Natus Vincere in the person of all its players and gaming squads may boycott ESWC 2011. The decision was driven by new ESWC rules according to which each team or player can now book a slot in the Grand Final for $200 per player or $1000 per team. Our organization does not encourage such decision and will not participate in the tournament unless new rule is forfeited. The boycott was also supported by some of the world leading e-Sports teams such as fnatic, SK Gaming, mTw, Evil Geniuses и Mousesports.
Natus Vincere CEO Alexander «ZeroGravity» Kokhanovskiy had the following to say:
«We were surprized with the idea to implement a registration fee instead of holding national qualifiers. The decision itself contradicts with the concept of World Championship because anyone can now "buy" himself a slot in the Grand Final. If tournament organizers stay idle to what professional e-Sports teams demand, you will not see ESWC 2010 champions defending their title this year».
With this news & ESWCs reputation - will anyone come to play in this tournament? I mean, it's a lot of potential money to the winner but you really can't be sure when you get them.
I'm not sure ESWC has A GUY on TL. Since the change of owner it really hasn't been the same in France with ESWC. That's a shame it was my favourite event and the one that taught me about international ESPORT.
ESWC Is and always has been a joke. I participated in the ESWC's of the early 2000's with Counter Strike and they where always plagued with stupid idiotic rules (such things as flash bugging on maps which had bugged boxes) and blatantly rigged seeding so that teams sponsored by certain companies would have an easy route to the finals.
In my experience, they where always about the money. It was never about the games. Thats why CPL took over everything worth talking about in the CS scene back then.
On August 29 2011 22:00 TheSilverfox wrote: ESWC have a really bad reputation with not paying out their money.
Its indeed really sad when people train so hard and don't get their prize money as a reward. Btw Intel Extreme Masters also has a very bad reputation of not paying out the money.
On August 29 2011 22:01 malaan wrote: ESWC Is and always has been a joke. I participated in the ESWC's of the early 2000's with Counter Strike and they where always plagued with stupid idiotic rules (such things as flash bugging on maps which had bugged boxes) and blatantly rigged seeding so that teams sponsored by certain companies would have an easy route to the finals.
In my experience, they where always about the money. It was never about the games. Thats why CPL took over everything worth talking about in the CS scene back then.
I have no personal experience of ESWC, but this is what i have heard also.
Not really a surprise that big teams doesn't want to participate/are boycotting it. The rule that the teams are against, sounds really stupid to me also.
It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
On August 29 2011 22:16 busbarn wrote: It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
Your post made no sense at all.
On topic: Ridiculous. Who would come up with such an idea with a straigth face.
On August 29 2011 22:14 Shana wrote: Wait, so there will be no national qualifiers?
Yeah there will be 27 national qualifiers. I think the list of country with qualifier can be found on the eswc website.
On August 29 2011 22:16 busbarn wrote: It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
You can't apply for a place in the finals if you have a qualifier in your country. So if you have a qualifier in your country, that's the only way to qualify.
What the hell?? Seriously offering spots to those with the cash? Down right ridiculous and infuriating as jeopardizes the very legitimacy of the competition. Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
Well, it's really sad how ppl want to squeeze out money from anything they can think of. Very nice to see, how they shoot themselves in the face with their fuc*ing greed.
On August 29 2011 22:23 skeldark wrote: why do i have to think of d3 when i read this?
I always have to remember that TL is a completely different community from the one I came from, and that this ignorance to what ESWC was and is, is not all that far-fetched to see. With that said, it's already been cleared up in subsequent responses to the OP. It would be nice for the OP to update with accurate information rather than what it contains.
That said, I dream of a day when ESWC goes back to the original people, original mission:
PS:
On August 29 2011 22:01 malaan wrote: ESWC Is and always has been a joke. I participated in the ESWC's of the early 2000's with Counter Strike and they where always plagued with stupid idiotic rules (such things as flash bugging on maps which had bugged boxes) and blatantly rigged seeding so that teams sponsored by certain companies would have an easy route to the finals.
In my experience, they where always about the money. It was never about the games. Thats why CPL took over everything worth talking about in the CS scene back then.
On August 29 2011 22:16 busbarn wrote: It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
Your post made no sense at all.
On topic: Ridiculous. Who would come up with such an idea with a straigth face.
Money grubbing a-holes. Someone at ESWC has to be fired. Im sure there are hard working smart and intelligent people in positions which arent important enough to let them make decisions for the organization. Give them a go and see what a well run ESWC would really look like.
On August 29 2011 22:16 busbarn wrote: It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
You can't apply for a place in the finals if you have a qualifier in your country. So if you have a qualifier in your country, that's the only way to qualify.
Read this post instead of blindly answering the op, PLEASE !
Selling "slots" was a bad idea, but it was just reserved for countries without the infrastructure to organize a national qualifier. I don't think it cheapens too much the competition if someone buys his ticket (Korea TOP3 anyway).
