. This is the same thing that happened to WhiteRa, in which his opponent was praised a Hero and even interviewed. Matchfixing would imply that he through the match for some kinda gain. There was no gain. Just wanted a Game 3. Pro's do this all the time, they plan around their maps, and will lose/create stupid builds/not try on maps they dont plan on winning.



Does this really warrant a new thread?

Also, this OP is horribly misrepresenting the facts. There was a gain. It was not a gain for Coca, but it was gain for his friend, Byun. It gave him a 2nd chance at staying alive in the tournament.

I'm unfamiliar with the White-Ra incident. Maybe explain some more?

'Just wanted a Game 3'. Then you go on to explain he 'didn't try' on the map because he didn't plan on winning? He was up 100 supply and about to a-move into byun's base when he left. There is no doubt at all he had the game won. Why would he want a 3rd game if he was taking the tournament seriously? Your claim in the OP is ridiculous to me.


OP of other thread didn't have polls. I didn't want to put polls in the middle of the OP, and the OP didn't seem to be online in the discussion still. So yes, i warranted that it needed a new thread. Polls are the easiest way to show the 'community reaction'.

You are misrepresenting the facts. Have you read the full chat log? and not just the couple screenshots?
Coca's next opponent was a protoss player (if he won). He knew that he would win that because he is boss at zvp.
He was up 1-0, and winning the second game decisively. He agreed to leave the game so that they could play a third match so he could have zvt practice. He did not leave the game because he wanted Byun to win. I think people need to realize that. He didn't leave to let another player win, he left so he could finish the full set before going on to his protoss opponent.


How is the fact he would win the next series easily (and who can garuantee that in a tournament anyway?) justification for wanting a full series? The idea of a tournament is to progress and win. What Coca did was against the whole concept of a tournament (best players wins). As other people have said, you are simply misinformed. If Coca wanted ZvT practice he had the full army of SlayerS' terran to practice against - some of the best TvZers in the world. This excuse is pathetic - he deserved it.

Also, comparing this to the White-Ra incidient is ridiculous. Someone getting DQed and then the opposition effectively saying 'let's make this an even playing field rather than exploit the extended series' vs someone 'wanting more practice' (which I still don't even believe is the reason) is so different. If you can't see that... well... /shrug



1. A person threw 2 matches against White-Ra to even it up, to make a bo3.
2. This example, a person threw 1 match to even it up, for a final game.

Both are apples to apples. A person, threw the match on purpose, so as to have more games. I dont care if you are a White-Ra fanboy and think its cool just cause it was White-Ra so you dont want to call it matchfixing, but it was.

Do you remember the game when 2 people purposely tried to lose so as not to play Sen? This shit happens more than people care to admit. You guys are just super objective about it based who who did it, and what region it was in. The only reason this punishment happened to CoCa is because he is a Korean on Boxer's Team. He was made an example of. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, thats what being 'made an example' of is. All of this was done to save face for Boxer/SlayerS/Prime/GSL/ESV. I think you guys need to realize that this kid is 15 (im pretty sure), which to me is only 14. 14. I can say it again for you, 14.

Im not saying he shouldn't be punished, but when did we stop thinking about the child in all of this? No matter what punishment he receives, it needs to fit his age and his act, and not hinder is career. For all we know we will never see him again because he has to start over in B-Team and work his way through SlayerS, and then through GSL again. Im sure neither of those are something most non KR pro's could do. Yet we all expect CoCa to do it easily in 3 months or so when he is allowed to play again?
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
xXFireandIceXx
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada4296 Posts
November 17 2011 01:55 GMT
#64
On November 17 2011 10:42 ohampatu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:35 canikizu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:16 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:13 canikizu wrote:
Why are we judging them? What SlayerS and Prime did is like what our parents do to us when we did something wrong, whether with good intention or just plain stupidity. It doesn't matter if you think the matter is serious, or the teams are just trying to save face, or pressure from the netizens, in the end of the day, it's up to parents to teach kids what is right and wrong, and you can't really tell them what they did are wrong.



