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I wish people stop calling this match fixing, its not. This is the same thing that happened to WhiteRa, in which his opponent was praised a Hero and even interviewed. Matchfixing would imply that he through the match for some kinda gain.
If it was matchfixing in the truest extent of the word they should have been banned from SC2 competition for life. He absolutely got a fair punishment, though. The Gimix situation was different, I think anyone can see that. These guys threw games just out of the blue, when the games actually mattered to certain players. Gimix threw matches at a personal loss, and while Coca gains nothing, his former teammate does. I think the punishments were just.
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Yes, "Starcraft 2 players throw games when against friends for fun and practice" is not an association I want.
In fact, thanks to this thread, I'm having serious doubts if I want to continue associating myself and my company with this community and even Blizzard Entertainment given their lack of action despite charging serious sums from organizers.
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I put this in the original thread, and I'll post it again.
Look at what recently happened to the Brood War scene. Look at how many great games and names were completely tarnished. SaviOr was completely demolished by his max fixing shit. I mean, that kind of shit can't be bounced back from -- it was horrible.
Despite how innocent this was, despite how overblown it was, I think it was necessary. CoCa was our sacrificial lamb, in a sense. We can't let that shit happen to this game, especially in such an early stage. If this kind of shit is going on about something this small, it gives the message that anything actually serious won't be tolerated whatsoever and will only further stunt any attempts at it.
I do think the punishment was excessive, but it had to be done to get the message across -- none of this shit should not, and will not be tolerated in this new scene.
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United States7313 Posts
I feel like there is an overreaction to SlayerS' overreaction. The punishment may be a bit stiff but anyone saying Coca's career is ruined is exaggerating. He will be back to competing within a couple months. SC2 is gonna be around for a long time and Coca will just look back on this as an embarrassing gaffe.
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This is why GOM should only let you qualify for Code A through their own preliminary tournament(MLG is alright too). People don't throw games there because everyone is trying to get code A.
I think CoCa should be banned from ESV and gom should reevaluate how they handle code A spots.
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Yeah I want to echo that it seems like some certain pro-gamers don't take this as seriously as they need to for this to become a serious business-worthy venture. I think this a very hard smack to get people's attention. Even if you can argue it's slightly harsh, it certainly doesn't become an unjust punishment
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On November 17 2011 10:24 Kaxon wrote:
You don't throw games in a tournament, period. If he needed more practice against Terran he should have been playing custom games with one of the million good terrans in the SlayerS house. I believe it was a dumb mistake and not intentional cheating, so they shouldn't be banned for life. But there was a GSL spot on the line, so temporarily banning them from the GSL is totally appropriate. They're lucky, they got off pretty easy.
lol you didn't think he thought about practicing with his teammates before trying to use the tournament for practice?
There was obviously a reason as to why he couldn't practice with the Slayers Terrans at that time. I doubt playing a tournament and hoping to match up vs all Terrans through it was his first choice.
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I don't see this is the lifechanging consequence that the OP suggests. I find this type of thing really disheartening and it needs to be discouraged harshly.
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I really think that this should be contained in the other thread.
It was handled by the decision makers in both the team and the tournament organizers. They know how serious the issue is and they are closest to the players and the situation.
Everyone has their own opinion and voicing it is fine, but we should respect that of both Slayers and the ESV Korean Weekly.
I don't see the need to discuss the topic outside of the original thread, which contained all the important information.
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These players are competitors. The last thing I want to see is that the sport gets discredited because of the actions of the few like coca. If they want this to be a competition, they have to act like it's a competition. No free wins. The situation was handled correctly. He merely got a slap on the wrist mainly. Losing his tournament position is nothing compared to what has happened to other match fixers. Sure giving a free win is not that "same" --- but it has the same premise; giving illegitimate wins. It does not matter if it's for personal profit or not, it's wrong.
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On November 17 2011 11:46 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Yes, "Starcraft 2 players throw games when against friends for fun and practice" is not an association I want.
In fact, thanks to this thread, I'm having serious doubts if I want to continue associating myself and my company with this community and even Blizzard Entertainment given their lack of action despite charging serious sums from organizers.
good riddance imo.
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On November 17 2011 11:48 red4ce wrote:
I feel like there is an overreaction to SlayerS' overreaction. The punishment may be a bit stiff but anyone saying Coca's career is ruined is exaggerating. He will be back to competing within a couple months. SC2 is gonna be around for a long time and Coca will just look back on this as an embarrassing gaffe.
Agreed. This is far more annoying. The OP isn't in any position to judge whether Boxer has royally fucked up on handing out punishments until he actually owns a team of that stature in Korea.