This tournament may have the term "world" on it, but money already was a huge deal. All countries were offered three places, yet Poland will send just one player, Ukraine two (i think) and Germany 3. Does Germany has more talented players than Poland or Ukraine? Hard to argue, but they have more money, so they can pay 3 plane tickets. Most countries can hardly pay for one.
I'm not saying this is right or fair. It is not. but money already had a huge role in the organization of this tournament. This is just one more step on that direction. Instead of whining, i would prefer that those teams gave out money for one or two more slots for their excellent polish and Ukrainian players.
Im just gonna say something, ESWC 2010 actually paid out all the money within weeks of the final, they had obtained a bank guarantee for this. Although I can definitely see why the top teams would boycott over this ridiculous registration fee, I also think that it is wrong for you guys to splurt out rubbish like "not paying prize money". You may be thinking of ESWC 2008, when the company in charge of ESWC at the time went bankrupt (early 2009 iirc) before the money got paid out. The brand was then bought by Games-Solutions who, despite having a rocky history, delivered on their promises with ESWC 2010. Although I think this registration fee is ridiculous, you guys are making ridiculous, unfounded accusations over prize money :|
On August 29 2011 22:40 divito wrote: I always have to remember that TL is a completely different community from the one I came from, and that this ignorance to what ESWC was and is, is not all that far-fetched to see.
I dream of a day when ESWC goes back to the original people, original mission:
I don't think it ever will.
On topic, I hope people understand that it's not really a big deal of a news. ESWC is not asking people to pay to come to the finals. I guess big teams are boycotting ESWC mostly because of political reason (we know ESWC is not what it used to be).
I really want to here what people like EG or SK have to say on that. Because if it's just "people without can come to the finals by just paying $200" that's a bit dissapointing.
I'll boycott watching this tournament. What's wrong with those guys ? They should get inspired by all the good tourneys curently offered and take lessons out of them (TSL, GSL, MLG, NASL, IPL.......) Their way to do it is simply wrong and looks like money grabbing more than anything else.
Don't get why people are raging about this. This if for countries without qualifiers right? To have a qualifier I believe you have to buy a licence and then they normally pay for travel etc. This is for teams in countries that don't have a scene to buy a licence and send them so either way you are paying for a spot? Like say a team from my country wanted to go to ESWC they wouldn't be able to since we don't have anyone hosting qualifiers, this way they could still go out of their own money and aren't hindered just because our scene is small.
On August 29 2011 22:58 Diks wrote: I'll boycott watching this tournament. What's wrong with those guys ? They should get inspired by all the good tourneys curently offered and take lessons out of them (TSL, GSL, MLG, NASL, IPL.......) Their way to do it is simply wrong and looks like money grabbing more than anything else.
They are offering good players from "underdeveloped esport countries (lol)" to still participate if they have the means to do so. Why is this entirely bad?
IPL charges 20$ per participant for their qualifier, NASL charges 10$ iirc. ESWC is holding free qualifiers in these countries.
Myself I hope this is just some negotiation ploy by the teams to get the price lowered, I miss what the ESWC used to be.
Isn't what these teams doing to ESWC exactly the same thing the Korean teams did to NASL? I don't see what the big deal is with registration fees, it shouldn't be free to participate.
On August 29 2011 22:52 legaton wrote: Selling "slots" was a bad idea, but it was just reserved for countries without the infrastructure to organize a national qualifier. I don't think it cheapens too much the competition if someone buys his ticket (Korea TOP3 anyway).
I don't get this, it was only reserved for countries without "infrastructure to organize a national qualifier"?
There are a lot of prominent SC2 countries that don't have a national qualifiers that the eSport community definitely have the infrastructure to organize a such qualifier (Canada, Sweden etc.).
Or do you mean that ESWC does not have the connections/capacity/infrastructure for national qualifiers in these countries?
I don't really get what's the problem here, care to explain to me ?
There will be national qualification as usual, so nothing changing here...
"These applications are reserved exclusively to player teams who do not have a national ESWC qualification system set up in their country. "
And i think it's a great thing for those countries, because they do have a chance to participate even though their national organisation fails so much that they don't even have a qualification....
I dont really understand were is the problem here, maybe there could be abuse with nationalities like some swe team registering as some African team or something like that, but obviously ESWC could just reject them based on team rosters. They can't fake their ID....
There is something else which has to be explained.
Edit ------ Maybe it's about numbers ? How many teams allowed to register from the same country? Or players?
Edit2 -----------------
Sweden doesn't have qualifiers, that's explain a lot from were this is coming from since there like a lot of players/teams who could snatch the prize money.
But seriously Sweden ? How come they don't have it... really strange, anyone knows why ?
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NASL and IPL charge money for qualifiers (but give back if you make it to playoffs), MLG charges 70$ for every player outside pool play.
On August 29 2011 23:46 halvorg wrote: As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NASL and IPL charge money for qualifiers (but give back if you make it to playoffs), MLG charges 70$ for every player outside pool play.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the difference is that MLG and NASL charge you money to participate, not qualify. The $10 or $25 or whatever that NASL charges is to make sure good players sign up for their open bracket. MLG's $70 is a participation fee, but it doesn't put you anywhere higher in the open bracket. It seems from the OP that these countries without qualifiers would just get the teams that pay to instantly be in a slot in a tournament that has other teams that qualified. So if Sweden doesn't have qualifiers but the US does, then Idra will have to defeat a lot of people to make it while Morrow would have to pay to make it.