As a parent. I have no problem telling other parents when they are royally fucking up. If i owned a team and was a prominent figure. I would tell boxer to his face that he royally fucked up the punishment.

He should be acting as a Father Figure in this case. This is a child, and needs to be treated as such. Correct his ways, make him be more like the emporer, fix the situation. Thats not what is happening. Instead CoCa is being made an example of just so Boxer's reputation isn't hurt? Please, gimme a break

So when parents say "You're grounded until I said otherwise", and that's fucked up? Wow, that was like the softest punishment you can possibly think of. Or you want him to say "Tee hee, he's just a kid, we're sorry, that won't happen again".
How do you think that kind of apology will hold up in the future? As long as they're young and they can do stupid stuff and get away with it? What happens if all other young progamers think because they are good and young, they can get away with anything? You say Boxer is wrong when he thinks of the team when he gave that punishment, then did Coca think of the team when he did that action?
Maybe it's just mindset from different culture or something, but as an Asian, I'm truly at shocked when people think this kind of punishment is too harsh



LOL @ You.
They didn't ground CoCa. Look at SC2 progress as a set of stairs. 250 being the top where Nestea and MVP are sitting. CoCa was well over half way there, and possibly closer that even that on a good stretch near theh top. He was made to go to the very bottom, and told to wait there untill he could start climbing again.

Also, your 'parent and grounding' thing has absolutely nothing to do with what i said, nor anything to do with the punishment CoCa received. I never said they should just apologize or anything, its like your took 2 words i said, and then created your own example out of thin air.

Speaking of Cultures, maybe its an Asian thing, but possibly ruining a kids future because of one fuckup is generally not something i look kindly to, so yes i disagree. Idk, maybe its an American thing, but when i punish my son, i dont do it in a way that could ruin whatever it is he is doing. If my son does something stupid fishing, i dont punish him so badly that he'll never want to fish again. Nobody is thinking about CoCa here. They are only thinking about Boxer's Image, The Teams Image, Esports Image. SICKENS ME. Think about the fucking child.


I might be wrong, but Slayers didn't release Coca did they? Pretty sure I just saw that Coca was kicked out of the team house and A-team "indefinitely". If that really is the case, then all this "his career is ruined" business is kind of a moot point. Until Boxer decides (somehow and I doubt it) to release Coca, I wouldn't say his career is in jeopardy.
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
November 17 2011 01:57 GMT
#65
On November 17 2011 10:54 TheGiftedApe wrote:
Well heres something that is bothering me, Everythread is coca this coca that, WTF BYUN DID SOMETHING JUST AS BAD/WORSE.



Maybe your not reading what is said. Were not all on about what Coca and Byun did. Were on about how Coca was punished wrongly. Yes i agree with you, Byun was part of it, and should be in more trouble for what was put in the chat logs. He isnt the main concern because Prime didn't lynch the kid right away, which is what SlayerS did in a matter of hours.
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 01:59:10
November 17 2011 01:57 GMT
#66
On November 17 2011 10:45 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:41 Holcan wrote:
This is stupid, people throw tournament results all the time for other people to be given opportunities if they know their team doesn't care about results in a certain tournament.

He definitely shouldn't have talked about it, but to extract yourself from Code S, the hardest league to qualify for in the world, may be a career ending decision. If the team wanted to reprimand him, or forced him into this decision, I understand, but the only people who should care should be ESV, whose reputation was at stake.

Why on earth do you assume Slayers, who has a reputation to maintain and sponsor support, would not care about what one of their representatives does?