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I don't even know how this can be considered as match-fixing. Practically nothing was on the line. It's quite obvious from the games and the tone they used to chat in game that they were just screwing around. They were treating these games as practice games. I doubt any of them actually care about the prize money. If anything, they should be punished for not respecting the tournament format. I mean if they just want practice games they should not even be signing up for it and ESV should be the one taking up the responsibility to mete out the punishments.
The punishment being dealt out is just way too severe for their actions. The e-sport scene is driven by money, and if you think the actions by coca and byun in this small tournament with small prize money can potentially kill e-sports or by 'disrespecting' the fans, you are just being retarded. Fans just treat this tourny like showmatches as a means to see more games from korean players, not to see who actually win it in the end. The winner of the tourny might not even be the best player, as the best players will choose not to reveal their strats when there is another tourny worth 40k+ on the line. I think the ones complaining didn't even watch the games. If you even bother to read the LR thread, you can see that the viewers actually enjoyed the fact that they were screwing around. Some might be perplexed at coca gg-ing, but i think none were actually angry about it.
If the slayers team are purposely dealing out their own internal punishments to prevent further public backlash from the netizens (koreans are too sensitive with anything linked to match-fixing after the savior incident) so as to protect coca, then i can understand. But if they are punishing coca just because their reputation is on the line, then well.. i am just disappointed.
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Burn them with fire.
I think the punishment is fair, for Coca. Byun seems to be off lightly since, well he didn't have a Code A spot and I haven't heard/read GSL has enacted any additional punishment.
The ESV is for a Code A spot as well. This affects every other pro-gamer in Korea attempting to qualify for that tournament by giving cheating to give Byun an edge. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered in the end, but it could have. This wasn't performed in a vacuum and it did have potential consequence for who competed in GSL as well. Burn them with fire.
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I feel that he should not have dropped code S, he is 17 ffs. We all have made stupid mistakes and this is his career we r talking about I dont think it should be destroyed for one incident.
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On November 17 2011 12:14 Son of Gnome wrote:
I feel that he should not have dropped code S, he is 17 ffs. We all have made stupid mistakes and this is his career we r talking about I dont think it should be destroyed for one incident.
He has the option to re-build, mature and grow up.
Since this is a game of skill, and he stays ontop of that, there is nothing that limits his success.
All punishments in my opinion are fine for coca, jessica is a hard girl that wont let him get off easy without changing that mindset.
Wheres byuns punishment?
On November 17 2011 12:06 babysimba wrote:
The winner of the tourny might not even be the best player, as the best players will choose not to reveal their strats when there is another tourny worth 40k+ on the line.
There is a Code A spot on the line, most competitors in this tournament would see this as unfair if they are fighting for that spot?
Its like, coca has nothing to lose, byun has everything to gain, and the competitors are shafted..
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Why make another thread for this?
What people seem to forget is that koreans treat e sports way more seriously than us foreigners. They struggled for a long time to make people accept e sports as a legit competition. They went from teams giving a modest salary(or hell, even sometimes just food and accomodations if Boxer biography is something I can base myself) to teams giving 6 figure salaries to their superstars, sponsored by major corporations.
For them this is a high level competition where it can be expected that both players are giving all their effort, to just ignore this kind of stuff(small or big tournament those 2 players showed little respect for the competition) would be basically going a step back. I know even in other sports this kind of stuff can happen, the difference is that they don't do it shamelessly on the open(and that makes a lot of difference)
tl;dr
koreans:"We want the players to treat this as a competition where they will always give it all, no matter if small or big"
And guess what? SlayerS and the korean teams have the korean fans to respond to.
Was the punishment harsh? maybe
Did they deserve punishment? Yes according to them, hell some netizens(according to the translations) thought it was not enough.
To us this may just be a game, for them its a competition. I am not asking anybody to respect the decision, but at least try to understand it. E sports in Korea was grown from zero to what it is right now, and that took a lot of effort blood sweat and tears to accomplish, at least respect that.
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What if Byun after potentially winning the 3rd game, gg out too, would this be considered match fixing? If Savior's case didn't happen, would this incident even be brought up? It seems to me people (including koreans) are unconsciously re-directing their hate of savior and fear of letting that happen again towards coca and byun. They should isolate and look at these incidents separately before dealing out the punishment. They definitely deserve punishment but not at this extent.
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It doesn't make sense that Byun is getting a lesser punishment than Coca. Prime needs to be harder on him. The punishments are imba since technically Byun did the most wrong.
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On November 17 2011 12:29 Clefairy wrote:
It doesn't make sense that Byun is getting a lesser punishment than Coca. Prime needs to be harder on him. The punishments are imba.
Byun is not qualified in the GSL. Coca was forced by SlayerS to withdraw (technically this is a voluntary withdrawal from the GSL). Both are temporarily banned from ESV.
You are horribly misinformed and there is no 'lesser' punishment.
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EPT
