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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
I see that you are a progamer yourself. Therefore your words carry some weight in this community. I have also taken into account of posters from Singapore and their opinion on this incident. I have thus decided to cancel business plans for a US$120,000 Winner-take-all tournament operating out of Singapore on Blizzard's SEA server due to the lack of professionalism by both the professional community and their fan base. Edit: Grammar. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:29 Clefairy wrote: It doesn't make sense that Byun is getting a lesser punishment than Coca. Prime needs to be harder on him. The punishments are imba since technically Byun did the most wrong. I don't know, technically Coca committed the crime and not Byun. He only asked for the win. Coca could have just said no and went on the win and there would be no controversy. I do think Prime should say something (or maybe they have and OPs haven't been updated). As for people who think this was fine. Would this be acceptable in Golf or Tennis? Do you think those sports would just shrug it off? Probably burn them with fire. | ||
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Clefairy
1570 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:32 Remb wrote: Byun is not qualified in the GSL. Coca was forced by SlayerS to withdraw (technically this is a voluntary withdrawal from the GSL). Both are temporarily banned from ESV. You are horribly misinformed and there is no 'lesser' punishment. Coca lost his Code S spot and got kicked out of the SlayerS house. Byun is still in the Prime house and didn't lose any spot. Both are banned from tournaments for a while. Imba. On November 17 2011 12:36 VillageBC wrote: I don't know, technically Coca committed the crime and not Byun. He only asked for the win. Coca could have just said no and went on the win and there would be no controversy. I do think Prime should say something (or maybe they have and OPs haven't been updated). That's true indeed. Then maybe it is balanced. | ||
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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courtpanda
866 Posts
MOTIVATION or coca's reason for "match fixing" he had nothing to gain from this. this has be thought of when comparing this to savior. savior made money off of his match fixing. if coca made any money, it would be out of byun's pocket, which wouldnt be much probably. savior did it for personal gain coca was helping a friend. its two completely separate issues. he shouldnt be punished too severely | ||
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slicknav
1409 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:37 Clefairy wrote: Coca lost his Code S spot and got kicked out of the SlayerS house. Byun is still in the Prime house and didn't lose any spot. Both are banned from tournaments for a while. Imba. wasn't it Prime and Slayers decision to ban them from competitive play? It was a team decision to prevent them from competing, I don't see what the big deal is. | ||
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Sadist
United States7219 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:21 windsupernova wrote: Why make another thread for this? What people seem to forget is that koreans treat e sports way more seriously than us foreigners. They struggled for a long time to make people accept e sports as a legit competition. They went from teams giving a modest salary(or hell, even sometimes just food and accomodations if Boxer biography is something I can base myself) to teams giving 6 figure salaries to their superstars, sponsored by major corporations. For them this is a high level competition where it can be expected that both players are giving all their effort, to just ignore this kind of stuff(small or big tournament those 2 players showed little respect for the competition) would be basically going a step back. I know even in other sports this kind of stuff can happen, the difference is that they don't do it shamelessly on the open(and that makes a lot of difference) tl;dr koreans:"We want the players to treat this as a competition where they will always give it all, no matter if small or big" And guess what? SlayerS and the korean teams have the korean fans to respond to. Was the punishment harsh? maybe Did they deserve punishment? Yes according to them, hell some netizens(according to the translations) thought it was not enough. To us this may just be a game, for them its a competition. I am not asking anybody to respect the decision, but at least try to understand it. E sports in Korea was grown from zero to what it is right now, and that took a lot of effort blood sweat and tears to accomplish, at least respect that. This is pretty much bullshit. Koreans have repeatedly thrown games in WCG for BW to avoid playing each other and there have been several incidents were players have thrown games in other competitions. Basically every year in WCG the koreans threw games. Just do some research. Also, maybe this is a new trend because of what happened with savior........but realistically rigging shit has happened before. I remember one of the korean TV stations that had a War3 league rigged maps without telling the players to help "balance" the game as they saw it. | ||
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BigLighthouse
United Kingdom424 Posts
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Msr
Korea (South)495 Posts
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Buubble