Did you miss the part where I said that if SlayerS wished to reprimand him than I understand? However SlayerS reputation is not at stake over this incident, ESVTV, a budding organization, does have an easily flexible reputation.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
sammy5222000
Profile Joined January 2011
United States44 Posts
November 17 2011 01:59 GMT
#67
I believe this situation is handled correctly because if this kind of action is not harshly punished the first time there will definitely more people who try to do it. By punishing both player so harshly it can save future incidents from happening.
Dragonmaster26
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia311 Posts
November 17 2011 01:59 GMT
#68
Coca's team mates were away so he needed high level TvZ practice. Byun has high level TvZ. Coca's match was 2 days later iirc. He needed effective practice and what better way then to face Byun in a tournament environment? It's much more real than the GSL as things like nerves and viewership play a role.

And honestly I don't know why you guys keep syaing oh Coca would have won anyway. Tastosis kept saying that Nestea was definitely going to win against Huk after Huk screwed up in the early game. What if Coca had just stopped macroing and made all his units kill each other off for BM and let Byun expand macro up and destroy him. Same thing basically; Coca jsut didn't want to waste time so he jsut GG and left. I mean its like how Idra left the game in which MMA blew up his own CC. Why isn't Idra getting kicked off the A-team? This whole incident doesn't seem to be trying to set an example for progamers but seems more like an attempt by some arrogant Korean organizations doing anything to protect their pride and reputation even if it means screwing things up for Coca.Public hate from the Korean community and a ban from ESTV is enough of a punishment; anything further is just selfish and unethical imho.

midgettoes
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia180 Posts
November 17 2011 02:00 GMT
#69
On November 17 2011 10:54 ohampatu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:46 midgettoes wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:34 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:27 midgettoes wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:05 ohampatu wrote:

I wish people stop calling this match fixing, its not. This is the same thing that happened to WhiteRa, in which his opponent was praised a Hero and even interviewed. Matchfixing would imply that he through the match for some kinda gain. There was no gain. Just wanted a Game 3. Pro's do this all the time, they plan around their maps, and will lose/create stupid builds/not try on maps they dont plan on winning.



Does this really warrant a new thread?

Also, this OP is horribly misrepresenting the facts. There was a gain. It was not a gain for Coca, but it was gain for his friend, Byun. It gave him a 2nd chance at staying alive in the tournament.

I'm unfamiliar with the White-Ra incident. Maybe explain some more?

'Just wanted a Game 3'. Then you go on to explain he 'didn't try' on the map because he didn't plan on winning? He was up 100 supply and about to a-move into byun's base when he left. There is no doubt at all he had the game won. Why would he want a 3rd game if he was taking the tournament seriously? Your claim in the OP is ridiculous to me.


OP of other thread didn't have polls. I didn't want to put polls in the middle of the OP, and the OP didn't seem to be online in the discussion still. So yes, i warranted that it needed a new thread. Polls are the easiest way to show the 'community reaction'.

You are misrepresenting the facts. Have you read the full chat log? and not just the couple screenshots?
Coca's next opponent was a protoss player (if he won). He knew that he would win that because he is boss at zvp.
He was up 1-0, and winning the second game decisively. He agreed to leave the game so that they could play a third match so he could have zvt practice. He did not leave the game because he wanted Byun to win. I think people need to realize that. He didn't leave to let another player win, he left so he could finish the full set before going on to his protoss opponent.


How is the fact he would win the next series easily (and who can garuantee that in a tournament anyway?) justification for wanting a full series? The idea of a tournament is to progress and win. What Coca did was against the whole concept of a tournament (best players wins). As other people have said, you are simply misinformed. If Coca wanted ZvT practice he had the full army of SlayerS' terran to practice against - some of the best TvZers in the world. This excuse is pathetic - he deserved it.

Also, comparing this to the White-Ra incidient is ridiculous. Someone getting DQed and then the opposition effectively saying 'let's make this an even playing field rather than exploit the extended series' vs someone 'wanting more practice' (which I still don't even believe is the reason) is so different. If you can't see that... well... /shrug



1. A person threw 2 matches against White-Ra to even it up, to make a bo3.
2. This example, a person threw 1 match to even it up, for a final game.

