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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc. This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up. The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10301 Posts
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On August 29 2011 22:04 rareh wrote: Its indeed really sad when people train so hard and don't get their prize money as a reward. Btw Intel Extreme Masters also has a very bad reputation of not paying out the money. not really, it only takes them quite long | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season. New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc. This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up. The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket. I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. | ||
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flowSthead
1065 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:30 Otolia wrote: I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"? Assuming you are right, it doesn't mean that the issue should not be addressed. Has it been addressed? Has ESWC gone and talked to all of the teams that their previous owners owed money to? Have they attempted to explain what new ownership means? Maybe they do not legally owe anyone money, but it doesn't mean they can just create a tournament and teams will be willing to trust them automatically. Whether it is logical or not, some people feel burned by the actions of the ESWC (under previous owners) and that isn't going to go away just by someone saying "well we weren't those guys, so it's different now". | ||
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Finrod1
Germany3997 Posts
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:30 Otolia wrote: I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. Well the money would have went mostly to the players and I would think they'd want their 150k. I know right, such greedy progamers. Anyways, you can declare bankruptcy then reopen without owing money? Really? I'm sure it's true because laws about these stuff tend to be really stupid.. but it just seems pretty ridiculous. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On August 31 2011 02:44 flowSthead wrote: Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"? Assuming you are right, it doesn't mean that the issue should not be addressed. Has it been addressed? Has ESWC gone and talked to all of the teams that their previous owners owed money to? Have they attempted to explain what new ownership means? Maybe they do not legally owe anyone money, but it doesn't mean they can just create a tournament and teams will be willing to trust them automatically. Whether it is logical or not, some people feel burned by the actions of the ESWC (under previous owners) and that isn't going to go away just by someone saying "well we weren't those guys, so it's different now". Except, it is different. ESCW '10 went without any issues whatsoever. It is borderline defamation, at the very least political maneuvering what the teams are doing. You can clearly see from this thread how short the reading comprehension of the masses falls. To spin it the other way, that's probably what this boycott is intended to do. Public damage. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:02 fraktoasters wrote: Well the money would have went mostly to the players and I would think they'd want their 150k. I know right, such greedy progamers. Anyways, you can declare bankruptcy then reopen without owing money? Really? I'm sure it's true because laws about these stuff tend to be really stupid.. but it just seems pretty ridiculous. No it is not, because it is not the same people. You won't inherit the original owner's debt, when you buy his shop. Everything else would be ridiculous. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:30 Otolia wrote: I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. This is not a maneuver in a court of law, a set of teams decide to not participate with a brand that shafted them, hugely, once before. Why is it wrong in your eyes? If a local restaurant treated me poorly, I won't go back again, even if they'd have a "under new management" sign. There's plenty of tournaments to participate in. ESWC is the one with the poor track record. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:11 Primadog wrote: This is not a maneuver in a court of law, a set of teams decide to not participate with a brand that shafted them, hugely, once before. Why is it wrong in your eyes? It's because of the misleading use of the entry fee argument. Which apparently worked here. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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azarat
Australia155 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:08 rotegirte wrote: No it is not, because it is not the same people. You won't inherit the original owner's debt, when you buy his shop. Everything else would be ridiculous. Would depend on the type of organization ESWC had before and whether it actually filed for bankruptcy, but in the case of straightforward acquisitions, you're straight out wrong. If you buy a company through shares, you buy the assets and the liabilities together. Again, its complicated and I'm not suggesting that this is the case with ESWC, but suffice to say that reopening under the same brand with a different management does not automatically mean that all their previous obligations have been resolved. | ||
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Apom
France655 Posts
On August 31 2011 02:44 flowSthead wrote: More like an ill-advised literal translation. It doesn't come off as rude in French (though not very mannered either). Not that I agree with the core of the argument, but I doubt the douchebaggery was intended.Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"? | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv www.onemoregame.tv | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:30 Otolia wrote: I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. Honey, I don't recall citing any laws. If you purchase a company, you are inheriting the brand. As far as I am aware, even here in the US, you are not indebted to pay passed dues. However, does that mean your customers, or in this case your players, are simply going to forget about what they are owed? These teams pay thousands of dollars to travel to these events and not getting their prize money completely blanks the legitimacy of the tournament. I understand it is a different brand, and different owners, but in the end they are representing the same tournament. Some people are ruining eSports, and it's certainly not the players. | ||
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kinger256
Canada21 Posts
For example, WCG Canada is not sending a SC2 representative this year to the event, considering Canada has arguably the top foreigner right now (Huk), this is disappointing to me and many other fans. However, this isn't because WCG didn't try, it's because of certain circumstances outside their power did not work (sponsors in this case), which I assume ESWC is in the same situation with Sweden. If WCG came with a process similar to ESWC, me and many other Canadians would be ecstatic at the possibility of Huk going to WCG and representing Canada. I'm also pretty sure EG wouldn't mind the fee to send him to a top tier event, where he wouldn't have gone other wise. The $200 fee for each player does seem a little to much when you have to cover your own travel as well, but isn't ratio of prize pool and entrance fee of MLG similar to that of this ESWC event? Even then I feel these teams boycotting are about something more then just the money from previous events. Where were the boycotts when CPL held a SC2 event in China? Don't they owe just as much money? Seems to me like teams are just trying to flex muscles by boycotting events. The money owed by ESWC is very unfortunate but all this boycotting does is hurt esports. If the entry money was really a problem then the teams should have just not entered, but they went on with a boycott which could possibly hurt CS, from what I've heard is slowly dying, and kill CS:S outright (isn't this the last major CS:S event?). On September 01 2011 09:04 Grettin wrote: About this, tune in for Live on 3 RIGHT NOW to hear more or check the VoD later on. http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv www.onemoregame.tv I also find it funny that sirscoots said his players could go to other events instead like blizzcon, but none of his players qualified for it. Also find it unfair to players of qualified countries of these boycotted teams, that qualified. They get a free trip to France, yet they are unable to go due to this. | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On September 02 2011 22:47 Bumblebee wrote: I can say that after thorough consideration and exploring the opinions of other teams in e-Sports we, Team Liquid, have decided not to participate in the tournament either. We find tournament and the prizemoney interesting, however the $200.00/player is an issue for us. Makes sense. If i may ask, was this the only reason you decided to not to participate or did the history of the organisation/league also "bother" you and did it affect to your decisions at all? Great to see Liquid keeping people updated. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:30 Otolia wrote: I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ... Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit. As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. This isn't a way to run an event. | ||
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