On October 25 2011 01:36 Panzamelano wrote: so i guess that if i get contained i just have to make a robo and a warp prism to even get out... OH WAIT by the time it is done im already so far behind im dead -_-
No, this only affects low to high, not high to low. You will not be limited that way, unless you are a escaping to high ground and you have a spotter. Wait, that never happens. Stop complaining, you are only losing cheese.
On October 25 2011 01:36 Panzamelano wrote: so i guess that if i get contained i just have to make a robo and a warp prism to even get out... OH WAIT by the time it is done im already so far behind im dead -_-
No, this only affects low to high, not high to low. You will not be limited that way, unless you are a escaping to high ground and you have a spotter. Wait, that never happens. Stop complaining, you are only losing cheese.
Nope, look at the second image in the OP, it also affects High > Low, not just Low > High.
On October 25 2011 01:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, since we're throwing around pointless nerfs here, can we make it so Supply Depots can no longer be lowered? It's really not that gamebreaking after all.
Why not? And how about you can't build a Pool before an Overlord too. And you can't build a factory before a second Command Center.
I think every game should play out like Clockwork until 15 minutes into the game, only then can we vary our play. Better yet, let's just start out with 40 food worth of Probes, a few pylons, two Nexus, a Gateway and Cyber, let's just completely take away the early game anyway, it didn't add any strategy anyway.
I agree with this change. 3 gate void all ins and pylon on the low ground 4 gates are extremely strong and leads to a guessing game early on because protoss has the highest number of viable 1 base all ins in my opinion. This keeps the guessing low and gives the warp prism more use if a toss player wants to 1 base or 2 base all in instead of just making a hidden pylon and hoping that your opponent doesn't scout it.
On October 25 2011 00:13 Avril_Lavigne wrote: finallly a sensible change that makes absolute fucking sense. so many times has a pylon warped into my base form the low ground it's so fucking stupid that protoss can do that and they call it "strategy" and "hard to do" lol all theydid was get an observer and warp in. No more voidray all ins and having to defend my main and natural at he same time phew. Also those who say that it doesn't punish greedy builds, well it's about damn time protoss is forced to play macro. anyway, if anything they really should change the radius back
They hid a pylon with no assurance that you wouldn't just see it, wait until some expensive stuff warps in and laugh while your tanks blast it all and then roll over the pylon since both players know it failed. Yet this^ is probably right still as I can imagine the feeling when dt is warped in all-in early. Very underhanded.
On October 25 2011 01:49 Sovern wrote: protoss has the highest number of viable 1 base all ins in my opinion.
Where did you get this from? Terran can access far more of its tech tree on one base than Protoss can and can stay on one base longer economically since they can float their CC to their natural when their main is mined out. Finally Terran has so many upgrades compared to Protoss, and these can dramatically change how their all-ins work (Cloak, Blue Flame, Stim, Siege Mode to mention a few). Terran thus has far more 1 base all-ins.
Think about all the 1-1-1 variations alone (Marine Tank Medivac, Marine Tank Banshee, Marauder Hellion Banshee, Banshee Raven Viking Marine, Marine Tank Raven Banshee with Cloak...), then add in the several variations of proxy 2 rax, Thor all-ins, and all the variations of 3 rax and 3 rax Marine/scv all-ins...
Protoss has what? Proxy 2 Gate, Cannon Rush, 10 Gate 3/4 Gate, 12/13 Gate 4/5 Gate, Colossus all-in, Immortal all-in, Void Ray all-in, DT all-in, and 3 Gate Blink all-in. That is it, Protoss has less viable one base all-ins than Terran has 1-1-1 builds alone! And of course Terran has so many other viable one base builds as mentioned. And when I scout the 1-1-1 and still need to scout the units to see what is coming, if you scout a DT Shrine/Stargate/Robo Bay you know what is coming immediately.
On October 25 2011 01:51 HypernovA wrote: Thank god for this change. No more stupid 3 gate void all in. Protoss has way too many 1 base all ins anyways.
On October 25 2011 01:49 Sovern wrote: I agree with this change. 3 gate void all ins and pylon on the low ground 4 gates are extremely strong and leads to a guessing game early on because protoss has the highest number of viable 1 base all ins in my opinion. This keeps the guessing low and gives the warp prism more use if a toss player wants to 1 base or 2 base all in instead of just making a hidden pylon and hoping that your opponent doesn't scout it.
You both should not even be allowed to comment on balance.....Terran players thinking that Protoss is the race that keeps the early game a guessing game, and that Protoss has the highest number of One-base all-ins.
