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A 1/1/1 is moving towards your base. A single replicator would stop it. This is the most powerful use of the replicator that I was able to come up with. Replicating a single siege tank would take marines down. A second replicator could be used to get a banshee to work over his tanks or the marines who survive the tank, or perform a counterharass.
Getting a worker would be an incredible risk. It would be a long time before it would pay for itself. The whole point of the unit is that you pay a little extra resources in order to get strategic access to a unit that you normally do not have access to. Tanks or Ghosts, and possibly Ravens seem like they would be more appropriate. Fungal Growth may be an interesting thing, but in all honesty infestors seem like they are more specialized for Zerg, and would be less useful on the protoss.
I am assuming that only the replicated unit gets access to the upgrade and not all the units. Otherwise this would turn PvP into a ridiculous stagnant tech fight... kinda like it has always been.
Viper may be fun... Getting to inject a detect onto an Immortal would be useful, but of course all the Vipers ability would be cool for protoss. Swarm Host have yet to be seen.
Realistically, I only see uses for replicators against Terran and Vipers.
But I think their presence in the tech tree is going to change all the matchups considerably. I am looking forward to it!
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The only reliable uses seem to be screwing up timing attacks and stealing useful casters (ghosts, infestors etc). Think this will get scrapped.
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vs T
- Banshees (self explanatory)
- Ghost (emp, need i say more?)
- Medvacs (situational, might be good it if you have a lot of injured zealots but other than that its - not really worth it, zealots get bursted down too fast in fights)
- Ravens (if you ever see one in PvT other than 1-1-1 get this for PDD to laugh at marauders and vikings)
- Tanks vs 1-1-1
vs Z
Infestors (storm + fungal = lol)
Viper maybe good to ambush broodlords/swarm hosts with reverse dark swarm / general ranged unit disruption but zerg armies tend to form concaves really on creep and if you are fighting on a choke you are most likely going to crush them anyway.
vs P
Oracle if your opponent went stargate you can save yourself the 150/150 to build it.
Maybe copy a templar before he morphs them into archons to get a free storm.
Note: I'm not even counting workers because you would lose nothing from say morphing an scv, building a CC as your 3rd base and suddenly you have their whole tech tree available. That is near impossible to balance imho.
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I can think of replicating a ghost to EMP his ghosts (except ghosts don't clump up as protoss units do, so it will probably be pointless)
Replicating banshee/DT will be fun.
Replicate Viper, if zerg snipes your observers too fast
Vs 1/1/1 replicate ALL THE THINGS, because protoss units are too shitty to defend it
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On October 25 2011 00:49 TrueRedemption wrote:
They said you can replicate a worker currently, but if it becomes a problem they'll fix it.
Replicating your own units seems like a more interesting concept personally, you can adjust your own composition just prior to an engagement. Replicating any of opponents units seems a tad counter intuitive personally. Essentially by replicating one of their units you're simply saying I'm going to do what you are doing, but better. If a terran is going tanks TvP they already are playing the positional game, why do you want to replicate a tank to try and play their game back at them, especially considering you paid more for yours? Obviously the replicant would be quite useful for stopping tech based timing plays such as the 1-1-1, but in the current state of the game there are very few units ZvP and TvP which would justify replication. You aren't going to get a siege tank to replicate if your opponent is going bio, yet bio is what it would be most useful against.
I am unsure of the cost of a tempest, but currently the most intriguing part of this unit to me would be the ability for protoss to raise their food cap. Why not replicate a 300/200 6 food colossus, you're only paying 200/200 4 food? If you're going for a timing attack the replicant will likely have a faster build time, and you can save the 200/200 you would've put into thermal lance and instead attack with one 6 range colossus and three 9 range replicants. Alternatively for every replicated colossus in the death ball you can throw in an additional stalker, making your 200/200 that much more powerful. Its only a tiny advantage compared to standard, but considering what the other races were getting protoss are going to need all the help they can get.
I think stopping the 1-1-1 is one of the biggest factors this unit has. Replicating a medivac to heal (properly heal beyond shield regeneration, I mean) will probably also be popular, as well as ghosts/infestors and SCVs, primarily to repair the mechanical much more than trying to follow the Terran tech tree.
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On October 25 2011 00:45 DoomsVille wrote:
Honestly, I don't see the point of replicating your own units. The only one I can see that is worthwhile is the immortal (assuming the replicator build time is significantly less than the immortal build time).
Maybe replicating voids against zerg in the late game (after they transition to broods) to get a quick transition to air?
I feel like this unit is going to be scrapped at some point.
The replicant makes tech switches much easier. Besides the obvious fact that you can "make" units of from other tech trees from the robo it will also has the tech you might not have researched yet. Replicate a high templar and you get storm + 200 energy on it, replicate a warp prism and it has speed etc. Long term however (because of its high resource and supply cost) you would be better getting its respective production building, researching its tech etc.