Both are apples to apples. A person, threw the match on purpose, so as to have more games. I dont care if you are a White-Ra fanboy and think its cool just cause it was White-Ra so you dont want to call it matchfixing, but it was.

Do you remember the game when 2 people purposely tried to lose so as not to play Sen? This shit happens more than people care to admit. You guys are just super objective about it based who who did it, and what region it was in. The only reason this punishment happened to CoCa is because he is a Korean on Boxer's Team. He was made an example of. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, thats what being 'made an example' of is. All of this was done to save face for Boxer/SlayerS/Prime/GSL/ESV. I think you guys need to realize that this kid is 15 (im pretty sure), which to me is only 14. 14. I can say it again for you, 14.

Im not saying he shouldn't be punished, but when did we stop thinking about the child in all of this? No matter what punishment he receives, it needs to fit his age and his act, and not hinder is career. For all we know we will never see him again because he has to start over in B-Team and work his way through SlayerS, and then through GSL again. Im sure neither of those are something most non KR pro's could do. Yet we all expect CoCa to do it easily in 3 months or so when he is allowed to play again?


Just quickly...

1) A person threw 2 matches, that they never won but were awarded because of a DQ. The person was then awarded a 2-0 lead in an extended series that they knew they didn't earn.
2) A person threw a won game. They earnt 2 wins by that point.

If you reduce the situations to that point of simplicity and ignore other factors you are being ridiculous. You can't ignore the extraneous circumstances of White-Ra's case. There were no such circumstances for Coca. He was just being an idiot. This kid is also 17 if you care to do some research. Maybe you are confusing him with Leenock. Get your facts right...
Nighthawks28
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:02:00
November 17 2011 02:01 GMT
#70
If you don't want to compare it to white-ra incident.

How about when idra forfeited the rest of the games against nerchio. Or how about idra forfeiting the rest of his IPL3 group matches b/c it was just for seeding and he felt it was meaningless, even though extra money was involved. Or how about demuslim forfeiting the rest of his matches to Idra, which allowed Idra to qualify for ESWC (I know demuslim forfeited b/c his schedule conflicted with the main tournament but he still played in a qualifier and eliminated players, even though he couldn't attend but he could've read the tournament info before hand).

How about select not trying his best in season 1 of NASL against MC in the group matches b/c select didn't want to be the #1 seed going into the finals (b/c the #1 seed played the winner of the open bracket, which ended up being Puma).

This happens all the time. It's just that coca/byum just did stupid stuff.
MK4512
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada938 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:02:31
November 17 2011 02:01 GMT
#71
Artosis said it best,

Match fixing ruins the fans experience/wastes their time, and brings down the 'competitive' side of E-Sports. Who wants to watch a final if they know that both players are getting the same cut? Ro32 or Ro4, it doesn't matter.

He deserved what he got, being good is not an excuse to be let off with a slap on the wrist. He's definitely no savior, but match fixing is one of the things that could KILL starcraft/esports.
Chill: "Please let us know when you will be streaming yourself eating a hat so I can put it on the calendar. Thanks."
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
November 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#72
On November 17 2011 10:55 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:42 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:35 canikizu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:16 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:13 canikizu wrote:
Why are we judging them? What SlayerS and Prime did is like what our parents do to us when we did something wrong, whether with good intention or just plain stupidity. It doesn't matter if you think the matter is serious, or the teams are just trying to save face, or pressure from the netizens, in the end of the day, it's up to parents to teach kids what is right and wrong, and you can't really tell them what they did are wrong.



As a parent. I have no problem telling other parents when they are royally fucking up. If i owned a team and was a prominent figure. I would tell boxer to his face that he royally fucked up the punishment.