That actually does not seem fair, not only to the people like Idra that might qualify, but the others that were knocked out by him that could not qualify.
But again, I could be misinterpreting what people are saying. This is a little confusing.
On August 29 2011 23:46 halvorg wrote: As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NASL and IPL charge money for qualifiers (but give back if you make it to playoffs), MLG charges 70$ for every player outside pool play.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the difference is that MLG and NASL charge you money to participate, not qualify. The $10 or $25 or whatever that NASL charges is to make sure good players sign up for their open bracket. MLG's $70 is a participation fee, but it doesn't put you anywhere higher in the open bracket. It seems from the OP that these countries without qualifiers would just get the teams that pay to instantly be in a slot in a tournament that has other teams that qualified. So if Sweden doesn't have qualifiers but the US does, then Idra will have to defeat a lot of people to make it while Morrow would have to pay to make it.
That actually does not seem fair, not only to the people like Idra that might qualify, but the others that were knocked out by him that could not qualify.
But again, I could be misinterpreting what people are saying. This is a little confusing.
That's a bit unfair if you let everyone who pays $200 into the finals. But it's a candidature thing. If five teams from sweden apply for the ESWC finals they are not assured to be accepted, there will be a review of the candidature based "achievement" and national representation (i.e they won't let 12 teams from the same country into the finals) and then they will have to pay the $200/player to come because they are not sponsored by a qualifier.
In fact One of the thing people don't take into consideration is that those $200/player are probably paid by the people who organize qualifiers in the different country. And if you don't have a qualifiers that sponsors you, you have to pay (or you real sponsor has to).
If there's issues with payouts and ontop of that, a huge fee, then yes, I do agree with the boycott.
NASL's fee is a deposit that is meant to be used to punish players for unprofessional conduct. MLG's fee is a participation fee to the open bracket. Almost think of it as purchasing a ticket into a convention.
What ESWC is doing is letting you buy your spot into the grand finals. Where NASL and MLG, you have to qualify for their finals.
EDIT: i think the big issue here is probably not wanting to put up with getting the prize money. In the past, you could fly your players and still get publicity for them being there, but now, you have to put 1000$ so that your team can participate. So it's just teams not wanting to put up with ESWC
There is no other way for those players to qualify. So you would rather have Jinro and the likes ineligible rather than let them put up some money to have a chance?
Not sure how that would help E-Sports by making a ton of players ineligible.
On August 30 2011 00:18 Corrik wrote: There is no other way for those players to qualify. So you would rather have Jinro and the likes ineligible rather than let them put up some money to have a chance?
Not sure how that would help E-Sports by making a ton of players ineligible.
So the grand finals should be whoever pays top dollar then right? Why on earth would you try to support a tournament with this type of rule.
Considering that it is only eligible for countries without qualifiers and that they will weed out people who are not suitable, I think that is all right. Well, 200$ might be somewhat high, but so is a deposit of 400$.
On August 30 2011 00:18 Corrik wrote: There is no other way for those players to qualify. So you would rather have Jinro and the likes ineligible rather than let them put up some money to have a chance?
Not sure how that would help E-Sports by making a ton of players ineligible.
So the grand finals should be whoever pays top dollar then right? Why on earth would you try to support a tournament with this type of rule.
You can't pay for a spot unless your country does not have a qualifier... and even then they weed out players. Instead of complaining, actually read the topic.
You guys are quite suffering from a lack of brain.
1st : Ukraine has a qualifiers. Thus Na'Vi should be able to qualify through this.
2nd : the "booking" is just a secured place for the countries who don't have Online qualifiers (at least that's how I understand that) and doesn't grant a place in the finals just in the bracket.
3rd : Na'Vi DotA team just won 1M, and 1000€ is too much for them ? Oh spare me. Not every team has the financial back-up to do that.
And stop whining about money getting over eSports. Players salaries are not disclose as aren't the salaries of non-player staff (as Anno Prosser or Husky or even - yes I dare - Day9) I won't be surprise if they make big bucks. Does it shock me ? No, because they have earned it.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NASL and IPL charge money for qualifiers (but give back if you make it to playoffs), MLG charges 70$ for every player outside pool play.
ClouD lives in Germany full-time though, right? I see him very often in Take's apartment. <3
edit: anyways, cannot believe that a tournament calling itself world championship does not make a qualifier in Sweden and China though, so many good players there and it does not take much to make at least an online qualifier. It takes even less than creating an english version of your supposedly international site!
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NASL and IPL charge money for qualifiers (but give back if you make it to playoffs), MLG charges 70$ for every player outside pool play.
ClouD lives in Germany full-time though, right? I see him very often in Take's apartment. <3
edit: anyways, cannot believe that a tournament calling itself world championship does not make a qualifier in Sweden and China though, so many good players there and it does not take much to make at least an online qualifier. It takes even less than creating an english version of your supposedly international site!