Copying enemy units could (will?) get removed completely and it would still fill an important and very unique function.
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On October 25 2011 00:53 Yaotzin wrote:
The only reliable uses seem to be screwing up timing attacks and stealing useful casters (ghosts, infestors etc). Think this will get scrapped.
The Replicant is a very cheese/gimmicky unit. It can't be useful for standard play, since it either will simply be overpowered (ie building replicants is more efficient than getting the unit normally somehow) or under powered (ie building replicants is less efficient than getting the unit normally somehow). There really isn't an in between.
It is an awful idea for a unit. The Oracle is the same. One base timings that phase out bunkers/spines/pool/barracks/ect in combination with a heavy gate push will also be imbalanced. And its usefulness in standard play will be very limited because it has only 100hp and can't do anything to stop units from protecting mineral lines (especially since the mineral fields have only 75 hp, just post 8 Marines in your mineral line and even if you don't shoot down the Oracle, the mining time lost will be less than 2 seconds with 8 Marines).
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On October 25 2011 00:42 Yaotzin wrote:Saddening  Replicating a DT if you open robo and they DT rush would be pretty hilarious.
lmfao build order win x2. I hard-counter the dt tech and they have no obs ^^
The ability to replicate Terran units is pretty sweet  How far from the unit do I have to be to replicate it? Can I get within range of a sieged siege tank to replicate it?
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On October 25 2011 00:51 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:49 TrueRedemption wrote:
Why not replicate a 300/200 6 food colossus, you're only paying 200/200 4 food? I'm getting sick of telling people that you can't replicate massive unit. Please educate yourselves regarding the new units before posting ideas. Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:51 Eppa! wrote:
With the Gas and pop limit it feels like the only thing worth using it on is SCV (for orbitals) Voidrays/immortals (for tech switches on the fly) and situationly casters. I love this idea. I'm not sure it is viable, but the idea that you could tech switch from an Immortal to a Void Ray (who both cost around 200-200 anyway) is awesome.
I mean the Idea is to have the option of doing it so Zerg has to prepare for both.
I hate this units idea beyond belief. Replace it with a stronger macro mechanic, mule and inject are so much better than chrono. Larvae lets you build drones then build a bunch of units without putting you down because of the production of hatches. Mules gives extra income for free.
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On October 25 2011 00:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:42 Yaotzin wrote:Saddening Replicating a DT if you open robo and they DT rush would be pretty hilarious. lmfao build order win x2. I hard-counter the dt tech and they have no obs ^^ The ability to replicate Terran units is pretty sweet How far from the unit do I have to be to replicate it? Can I get within range of a sieged siege tank to replicate it?
Range is unlimited, you just need vision of the unit to replicate it.
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On October 25 2011 00:58 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:53 Yaotzin wrote:
The only reliable uses seem to be screwing up timing attacks and stealing useful casters (ghosts, infestors etc). Think this will get scrapped. The Replicant is a very cheese/gimmicky unit. It can't be useful for standard play, since it either will simply be overpowered (ie build replicators is more efficient than getting the unit normally somehow) or under powered (ie building replicators is less efficient than getting the unit normally somehow). There really isn't an in between.
Yes I don't really like it. It has no reliable niche. Well I guess it could develop one - say replicating infestors - but it will be such a small niche, and one consisting of stealing another race's unit...don't like.
It is an awful idea for a unit. The Oracle is the same. One base timings that phase out bunkers/spines/pool/barracks/ect in combination with a heavy gate push will also be imbalanced. And its usefulness in standard play will be very limited because it has only 100hp and can't do anything to stop units from protecting mineral lines.
The only way a one base timing with stargate+oracle+warpgates will work, is if the Zerg is laughing so hard he forgets to crush you.
Oracle will be awesome.
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This unit feels so indescribable wrong...
Yes, you could "mass" some of your own units for emergency (Immortals mostly I'd say, maybe VR's, everything else is either not worth the costs or massive) but the main purpose seems to be to replicate "the shit that's consistantly killing you" (Ghosts, Tanks in 1-1-1). And that's just another way of saying "we have no idea to fix your problems, but here's a cutesy little unit that can copy things so you'll have access to the same arsenal".
SCV's could be nice though for Orbital + Mules or Bunkers maybe (if you can put in Stalkers/Immortals - although that thought sadens me...). Also Medivacs, Raven, Ghosts & Infestors - but thinking about playing Proran or Prozerg is just "terrible, terrible damage"
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On October 25 2011 00:51 VTPerfect wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 00:42 DoomsVille wrote:On October 24 2011 23:58 VTPerfect wrote:
To be perfectly honest I think the best use of this unit is in conjunction with some sort of 2 base warp prism harass. the harass hopefully does some damage but the important part is gaining vision of your terran opponents SCV, using the Replicator to morph into an SCV and then gain access to quasi fixes to the real problems with Protoss IE producing ghosts to emp their ghosts, medivacs cuz your units can't heal, vikings cause you don't have an Air to Air armor bonus unit etc etc etc.