He should be acting as a Father Figure in this case. This is a child, and needs to be treated as such. Correct his ways, make him be more like the emporer, fix the situation. Thats not what is happening. Instead CoCa is being made an example of just so Boxer's reputation isn't hurt? Please, gimme a break

So when parents say "You're grounded until I said otherwise", and that's fucked up? Wow, that was like the softest punishment you can possibly think of. Or you want him to say "Tee hee, he's just a kid, we're sorry, that won't happen again".
How do you think that kind of apology will hold up in the future? As long as they're young and they can do stupid stuff and get away with it? What happens if all other young progamers think because they are good and young, they can get away with anything? You say Boxer is wrong when he thinks of the team when he gave that punishment, then did Coca think of the team when he did that action?
Maybe it's just mindset from different culture or something, but as an Asian, I'm truly at shocked when people think this kind of punishment is too harsh



LOL @ You.
They didn't ground CoCa. Look at SC2 progress as a set of stairs. 250 being the top where Nestea and MVP are sitting. CoCa was well over half way there, and possibly closer that even that on a good stretch near theh top. He was made to go to the very bottom, and told to wait there untill he could start climbing again.

Also, your 'parent and grounding' thing has absolutely nothing to do with what i said, nor anything to do with the punishment CoCa received. I never said they should just apologize or anything, its like your took 2 words i said, and then created your own example out of thin air.

Speaking of Cultures, maybe its an Asian thing, but possibly ruining a kids future because of one fuckup is generally not something i look kindly to, so yes i disagree. Idk, maybe its an American thing, but when i punish my son, i dont do it in a way that could ruin whatever it is he is doing. If my son does something stupid fishing, i dont punish him so badly that he'll never want to fish again. Nobody is thinking about CoCa here. They are only thinking about Boxer's Image, The Teams Image, Esports Image. SICKENS ME. Think about the fucking child.


I might be wrong, but Slayers didn't release Coca did they? Pretty sure I just saw that Coca was kicked out of the team house and A-team "indefinitely". If that really is the case, then all this "his career is ruined" business is kind of a moot point. Until Boxer decides (somehow and I doubt it) to release Coca, I wouldn't say his career is in jeopardy.

And for all we know, Boxer will just ground him until the public cools down, that's all, it may not even take 2,3 weeks, or 1 GSL season.

Look at people like Leenock, that kid dropped out of code S, then code A, requalified, got to code A, then now he got to round 8 code S. Dropping out of code S is not a career ruining move, yes it's harsh, but that's the point.
Rhodon
Profile Joined July 2011
United States51 Posts
November 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#73
FIRE!
All a man needs is to love and to be loved
xXFireandIceXx
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada4296 Posts
November 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#74
On November 17 2011 10:59 Dragonmaster26 wrote:
Coca's team mates were away so he needed high level TvZ practice. Byun has high level TvZ. Coca's match was 2 days later iirc. He needed effective practice and what better way then to face Byun in a tournament environment? It's much more real than the GSL as things like nerves and viewership play a role.

And honestly I don't know why you guys keep syaing oh Coca would have won anyway. Tastosis kept saying that Nestea was definitely going to win against Huk after Huk screwed up in the early game. What if Coca had just stopped macroing and made all his units kill each other off for BM and let Byun expand macro up and destroy him. Same thing basically; Coca jsut didn't want to waste time so he jsut GG and left. I mean its like how Idra left the game in which MMA blew up his own CC. Why isn't Idra getting kicked off the A-team? This whole incident doesn't seem to be trying to set an example for progamers but seems more like an attempt by some arrogant Korean organizations doing anything to protect their pride and reputation even if it means screwing things up for Coca.Public hate from the Korean community and a ban from ESTV is enough of a punishment; anything further is just selfish and unethical imho.