Is this a mistranslation? Buying into the Grand Finals means that you're automatically placed in the absolute final game of the tournament competing for first or second place. If it's a buy-in to the bracket then that's another matter entirely, and if that's only for countries without qualifiers then that's not really an issue at all.
So...come back with same name, but accept no fault for past due money (150k for 07/08), then ask top teams for exorbitant reg fee = GG ESWC, thank god you mean nothing in the grand scheme of esports these days.
On August 29 2011 22:16 busbarn wrote: It's a bit silly to boycott for something like this imo. AFAIK winners of qualifiers get paid travel etc, so my point is, I think that the teams would rather qualify than buying a spot, no? Also more teams/players the merrier?
So...come back with same name, but accept no fault for past due money (150k for 07/08), then ask top teams for exorbitant reg fee = GG ESWC, thank god you mean nothing in the grand scheme of esports these days.
Ouch, that is really harsh denunciation -.- Leave it to sirscoots to not hold back the vitriol. Well if those teams ALL boycott... there may be a good reason, but personally idk about bad/good
On August 29 2011 22:40 divito wrote: I always have to remember that TL is a completely different community from the one I came from, and that this ignorance to what ESWC was and is, is not all that far-fetched to see. With that said, it's already been cleared up in subsequent responses to the OP. It would be nice for the OP to update with accurate information rather than what it contains.
That said, I dream of a day when ESWC goes back to the original people, original mission:
On August 29 2011 22:01 malaan wrote: ESWC Is and always has been a joke. I participated in the ESWC's of the early 2000's with Counter Strike and they where always plagued with stupid idiotic rules (such things as flash bugging on maps which had bugged boxes) and blatantly rigged seeding so that teams sponsored by certain companies would have an easy route to the finals.
In my experience, they where always about the money. It was never about the games. Thats why CPL took over everything worth talking about in the CS scene back then.
I can't even begin to address how wrong this is.
full vid
And its funny that he talks about cpl taking over becasue eswc had a bad history of not paying. Because when you talk to any old cs player cpl is generally considered one of the shaddiest tournies around and angel munez(or w/e) is considered a douche bag.
NASL has a deposit which is refundable if you don't break rules, which means as long as you show up every week, participation is free.... this is just straight up "give us $200"
I thought NASL and IPL also do the same thing. NASL requires registration fees for qualifier; and security fees for the fifty-man tournament. IPL requires 20 dollars registration fees for qualifier also.
Great, speaking of CPL its about time to boycott that as well, if we are going to exclude organizations that do not pay out past prize money under new management, lets at least keep it consistent.
On August 30 2011 12:17 Holcan wrote: Great, speaking of CPL its about time to boycott that as well, if we are going to exclude organizations that do not pay out past prize money under new management, lets at least keep it consistent.
On August 30 2011 12:17 Holcan wrote: Great, speaking of CPL its about time to boycott that as well, if we are going to exclude organizations that do not pay out past prize money under new management, lets at least keep it consistent.
Yea I'm pretty sure that's not the only reason.
Since you seem to be the manager of one of the teams taking part in the boycott, please divulge why you have chosen to boycott ESWC.
if you really believe that they offered a slot in the top2 for money, then i have no words to describe how stupid you are... there are qualifiers in some countries, and then there is the grand final in paris i believe..
how is this bad? surely it's better than having no qualifier in those countries at all. further the competition and all. does make enticing & misleading headlines though =\
Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
On August 29 2011 22:00 TheSilverfox wrote: ESWC have a really bad reputation with not paying out their money.
Its indeed really sad when people train so hard and don't get their prize money as a reward. Btw Intel Extreme Masters also has a very bad reputation of not paying out the money.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"? Assuming you are right, it doesn't mean that the issue should not be addressed. Has it been addressed? Has ESWC gone and talked to all of the teams that their previous owners owed money to? Have they attempted to explain what new ownership means?
Maybe they do not legally owe anyone money, but it doesn't mean they can just create a tournament and teams will be willing to trust them automatically. Whether it is logical or not, some people feel burned by the actions of the ESWC (under previous owners) and that isn't going to go away just by someone saying "well we weren't those guys, so it's different now".
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well the money would have went mostly to the players and I would think they'd want their 150k. I know right, such greedy progamers.
Anyways, you can declare bankruptcy then reopen without owing money? Really? I'm sure it's true because laws about these stuff tend to be really stupid.. but it just seems pretty ridiculous.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"? Assuming you are right, it doesn't mean that the issue should not be addressed. Has it been addressed? Has ESWC gone and talked to all of the teams that their previous owners owed money to? Have they attempted to explain what new ownership means?
Maybe they do not legally owe anyone money, but it doesn't mean they can just create a tournament and teams will be willing to trust them automatically. Whether it is logical or not, some people feel burned by the actions of the ESWC (under previous owners) and that isn't going to go away just by someone saying "well we weren't those guys, so it's different now".