United States191 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:40 courtpanda wrote: IMO the BIGGEST question here not being asked (that i saw, didnt read through the whole thread) is MOTIVATION or coca's reason for "match fixing" he had nothing to gain from this. this has be thought of when comparing this to savior. savior made money off of his match fixing. if coca made any money, it would be out of byun's pocket, which wouldnt be much probably. savior did it for personal gain coca was helping a friend. its two completely separate issues. he shouldnt be punished too severely Where do you draw the line though? Who said that this isn't an elaborate plot they set up before the game in an email where if Byun happens to get 2-0 he'll pretend to beg and coca would throw the game? I agree with you, and I think everyone else agrees with you and feel bad for Coca because he didn't seem to have a malicious intent. I also understand that Boxer/Jessica/GSL is coming from a professional stand point, and they are emphasizing the fact that NOTHING of this sort will be tolerated, because, you know, it's a fucking professional scene. I agree it's unfair for the player, but I think he was the example that needed to be set, and we should all take this as a lesson and move on. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:40 Sadist wrote: This is pretty much bullshit. Koreans have repeatedly thrown games in WCG for BW to avoid playing each other and there have been several incidents were players have thrown games in other competitions. Basically every year in WCG the koreans threw games. Just do some research. Also, maybe this is a new trend because of what happened with savior........but realistically rigging shit has happened before. I remember one of the korean TV stations that had a War3 league rigged maps without telling the players to help "balance" the game as they saw it. I know, but they don't do it blatantly on the open. That makes all the difference in the world. I am sure players from many sports do stuff like this, the thing is that they don't go and shamelessly do it in the open. While it may be the same "crime" the fact that they did it so shamelessly gives out such a terrible message of "I don't care about this competition". come on man, I even mentioned it on my post that what made the difference was that they did it shamelessly on camera. About the W3 maps thing. I can't comment on that. But W3 never got a prestigious status in korea. E: And of course the Savior incident has a lot to do with this. He made such a mess of a scene that a lot of people worked on because of his selfish actions. | ||
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Kibibit
United States1551 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:40 Sadist wrote: This is pretty much bullshit. Koreans have repeatedly thrown games in WCG for BW to avoid playing each other and there have been several incidents were players have thrown games in other competitions. Basically every year in WCG the koreans threw games. Just do some research. Also, maybe this is a new trend because of what happened with savior........but realistically rigging shit has happened before. I remember one of the korean TV stations that had a War3 league rigged maps without telling the players to help "balance" the game as they saw it. To be fair, that was also the start of a really harsh fall for the Korean war3 scene. There's a reason that newer War3 fans barely know the Korean scene existed. That said, I personally believe that no, he did not 1:1 deserve what he got, but I think it's integral for the integrity of the sport that we show zero tolerance for things such as this. Removing him from the house is REALLY harsh, but if nothing else, it's a strong deterrent for other players plotting such things. (Or at least it should be. Id've thought the BW scandal would've gotten it through people's heads that it's serious business) | ||
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asaed
United States1412 Posts
This is competitive professional sports. If we think Starcraft 2 is going to lead the way in professional gaming, then both players should probably be practically banned from SC2! Okay, that's probably too harsh, but I do think the penalty was justified, and I could have imagined even more of a penalty. First of all, ESTV is NOT at ALL meaningless! It's for a spot in the GSL. Those are very high stakes, especially for the number of other players who were trying to compete to win that weekly. Second, whether or not it is match fixing is just semantics. The point is that the player openly admitted to not at all playing the game, and in fact, seemed to imply that he would deliberately lose (not just lose game 2 but also game 3). If you just leave a game and throw it, how can we be sure that you won't throw game 3? In other words, there's NO check at ALL to players throwing or fixing matches. There's just no way we can tell--a player could just decide before hand what is going to happen in the match. That's in part why this is such a serious offense! Sports players DO NOT joke about match fixing or throwing games... they understand how serious the situation is. I think we need this kind of culture/ethos in esports if this activity is EVER going to be taken seriously! FOR ESPORTS!! | ||
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VTPerfect
United States487 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I see that you are a progamer yourself. Therefore your words carry some weight in this community. I have also taken into account of posters from Singapore and their opinion on this incident. I have thus decided to cancel business plans for a US$120,000 Winner-take-all tournament operating out of Singapore on Blizzard's SEA server due to the lack of professionalism by both the professional community and their fan base. Edit: Grammar. Lol epic fail. Not by VPCursed but by you. Firstly Cursed isnt on a team and currently isn't a Progamer. Secondly that shows you know very little about Sc2 Progaming at all. Thirdly you not holding a 120k tournament doesnt mean thats -120k out of esports. Entities are going to spend that much money on Esports without you and for the better too since you know nothing at all. So in that regard good riddance | ||