Boxer sending Coca off to think about what he's done isn't exactly selfish, or unethical. Still, if Coca was released/fired, then I would say that Slayers went too far. For crying out loud, all that's happened to Coca is:

A) forfeited Code-S position (which I honestly think he can win back)
B) public "hate"
C) a little time for reflection
haka
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1414 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:03:10
November 17 2011 02:02 GMT
#75
Straight from liquipedia: Birth Date: 1994-04-14 Age: 17 (Korean: 18)

I think you're taking this, "Think of the children!" angle too far. Anyways, Coca (and Byun) are still in the scene. There is a chance. Their careers aren't over, at least as far as I know.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
November 17 2011 02:04 GMT
#76
On November 17 2011 11:01 Nighthawks28 wrote:
If you don't want to compare it to white-ra incident.

How about when idra forfeited the rest of the games against nerchio. Or how about idra forfeiting the rest of his IPL3 group matches b/c it was just for seeding and he felt it was meaningless, even though extra money was involved. Or how about demuslim forfeiting the rest of his matches to Idra, which allowed Idra to qualify for ESWC (I know demuslim forfeited b/c his schedule conflicted with the main tournament but he still played in a qualifier and eliminated players, even though he couldn't attend but he could've read the tournament info before hand).


Forfeiting before you play the matches can not be compared to quitting a game and surrendering although you know that you won. The first can be put into bad sportmanship, which is not nice but okay, the latter is "matchfixing", which effects should be clear on eSports.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
November 17 2011 02:04 GMT
#77
On November 17 2011 11:00 midgettoes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:54 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:46 midgettoes wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:34 ohampatu wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:27 midgettoes wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:05 ohampatu wrote:

I wish people stop calling this match fixing, its not. This is the same thing that happened to WhiteRa, in which his opponent was praised a Hero and even interviewed. Matchfixing would imply that he through the match for some kinda gain. There was no gain. Just wanted a Game 3. Pro's do this all the time, they plan around their maps, and will lose/create stupid builds/not try on maps they dont plan on winning.



Does this really warrant a new thread?

Also, this OP is horribly misrepresenting the facts. There was a gain. It was not a gain for Coca, but it was gain for his friend, Byun. It gave him a 2nd chance at staying alive in the tournament.

I'm unfamiliar with the White-Ra incident. Maybe explain some more?

'Just wanted a Game 3'. Then you go on to explain he 'didn't try' on the map because he didn't plan on winning? He was up 100 supply and about to a-move into byun's base when he left. There is no doubt at all he had the game won. Why would he want a 3rd game if he was taking the tournament seriously? Your claim in the OP is ridiculous to me.


OP of other thread didn't have polls. I didn't want to put polls in the middle of the OP, and the OP didn't seem to be online in the discussion still. So yes, i warranted that it needed a new thread. Polls are the easiest way to show the 'community reaction'.

You are misrepresenting the facts. Have you read the full chat log? and not just the couple screenshots?
Coca's next opponent was a protoss player (if he won). He knew that he would win that because he is boss at zvp.
He was up 1-0, and winning the second game decisively. He agreed to leave the game so that they could play a third match so he could have zvt practice. He did not leave the game because he wanted Byun to win. I think people need to realize that. He didn't leave to let another player win, he left so he could finish the full set before going on to his protoss opponent.


How is the fact he would win the next series easily (and who can garuantee that in a tournament anyway?) justification for wanting a full series? The idea of a tournament is to progress and win. What Coca did was against the whole concept of a tournament (best players wins). As other people have said, you are simply misinformed. If Coca wanted ZvT practice he had the full army of SlayerS' terran to practice against - some of the best TvZers in the world. This excuse is pathetic - he deserved it.

Also, comparing this to the White-Ra incidient is ridiculous. Someone getting DQed and then the opposition effectively saying 'let's make this an even playing field rather than exploit the extended series' vs someone 'wanting more practice' (which I still don't even believe is the reason) is so different. If you can't see that... well... /shrug



1. A person threw 2 matches against White-Ra to even it up, to make a bo3.
2. This example, a person threw 1 match to even it up, for a final game.