Except, it is different. ESCW '10 went without any issues whatsoever. It is borderline defamation, at the very least political maneuvering what the teams are doing.
You can clearly see from this thread how short the reading comprehension of the masses falls. To spin it the other way, that's probably what this boycott is intended to do. Public damage.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well the money would have went mostly to the players and I would think they'd want their 150k. I know right, such greedy progamers.
Anyways, you can declare bankruptcy then reopen without owing money? Really? I'm sure it's true because laws about these stuff tend to be really stupid.. but it just seems pretty ridiculous.
No it is not, because it is not the same people. You won't inherit the original owner's debt, when you buy his shop. Everything else would be ridiculous.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
This is not a maneuver in a court of law, a set of teams decide to not participate with a brand that shafted them, hugely, once before. Why is it wrong in your eyes? If a local restaurant treated me poorly, I won't go back again, even if they'd have a "under new management" sign. There's plenty of tournaments to participate in. ESWC is the one with the poor track record.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
This is not a maneuver in a court of law, a set of teams decide to not participate with a brand that shafted them, hugely, once before. Why is it wrong in your eyes?
It's because of the misleading use of the entry fee argument. Which apparently worked here.
That's a fair point. The OP and the teams should be clearer in specifying their grievances instead of keeping the fans guessing. The bad blood has to be much more than just fees.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well the money would have went mostly to the players and I would think they'd want their 150k. I know right, such greedy progamers.
Anyways, you can declare bankruptcy then reopen without owing money? Really? I'm sure it's true because laws about these stuff tend to be really stupid.. but it just seems pretty ridiculous.
No it is not, because it is not the same people. You won't inherit the original owner's debt, when you buy his shop. Everything else would be ridiculous.
Would depend on the type of organization ESWC had before and whether it actually filed for bankruptcy, but in the case of straightforward acquisitions, you're straight out wrong. If you buy a company through shares, you buy the assets and the liabilities together. Again, its complicated and I'm not suggesting that this is the case with ESWC, but suffice to say that reopening under the same brand with a different management does not automatically mean that all their previous obligations have been resolved.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Well that is a really douchey way to address someone. "Darling"?
More like an ill-advised literal translation. It doesn't come off as rude in French (though not very mannered either). Not that I agree with the core of the argument, but I doubt the douchebaggery was intended.
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Honey, I don't recall citing any laws. If you purchase a company, you are inheriting the brand. As far as I am aware, even here in the US, you are not indebted to pay passed dues. However, does that mean your customers, or in this case your players, are simply going to forget about what they are owed?
These teams pay thousands of dollars to travel to these events and not getting their prize money completely blanks the legitimacy of the tournament. I understand it is a different brand, and different owners, but in the end they are representing the same tournament.
Some people are ruining eSports, and it's certainly not the players.
I feel the boycotting teams are just bitter about the prize money from previous events. It has been said enough that the $200 cost is only for teams that don't have qualifiers, and it covers pretty much every major country barring Canada and Sweden. Obviously ESWC would have wanted qualifiers in those countries but for reasons we may never figure out it just didn't happen. So I feel that ESWC realized that instead of giving the teams of those countries no chance to compete, they would rather hold a fee for the teams to participate. I personally don't see anything wrong with that, especially when it looks like they're expecting this to only work on Sweden and maybe Canada, while only sending 1 representation for each country (unlike the 3 or 2 from other countries with qualifiers).
For example, WCG Canada is not sending a SC2 representative this year to the event, considering Canada has arguably the top foreigner right now (Huk), this is disappointing to me and many other fans. However, this isn't because WCG didn't try, it's because of certain circumstances outside their power did not work (sponsors in this case), which I assume ESWC is in the same situation with Sweden. If WCG came with a process similar to ESWC, me and many other Canadians would be ecstatic at the possibility of Huk going to WCG and representing Canada. I'm also pretty sure EG wouldn't mind the fee to send him to a top tier event, where he wouldn't have gone other wise.
The $200 fee for each player does seem a little to much when you have to cover your own travel as well, but isn't ratio of prize pool and entrance fee of MLG similar to that of this ESWC event?
Even then I feel these teams boycotting are about something more then just the money from previous events. Where were the boycotts when CPL held a SC2 event in China? Don't they owe just as much money? Seems to me like teams are just trying to flex muscles by boycotting events.
The money owed by ESWC is very unfortunate but all this boycotting does is hurt esports. If the entry money was really a problem then the teams should have just not entered, but they went on with a boycott which could possibly hurt CS, from what I've heard is slowly dying, and kill CS:S outright (isn't this the last major CS:S event?).
On September 01 2011 09:04 Grettin wrote: About this, tune in for Live on 3 RIGHT NOW to hear more or check the VoD later on.
I also find it funny that sirscoots said his players could go to other events instead like blizzcon, but none of his players qualified for it. Also find it unfair to players of qualified countries of these boycotted teams, that qualified. They get a free trip to France, yet they are unable to go due to this.
I can say that after thorough consideration and exploring the opinions of other teams in e-Sports we, Team Liquid, have decided not to participate in the tournament either. We find tournament and the prizemoney interesting, however the $200.00/player is an issue for us.