Excellent change in my opinion. Biggest problem with the protoss has always been that warp gate is way too strong, which forces everything else about the protoss to be weak to compensate. Hopefully now we can get some actual buffs so P players don't have to completely rely on warpgate/sentry/colossus just to be competitive.
On October 25 2011 01:49 Sovern wrote: I agree with this change. 3 gate void all ins and pylon on the low ground 4 gates are extremely strong and leads to a guessing game early on because protoss has the highest number of viable 1 base all ins in my opinion. This keeps the guessing low and gives the warp prism more use if a toss player wants to 1 base or 2 base all in instead of just making a hidden pylon and hoping that your opponent doesn't scout it.
Nope. You can scout gas+saved chrono's and have a good idea of what protoss is planning from the start. If you're really unsure build a bunker and save a scan.
A hidden pylon in your base would kill you regardless of this change. A low to high is part of a calculated attack. One is luck based, the other isn't. Why are they removing the ability for pylons on the low ground to power high ground, is it because of cannon rushes? If it is that's just dumb, because they put the arcshield mechanic in for a good reason, just have good pylon placement->arcshield, kill probe, collect win!
On October 25 2011 01:51 HypernovA wrote: Thank god for this change. No more stupid 3 gate void all in. Protoss has way too many 1 base all ins anyways.
On October 25 2011 01:49 Sovern wrote: I agree with this change. 3 gate void all ins and pylon on the low ground 4 gates are extremely strong and leads to a guessing game early on because protoss has the highest number of viable 1 base all ins in my opinion. This keeps the guessing low and gives the warp prism more use if a toss player wants to 1 base or 2 base all in instead of just making a hidden pylon and hoping that your opponent doesn't scout it.
You both should not even be allowed to comment on balance.....Terran players thinking that Protoss is the race that keeps the early game a guessing game, and that Protoss has the highest number of One-base all-ins.
Well, they are correct in liking the change, since they allow a Terran not to scout at all, not to prepare for anything, and still defend every Protoss 1 base all-in after expanding. So it is a buff to terrible Terran players, there's plenty of reason for them to like it.
On October 25 2011 01:56 Spawkuring wrote: Excellent change in my opinion. Biggest problem with the protoss has always been that warp gate is way too strong, which forces everything else about the protoss to be weak to compensate. Hopefully now we can get some actual buffs so P players don't have to completely rely on warpgate/sentry/colossus just to be competitive.
wishful thinking if you think this one change is going to make blizz take a look at stalker/zealots... gateway units will still suck and you'll just have one less harass option.
On October 25 2011 02:01 Toadvine wrote: Well, they are correct in liking the change, since they allow a Terran not to scout at all, not to prepare for anything, and still defend every Protoss 1 base all-in after expanding. So it is a buff to terrible Terran players, there's plenty of reason for them to like it.
The best part about Void Ray all-ins that depend on proxy pylons is that they can be easily spotted from the main base. It isn't like it is something that is unstoppable.
Get vision of your base, and you'll never die to one.
On October 25 2011 01:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, since we're throwing around pointless nerfs here, can we make it so Supply Depots can no longer be lowered? It's really not that gamebreaking after all.
Why not? And how about you can't build a Pool before an Overlord too. And you can't build a factory before a second Command Center.
I think every game should play out like Clockwork until 15 minutes into the game, only then can we vary our play. Better yet, let's just start out with 40 food worth of Probes, a few pylons, two Nexus, a Gateway and Cyber, let's just completely take away the early game anyway, it didn't add any strategy anyway.
This. The more options you have (and face!) the better!
On October 25 2011 01:14 EvrSteady wrote: Is there anything protoss don't whine about!
Is there anything Zerg don't whine about! Is there anything Terran - is- is there- ok. But still, it comes from all sides. People generally feel Terran has no excuse but they still whine at times. It is a prevalent theme in politics, sports, esports, anywhere people take sides- the monster we call bias. You have one too- it came with your belly button. ;-). Of course whining can be warranted, so feel free to do so. Even if whining about whining.
I dunno. A lot of you guys seem for it. I really don't like blizzards direction with many of their changes. Sure, the game will be statistically "balanced". I trust that blizzard will push the game go 50/50 for each match up, but I worry that their changes are just going to make the game boring as fuck to play / watch.
I get board of tic-tac-toe after like 4 games, I get bored of chess after 100 games, but after 2000+ games, I always go back to BW. SC2 can be balanced and all, but I feel like theyre taking the fun out of the game with all these small stupid changes.
Cheese is part of the game. Cheese is fun. Stop forcing it out of the game and let the players learn how to stop it.
On October 24 2011 23:42 Raven068 wrote: I wonder if this affects the Warp Prism as well.
No. Warp prison is not on a low ground. Its flys in the air.
EPT