Both are apples to apples. A person, threw the match on purpose, so as to have more games. I dont care if you are a White-Ra fanboy and think its cool just cause it was White-Ra so you dont want to call it matchfixing, but it was.

Do you remember the game when 2 people purposely tried to lose so as not to play Sen? This shit happens more than people care to admit. You guys are just super objective about it based who who did it, and what region it was in. The only reason this punishment happened to CoCa is because he is a Korean on Boxer's Team. He was made an example of. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, thats what being 'made an example' of is. All of this was done to save face for Boxer/SlayerS/Prime/GSL/ESV. I think you guys need to realize that this kid is 15 (im pretty sure), which to me is only 14. 14. I can say it again for you, 14.

Im not saying he shouldn't be punished, but when did we stop thinking about the child in all of this? No matter what punishment he receives, it needs to fit his age and his act, and not hinder is career. For all we know we will never see him again because he has to start over in B-Team and work his way through SlayerS, and then through GSL again. Im sure neither of those are something most non KR pro's could do. Yet we all expect CoCa to do it easily in 3 months or so when he is allowed to play again?


Just quickly...

1) A person threw 2 matches, that they never won but were awarded because of a DQ. The person was then awarded a 2-0 lead in an extended series that they knew they didn't earn.
2) A person threw a won game. They earnt 2 wins by that point.

If you reduce the situations to that point of simplicity and ignore other factors you are being ridiculous. You can't ignore the extraneous circumstances of White-Ra's case. There were no such circumstances for Coca. He was just being an idiot. This kid is also 17 if you care to do some research. Maybe you are confusing him with Leenock. Get your facts right...


No. You have to reduce situations down to this. Its that simple and dry. Its either 'ok' to leave game, or its not. You can't say 'oh well because of so and so its ok, but because of this its not'. The rules need to apply across the board. You keep bringing that up, but ignoring when the 2 players tried to 'lose on purpose' so as not to play sen. In the other thread it was almost mentioned early on Demu giving a game to Idra on purpose. There is no 'circumstances' that makes it ok to matchfix. Its either ok, or its not. I agree that its not. Thats when the 'circumstances' should be used to apply the correct punishment. In white-ra's case the circumstances made the dude a hero. In this case it makes CoCa look way worse than he is.
I apologize, i do believe in my statement i put that i wasn't for sure. Is that KR age? Because if so 16 is no different than 14. Still a fucking child.
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:07:41
November 17 2011 02:06 GMT
#78
On November 17 2011 11:04 ohampatu wrote:
Is that KR age? Because if so 16 is no different than 14. Still a fucking child.


Birthdate: 1994, do the math....
Seriously he is not a "kid"...more a young adult
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ninjamyst
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1903 Posts
November 17 2011 02:09 GMT
#79
Why do we need another thread about this???? Why?????????
Nighthawks28
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:10:46
November 17 2011 02:10 GMT
#80
On November 17 2011 11:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 11:01 Nighthawks28 wrote:
If you don't want to compare it to white-ra incident.

How about when idra forfeited the rest of the games against nerchio. Or how about idra forfeiting the rest of his IPL3 group matches b/c it was just for seeding and he felt it was meaningless, even though extra money was involved. Or how about demuslim forfeiting the rest of his matches to Idra, which allowed Idra to qualify for ESWC (I know demuslim forfeited b/c his schedule conflicted with the main tournament but he still played in a qualifier and eliminated players, even though he couldn't attend but he could've read the tournament info before hand).


Forfeiting before you play the matches can not be compared to quitting a game and surrendering although you know that you won. The first can be put into bad sportmanship, which is not nice but okay, the latter is "matchfixing", which effects should be clear on eSports.


You didn't quote my entire post. How about when I mentioned when players obviously are not trying their best to win and are purposely losing for things like seeding purposes (which has happened many times)
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