On September 02 2011 22:47 Bumblebee wrote: I can say that after thorough consideration and exploring the opinions of other teams in e-Sports we, Team Liquid, have decided not to participate in the tournament either. We find tournament and the prizemoney interesting, however the $200.00/player is an issue for us.
Makes sense. If i may ask, was this the only reason you decided to not to participate or did the history of the organisation/league also "bother" you and did it affect to your decisions at all?
On August 30 2011 13:30 taLbuk wrote: Pretty sure what happened was the ESWC owes 170k to several teams from the 07/08 season.
New people come in and buy the ESWC brand, and act as if they don't owe money because they are different owners etc.
This has been known for quite a while as I remember Scoots talking about this about a year and a half ago on Live on Three when ESWC was bought and put a new website back up.
The bigger issue seems to be the money owed, not the entrance fee for countries without qualifiers to buy into the bracket.
I'm sorry, darling but the world doesn't have the same laws as the US. When you go bankrupt in France, you are not forced to pay what you owe unless there is a justice decision. The company went bankrupt (for various economical reasons including some financial decision made by foreign investment companies) The money owed to the teams is lost forever and nothing will changes this fact, not even big eSports teams whining because they supposedly don't have the money ...
Furthermore the players have to send their registration BEFORE paying which shows that the ruckus made around this is complete bullshit.
As the wise man said : some people are ruining eSports but it's not always the tournaments.
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. This isn't a way to run an event.
On September 02 2011 22:47 Bumblebee wrote: I can say that after thorough consideration and exploring the opinions of other teams in e-Sports we, Team Liquid, have decided not to participate in the tournament either. We find tournament and the prizemoney interesting, however the $200.00/player is an issue for us.
Makes sense. If i may ask, was this the only reason you decided to not to participate or did the history of the organisation/league also "bother" you and did it affect to your decisions at all?
Great to see Liquid keeping people updated.
All factors of course had its effect on the decision, but it's primarily about going side by side with our fellow organisations and that we have an issue with tournaments going towards asking for huge attendant fees while we still have to cover all costs.
On August 29 2011 21:51 Magrath wrote: That's crazy. Money shouldn't rule esports to a point where you can buy your way in to touraments.
That is not the case, teams and players that have no qualifier will have the oppertunity to attend the event anyway. Applications will be reviewed. This is a solution for them to attend the event.
In the past qualifications were done all over the world, but these days national partners are not able/willing anymore to pay all the costs of the winner. So in order for big teams/players to attend, this system is created besides all national qualifiers.
On August 29 2011 22:00 TheSilverfox wrote: ESWC have a really bad reputation with not paying out their money.
With this news & ESWCs reputation - will anyone come to play in this tournament? I mean, it's a lot of potential money to the winner but you really can't be sure when you get them.
The old ESWC organization went bankrupt but apart of their last event paid always all their prizemoney. The new ESWC organization paid all of their prizemoney within a few weeks, so in that case there is no reason to be afraid of being not paid.
On August 29 2011 22:01 malaan wrote: ESWC Is and always has been a joke. I participated in the ESWC's of the early 2000's with Counter Strike and they where always plagued with stupid idiotic rules (such things as flash bugging on maps which had bugged boxes) and blatantly rigged seeding so that teams sponsored by certain companies would have an easy route to the finals.
In my experience, they where always about the money. It was never about the games. Thats why CPL took over everything worth talking about in the CS scene back then.
That situation was at the World Cyber Games, not ESWC. ESWC always had proper rules.
On August 29 2011 22:02 Seronei wrote: I thought this was only for teams/players from countries that didn't have any ESWC qualifier?
On August 31 2011 03:11 Primadog wrote: This is not a maneuver in a court of law, a set of teams decide to not participate with a brand that shafted them, hugely, once before. Why is it wrong in your eyes?
It's because of the misleading use of the entry fee argument. Which apparently worked here.
This guy said it all.
The true problem : the price of the entry fee (which can be covered by major teams but is by NO MEANS cheap) and top teams don't want to pay and decide to defame the tournament.
The argument : Places in the final can be bought (which is ABSOLUTELY FALSE)
The effect : People getting emo over it and start spreading rubbish fallacy over the interwebs. At least TL had the decency to be honest about it : they don't want to pay.
Did any discussions happened between the organisation and the teams ? Not that I heard of.
Did people boycott MLG because it's totally not worth it playing in it and the viewing condition were bad ?
I would not be surprised if once again the ESWC had huge problems. This tournament was once the best organized tournament worldwide way ahead of the WCG. And after sponsors killed it once, will competitors finish the job ?
I will go to the Paris Games Week and cheer on the SC2 players during the weekend and it won't matter TO ME if they paid or not or if the price is too high . I support eSports by providing the best support there is : viewership.
Shame on those hypocrites who use pseudo morality to obtain what they want.
Koreans at ESWC haha probably even more of a reason for foreign teams to not want to go.