I still think this is awful cause at this point your not playing Protoss your plating Proran and Prozerg and i didnt pick Protoss to use Ran and Zerg units but its pretty much ur best bet. This will never work. You have to go down the protoss and terran tech trees at once. Investment in production/tech is going to put you far behind in army. Maybe in a very late game scenario I can see it working... but at that point you might as well replicate the ghosts. thats not true, terran tech is the fastest cheapest thing in the world scv - cc - rax - tech lab + ghost academy at same time - ghost. Plus since ghost academy is a mere 50 gas and ghost is 100 gas it won't interfere too badly with colossus tech. Though i've heard that ghost emp got a major nerf in HotS which might in itself solve at least one problem, but you also need to figure that a huge disadvantage protoss has in PvT lategame is terran get to sac 40 of their 75 or so workers and replace them with orbital muling and have more supply in army. This would allow Protoss to do the same and perhaps it wont make sense early/mid game you'de be stupid not to do it late game.
Yea I agree with that. It would be useful for orbitals as well. But the thousand some odd resources that go into producing ghosts for the purposes of EMPing seems pointless when you can just use that first replicator to replicate a ghost... Anyways, I guess it doesn't matter since blizzard seems to be determined to fix the ghost/emp anyways.
I think eppa! has got it though. It's only useful for scvs (orbitals), quick tech switches and spellcasters.
Honestly, I don't see how this unit doesn't get scrapped. Do you know how scared I would be (as a zerg) to have my infestors replicated? Fungal destroys zerg (since we get outranged by everything). I would probably never make infestors in ZvP unless I'm sure my opponent doesn't have a robo lol
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Replicator are scary in PvT because they will prevent terran from getting Raven almost entierly.
PDD on protoss side is ten time more effective than in terran side.
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On October 25 2011 00:37 Laurens wrote:
Can you replicate your own units?
Can you replicate a replication?
If so, protoss will never have to pay more than 200/200 for a unit. You just make 1 and then start making replicators ...
Edit: this would make Archons, colossi and tempests cheaper. It would make void rays 50 minerals cheaper, but 50 gas more expensive so you probably wouldn't do that.
lol you can't replicate massive type units.
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On October 25 2011 01:01 Yaotzin wrote:
The only way a one base timing with stargate+oracle+warpgates will work, is if the Zerg is laughing so hard he forgets to crush you.
Oracle will be awesome.
Imagine this. I am one basing and I move out. Before you spot my units and can allocate larva toward unit production to stop me I send a Oracle in your base and phase out your spawning Pool and Roach Warren. No Zerglings, Spines, Queens or Roaches for you. When I reach your base I FF your ramp from the main to the natural to cut reinforcements, and if you happen to have some Spine Crawlers already up, I phase them out with another Oracle. All the while I am warping in reinforcements.
It would be incredibly powerful vs any Zerg player who plays reactively, since I am taking away your ability to react. This all depends on the timings. I imagine based on the cost of the Oracle, that you could get two out quicker than you could get two Void Rays out. So imagine a Gate 3-4 push currently that involves Void Rays, but this time it has Oracles. Would be much, much stronger.
Also I could send an Oracle in with Void Rays/Phoenixes from a proxy Stargate location and phase out your Spawning pool and Evolution chamber. No reactive Queens or Spore Crawlers for you. GG.
The Oracle and Replicant are super cheesy units that won't be useful in standard play since Replicants will always be more inefficient than normally producing units except for Replicating units like a Siege Tank that doesn't have Siege or an early Banshee (and both of these instances are cheesy), and Oracles can be stopped simply by placing a few units in your mineral line. Even if they don't kill the Oracle, the mineral shields will go so fast that you'll lose no more than a few seconds of mining time and it will take forever for the Oracle to pay for itself.
However, they will more than make up for the cheese ability lost when Protoss loses the ability to warp in from a low ground pylon on to the high ground.
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On October 25 2011 00:37 Laurens wrote:
Can you replicate your own units?
Can you replicate a replication?
If so, protoss will never have to pay more than 200/200 for a unit. You just make 1 and then start making replicators ...
Edit: this would make Archons, colossi and tempests cheaper. It would make void rays 50 minerals cheaper, but 50 gas more expensive so you probably wouldn't do that.
you guys read nothing
NO MASSIV UNITS
so its always more expensive to build a replicator !
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If you were to replicate a queen, would you be able to spread creap on your opponents creep, therefore giving you vision?
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On October 25 2011 00:42 Yaotzin wrote:Saddening Replicating a DT if you open robo and they DT rush would be pretty hilarious.
Yeah was thinking the same. He rush you with DTs, you copy it and counterattack with DTs because opponent went into DTs and have no robo :D
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EPT
