EPTPlus, if the unranked ladder's matchmaking works by MMR yet doesn't affect MMR then you'll just keep getting matched up against people you can't beat if you're losing.
Multiple 1v1 ranks and the future of the ladder - Page 5
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
Plus, if the unranked ladder's matchmaking works by MMR yet doesn't affect MMR then you'll just keep getting matched up against people you can't beat if you're losing. | ||
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:30 Excalibur_Z wrote: Yes, that's exactly right. There's already incentive in the form of bonus pool and portraits and decals. Those are supposed to encourage you to play. If you lose with an offrace, eventually you'll get to a point where you'll start winning with that offrace. You don't need an unranked ladder or race-specific MMR to do that. War3 never used different ratings for your race and neither did BW. There's no real reason to introduce that into SC2. Players are players and it's unnecessary to add a short-term solution like different MMRs for different races when fundamental strategies and mechanics are what dictate actual skill. Can you tell me any one way that having ranks assigned to individual races rather than your 1v1 as a whole hurts the game in any way? Just because "it didn't use to have that" isn't a very good reason, we could say that the ladder system is unnecessary and we should just go back to using the BW system of finding games. | ||
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Panzamelano
Colombia248 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:30 Excalibur_Z wrote: Yes, that's exactly right. There's already incentive in the form of bonus pool and portraits and decals. Those are supposed to encourage you to play. If you lose with an offrace, eventually you'll get to a point where you'll start winning with that offrace. You don't need an unranked ladder or race-specific MMR to do that. War3 never used different ratings for your race and neither did BW. There's no real reason to introduce that into SC2. Players are players and it's unnecessary to add a short-term solution like different MMRs for different races when fundamental strategies and mechanics are what dictate actual skill. Okay for people who keep bringing up BW to this... remember that on bw (since iccup times because bnet was mostly customs not real ladder) you could make all the accounts you wanted for free... so you didnt need an extra rank for your offrace... no you simply made a new account and used it for the offrace... or even more since bw ladder was made MANUALLY you just choose a new race and asked for lower lvl and played... BW did have multiple ratings. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:30 Excalibur_Z wrote: Yes, that's exactly right. There's already incentive in the form of bonus pool and portraits and decals. Those are supposed to encourage you to play. If you lose with an offrace, eventually you'll get to a point where you'll start winning with that offrace. You don't need an unranked ladder or race-specific MMR to do that. War3 never used different ratings for your race and neither did BW. There's no real reason to introduce that into SC2. Players are players and it's unnecessary to add a short-term solution like different MMRs for different races when fundamental strategies and mechanics are what dictate actual skill. I can't speak to WC3, but a lot of people on BW make separate accounts for offracing. | ||
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
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pt
United States813 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:36 Harbinger631 wrote: I think it's sad how some people care about something like an MMR like it's a part of their identity. It's just a number. I think you mean points. :D MMR determines who you play. | ||
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xOff
United States247 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:13 Snaphoo wrote: Why I Want Unranked Ladder: - So I can try new builds or strategies against people of my own level without being punished with demotion in the early stages of trying to get a grasp on play. - A way to train when I'm a bit rusty that's less random than Custom (A silver Zerg or a Masters Protoss? Don't know til you queue one up!). I want an unranked ladder so that I can play against people of my skill level. Basically I would play against people with my MMR, but it wouldn't go up or down with losses or wins. If I'm winning lots of unranked games, I'll go back to ranked ladder because I know I'm ready. - You may not like it, but look at the declining activity among vast numbers of players who still like the game or play team games, but stay far away from 1v1. It would revitalize ladder as people could see where they stand on the unranked ladder and then start playing ranked ladder again. - It would make the game more accessible to noobs/people embarrassed of losing or afraid of being demoted if they haven't played for awhile or are on a cold streak. - Analogy: There are very good people in League of Legends. They play new champions (similar to offracing) in unranked games, often, and then when they feel comfortable go back into Ranked games with those chars. - REBUTTAL: It would not destroy MMR. People would keep playing on ladder just like always, it's just that there would be a shadow ladder alongside it. And that shows perfectly why it would destroy the MMR system... If I'm winning lots of unranked games, I'll go back to ranked ladder because I know I'm ready. If you're winning alot of games then you've raised your MMR and if you would then go back to the ranked games you would be of a higher skill level than your opponent. Say for example you're in gold league you then train for a couple weeks in unranked games and get to the approximate skill of a platinum player. You then go back to ranked and demolish the golds cause you're of the skill of a platinum player. That's unfair and stupid to the gold players who want to just play players of their own skill level in ranked games. Edit: However I do agree about separate races having seperate MMR's and ranks. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
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Lolzre
Australia27 Posts
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