Ill definitely be watching, screw the boycott its petty bickering over a registration fee. If teams dont want to pay for it thats fine, but why boycott it doesnt change anything.
It's ridiculous having to pay that much AND covering the travel cost, seriously. If they can't have qualifier everywhere, then why don't they just invite a couple of players from those qualifierless contry, like they did for Korea? And... 200$ per player, wtf?
I won't watch for the reasons listed in the op, given that no player of those teams will attend, and the fact that MKP, MC and Nada will all go, it's gonna be korean top 3 anyways...
I guess SK Gaming is not so worried anymore. iirc MC and Nada get their international events sponsored by them and now they are attending ESWC. Does not sound like that much of a boycott to me, even if they do not have to pay fees for their invites (not sure if that's the case but would be kind of retarded otherwise)
On September 16 2011 00:02 DonkeyShot wrote: I guess SK Gaming is not so worried anymore. iirc MC and Nada get their international events sponsored by them and now they are attending ESWC. Does not sound like that much of a boycott to me, even if they do not have to pay fees for their invites (not sure if that's the case but would be kind of retarded otherwise)
MC/NaDa have been sent by GOM, not by SK. Having said that it would not surprise me if they would be pulled because SK would veto it.
On September 16 2011 00:02 DonkeyShot wrote: I guess SK Gaming is not so worried anymore. iirc MC and Nada get their international events sponsored by them and now they are attending ESWC. Does not sound like that much of a boycott to me, even if they do not have to pay fees for their invites (not sure if that's the case but would be kind of retarded otherwise)
Since it is a partnership between Gom and ESWC, I don't think SK Gaming has anything to do with it. They will probably get everything paid.
On September 16 2011 00:02 DonkeyShot wrote: I guess SK Gaming is not so worried anymore. iirc MC and Nada get their international events sponsored by them and now they are attending ESWC. Does not sound like that much of a boycott to me, even if they do not have to pay fees for their invites (not sure if that's the case but would be kind of retarded otherwise)
MC/NaDa have been sent by GOM, not by SK. Having said that it would not surprise me if they would be pulled because SK would veto it.
Good point. Depends on their contract with SK I guess.
On September 16 2011 00:02 DonkeyShot wrote: I guess SK Gaming is not so worried anymore. iirc MC and Nada get their international events sponsored by them and now they are attending ESWC. Does not sound like that much of a boycott to me, even if they do not have to pay fees for their invites (not sure if that's the case but would be kind of retarded otherwise)
Since it is a partnership between Gom and ESWC, I don't think SK Gaming has anything to do with it. They will probably get everything paid.
Good point also : ). We'll probably just see them without their SK jerseys.
// sorry for double post. Should have just edited it : (
I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
So you have the online Qualifiers in 32 Countries and National qualys for 27 Countries, so the 200$ fee is there only for ppl that is not within this countries.
Edit: Also you have to apply for the 200$ chance. They won't give it to anyone that is willing to pay. There will be a selection for this.
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
wow, this is just ridiculous. Registration fees are part of any major tournament but to have them INSTEAD of a qualifier and just let teams buy their way into the the qualifiers? That's hurting ESPORTS
On September 16 2011 00:51 bRuTaL!! wrote: The boycotting doesnt make much sense. Ill reserve my judgement. I dont like teams pushing tournament organizers around either.
So you agree with the new rule about buying your way into the playoffs? wow... How do you call yourself a gamer.
On September 16 2011 00:51 bRuTaL!! wrote: The boycotting doesnt make much sense. Ill reserve my judgement. I dont like teams pushing tournament organizers around either.
So you agree with the new rule about buying your way into the playoffs? wow... How do you call yourself a gamer.
You can win in qualifiers and get in for free right? If someone wants to risk $200 + travel expenses to play in ESWC then I dont mind. If he wins then he deserved that place in the first place, if he loses then what difference does it make?
The other option is no option of playing at all...
I read somewhere that WCG lost lots of sponsorship money so I guess they are desperate Though honestly don't think many people will be buying their way into it tbh
On September 16 2011 00:51 bRuTaL!! wrote: The boycotting doesnt make much sense. Ill reserve my judgement. I dont like teams pushing tournament organizers around either.
So you agree with the new rule about buying your way into the playoffs? wow... How do you call yourself a gamer.
You can win in qualifiers and get in for free right? If someone wants to risk $200 + travel expenses to play in ESWC then I dont mind. If he wins then he deserved that place in the first place, if he loses then what difference does it make?
The other option is no option of playing at all...
If this is the actual explanation I don't get the problem at all.
If there's no qualifiers, and you still want areas without qualifiers to be able to send players, a high entry fee actually makes sense. Helps keep the 12 yo's out.
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
This boycott makes no sense. For players in countries without qualifiers... it's either a high entry fee or no ability to play at all. This option is much better. I think a lot of these teams are kinda butt hurt that their players won't / have not qualified while some players from other countries can pay money. This seems a bit selfish.
From the replies posted to this thread it seems like many people read 1-2 lines from the OP which is about 1% of the information available on the subject and form an opinion.