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John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
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Buubble
United States191 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:58 asaed wrote: The OP is probably the worst and uninformed opinion I have ever heard. This is competitive professional sports. If we think Starcraft 2 is going to lead the way in professional gaming, then both players should probably be practically banned from SC2! Okay, that's probably too harsh, but I do think the penalty was justified, and I could have imagined even more of a penalty. First of all, ESTV is NOT at ALL meaningless! It's for a spot in the GSL. Those are very high stakes, especially for the number of other players who were trying to compete to win that weekly. Second, whether or not it is match fixing is just semantics. The point is that the player openly admitted to not at all playing the game, and in fact, seemed to imply that he would deliberately lose (not just lose game 2 but also game 3). If you just leave a game and throw it, how can we be sure that you won't throw game 3? In other words, there's NO check at ALL to players throwing or fixing matches. There's just no way we can tell--a player could just decide before hand what is going to happen in the match. That's in part why this is such a serious offense! Sports players DO NOT joke about match fixing or throwing games... they understand how serious the situation is. I think we need this kind of culture/ethos in esports if this activity is EVER going to be taken seriously! FOR ESPORTS!! for Esports!  | ||
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johngalt90
United States357 Posts
On November 17 2011 12:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I see that you are a progamer yourself. Therefore your words carry some weight in this community. I have also taken into account of posters from Singapore and their opinion on this incident. I have thus decided to cancel business plans for a US$120,000 Winner-take-all tournament operating out of Singapore on Blizzard's SEA server due to the lack of professionalism by both the professional community and their fan base. Edit: Grammar. yea well I was going to plan one for a cool milli and now cuz of your post i won't anymore... On the other hand this is the most ridiculous e-drama. there is a huge difference between match fixing and forfeiting, coca forfeited savior match fixed. Savior's incident was involving esports gambling and he was intentionally throwing matches for huge sums of cash. Coca forfeited a game because he didnt really care if he won or lost. Now he isn't in Code S and he's kicked out of slayers? this a huge overreaction and a prime example (seewhatididthere  of how mobs can get carried away. This wasn't justice it was a witch hunt. Coca wants to go to game 3? i doesnt make a lot of sense but who gives a damn. Where was this anger when nestea obviously threw his game at blizzcon? What if he worker rushed byun would we be standing here having this conversation now.I understand ESV's point of view that you don't want players participatinng who aren't going to play and suspending coca and byun from ESV is very fair if only for the message "hey we are a real tournament and we expect all particpants to take our event seriously and proffesionally" I also understand concerns of profane language on chat, Its public and televised you shouldn't be using foul language in such a manner. But comparing this to savior who participated in real match fixing is pure defamation. Now if some bit of information were to come out that coca accepted a bribe to lose the match that changes it, however there is as of right now no evidence to suggest that. | ||
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
'Match fixing' by a player denotes one thing: deciding the result of the match by means other than properly playing it [including pre-determining the result before the match, and deciding to do it during the match, like this incident]. 'Match-fixing' however also connotes and suggests evil and corrupt motives. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to separate the two ideas in the minds of people. Many people are also taking the whole thing too literally; "They fixed result; fixing result = match-fixing; match-fixing = they should DIE" (without taking differing situation of match-fixing into account] BTW, the option in the poll to make them burn was too tempting to not choose. | ||
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LeBaron
Canada9 Posts
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NoScary
United States151 Posts
On November 17 2011 10:24 Flamingo777 wrote: I used to be part of the Super Smash Brothers fighting game community, and used to participate, and do well in tournaments where money would be on the line. Sometimes thousands of dollars would be on the line in major tournaments. There has always been debate on match splitting (Where the top two placing competitors can agree to split the combined 1st and 2nd prize, and simply play an exhibition match to settle the official placements if the players are tired, or the venue needs to shut down, etc. I remember when splitting the pot was super common in SSBM | ||
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