This is something everyone foresaw except for blizzard. If they had released actual details of what the ladder would be instead of just doing it and hoping for the best, maybe we'd be in a better position. | ||
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:39 xOff wrote: And that shows perfectly why it would destroy the MMR system... If you're winning alot of games then you've raised your MMR and if you would then go back to the ranked games you would be of a higher skill level than your opponent. Say for example you're in gold league you then train for a couple weeks in unranked games and get to the approximate skill of a platinum player. You then go back to ranked and demolish the golds cause you're of the skill of a platinum player. That's unfair and stupid to the gold players who want to just play players of their own skill level in ranked games. So basically you're saying an unranked ladder would ruin the MMR because people might improve? People improve by laddering too you know. | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
I have no problem with high ranked players making an alternative character for offracing or messing around, but I'd at least like to know about it. The premise of SC2's matchmaking matching you with players of your own skill level and the experience of being beaten by a smurf don't go well together. If said masters player played on an alt account and absolutely picked me apart with superior micro - as long as I can see that this wasn't an ordinary platinum player I would be fine with it. So basically you're saying an unranked ladder would ruin the MMR because people might improve? People improve by laddering too you know. Difference being that the ladder would constantly update your ranking and MMR. Practicing on an unranked ladder for a while could result in you suddenly being 1 "league" better than you used to be when you last player ranked ladder. The matchmaking is a bit slow in making this adjustment, so you'd be left stomping now-inferior players for a while. If you'd have just practiced on ranked ladder instead, your MMR would already have adjusted to your new skill level gradually, and this problem wouldn't present itself. | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
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taintmachine
United States431 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:36 Rostam wrote: I can't speak to WC3, but a lot of people on BW make separate accounts for offracing. people did the same (made new, free accts) in wc3 to offrace. in addition, each account profile gave you a win/loss % for each race, including random. | ||
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pt
United States813 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:43 DarQraven wrote: I'd be in favor of 3 separate ladders (why would random need one, btw? It's not like you'll be playing any races that the other three ladders wouldn't cover...) IF and only if you could see a person's other characters from his profile. I have no problem with high ranked players making an alternative character for offracing or messing around, but I'd at least like to know about it. The premise of SC2's matchmaking matching you with players of your own skill level and the experience of being beaten by a smurf don't go well together. If said masters player played on an alt account and absolutely picked me apart with superior micro - as long as I can see that this wasn't an ordinary platinum player I would be fine with it. Pretty sure what you can see in peoples' profiles is the thing that is scaring them. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:39 Lolzre wrote: This is not the reason for 1v1 ladder you play 1v1 as a form of offical competition and if you dont like that play 1v1 custom thats what its there for do that untill you improve or just play 2v2 3v3 4v4 if you want to have fun and offrace Why can't you officially compete with different races separately? You don't see the down points of having to tank your officially competitive rating just to play a different race? You just said that you can do this in 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4. These are the same "officially competitive" venues except you can have multiples due to teams. | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On October 13 2011 07:39 BushidoSnipr wrote: Honestly, I think the reason the player base is dwindling cuz the game makes you feel so shitty when you lose. BW it was hard as hell to get from D to C and a loss didnt mean as much. In sc2-Blizzard's horrible ladder- one loss can make or break your league standing. Another factor could also be the mass marketing of sc2, many people bought it cuz there was a whole bunch of commercials and hype etc, and they turned out to not be fit for an RTS kinda game. This whole multiple acc thing would just screw people up honestly One for "fun"-as in what? stupid builds? or is "fun" just a word for "excuse to play badly" Everyone knows the ladder will turn into-OH HELL NO EVEN THOUGH I LOST I HAVE A GM ACC-It'll just make BM even worse....and Blizzard doesn't care about BM...lol I feel the exact opposite. Blizzard seems to be doing everything they can to avoid people even realizing their own skill level so that they don't get down when they lose too often. Of course it was hard as hell to get from a D to a C, and it felt great when you did, but lose a game or 2 in a row (worse yet go on a 5-10 game losing streak) and you're right back in D where you started. People aren't demoted or promoted in sc2 nearly as fast as they were in bw and it's so they don't quit from the difficulty. | ||
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xOff
United States247 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:42 ColdLava wrote: So basically you're saying an unranked ladder would ruin the MMR because people might improve? People improve by laddering too you know. No it ruins MMR when people improve in a seperate ladder and then go back to the ladder. Example: I'm in diamond, I go to the korean server and train with MVP for a month and come back. I now am masters/grandmasters level. I'm still diamond on my original account and it says my MMR is the same. So the players i would be getting matched up with are diamond while i'm now a much better player. Edit: DarQraven summed my thoughts up nicely aswell  | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
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