A few years back, this would have been a really bad news. But I'm glad that in this day and age, we can just ignore the ESWC and get on with our SC2 lives.
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
This boycott makes no sense. For players in countries without qualifiers... it's either a high entry fee or no ability to play at all. This option is much better. I think a lot of these teams are kinda butt hurt that their players won't / have not qualified while some players from other countries can pay money. This seems a bit selfish.
Why should any Joe Average who happens to live in a country without a qualifier be able to pay for a spot when any Joe Average who happens to live in a country with a qualifier has to show that they're good enough for a spot? That's completely unfair, I totally back this boycott.
EDIT: On top of how blatantly unfair this idea is, there is an added risk. People getting to the tournament by paying, without having shown they're good enough to be there, have the potential to lower the quality of the games that are played whilst simultaneously making it seem like certain players have had easier rides into the latter rounds, ruining the legitimacy of the tournament.
Read the god damn interview... jesus christ.
They can't afford to hold Offline qualifiers in most countries any more. Therefore they have online qualifiers and the option for the money is for players in countries where there are no online qualifiers. You also have to apply... it can't just be some random player who buys his way into it. That's just wrong. You get in based on a variety of factors determined by the community - A random bronze player with a lot of money can't get into the tournament.
Please read the fucking interview before you make idiotic posts like this.
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
This boycott makes no sense. For players in countries without qualifiers... it's either a high entry fee or no ability to play at all. This option is much better. I think a lot of these teams are kinda butt hurt that their players won't / have not qualified while some players from other countries can pay money. This seems a bit selfish.
Why should any Joe Average who happens to live in a country without a qualifier be able to pay for a spot when any Joe Average who happens to live in a country with a qualifier has to show that they're good enough for a spot? That's completely unfair, I totally back this boycott.
EDIT: On top of how blatantly unfair this idea is, there is an added risk. People getting to the tournament by paying, without having shown they're good enough to be there, have the potential to lower the quality of the games that are played whilst simultaneously making it seem like certain players have had easier rides into the latter rounds, ruining the legitimacy of the tournament.
Joe Average still has to pay thousands of dollars for travel, hotel and the 200$ Winner of qualifier has to pay nothing, after winning his qualifier
If England doesn't have a qualifier, EG can still send Demuslim, and we would have english represantation at the Electronic Sport World Cup, to compete for a massive prize pool. I can't see what's the big deal here.
the point you made in your edit is the same as any open bracket, like MLG or Dreamhack. Some gets easier brackets than others, that's the way it's always been.
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
Wow this is ridiculous, teams are angry about this???? Eswc does people a favor by providing players with no qualifiers to join the competition and teams are pissed?
No offense but this looks like teams aren't pissed about the 200$ for countries without qualifier fee but rather they are pissed about escw's previous bankcruptcy which is in no way the fault of the new owners of the company. I am definitely going to be watching this and I hope it becomes a good tourney.
Looking forward to the winner of the 20k!!!!!!!!! hope whiter, dimaga stephano, and col join. It will be a sick tourney with those people anyways.
Seriously guyz, this boycott is just stupid. The 200$ fee looks totally legitimate for me. If you think you're good enough, you gotta pay 200 dols, and that is not nothing, right? We will see only really good player there and it's a good way to let them a chance.
The true question is : how many payable spot is there? This needs to be well balanced.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to help pay for travel to qualifiers? Or a separate on-line qualifier for teams that did not have a national event to go to? I realise that its a good idea to offer teams that could not get into the finals any other way, but it does still feel like you're buying your way in. My personal opinion though
On September 16 2011 19:32 Hassybaby wrote: Wouldn't it have made more sense to help pay for travel to qualifiers? Or a separate on-line qualifier for teams that did not have a national event to go to? I realise that its a good idea to offer teams that could not get into the finals any other way, but it does still feel like you're buying your way in. My personal opinion though
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
Wow this is ridiculous, teams are angry about this???? Eswc does people a favor by providing players with no qualifiers to join the competition and teams are pissed?
No offense but this looks like teams aren't pissed about the 200$ for countries without qualifier fee but rather they are pissed about escw's previous bankcruptcy which is in no way the fault of the new owners of the company. I am definitely going to be watching this and I hope it becomes a good tourney.
Looking forward to the winner of the 20k!!!!!!!!! hope whiter, dimaga stephano, and col join. It will be a sick tourney with those people anyways.
The teams are also pissed because ESWC cut prizemoney for all competions, but at the same time put an exorbitant amount into sc2. (sc2 66k, cs 33k, dota 22k)
On September 16 2011 00:39 sekritzzz wrote: I don't get it and am kinda confused, don't players/teams have to pay ONLY if there is no qualifier In their region? Escw obviously doesn't cover everywhere but they cover a large part of the most famous places.
That's true. ESWC Netherlands is paying for everything for 2 SC2 players (trip, accommodation, license). The €200-to-enter is just an extra service being offered to countries' players which had no qualifiers.
Wow this is ridiculous, teams are angry about this???? Eswc does people a favor by providing players with no qualifiers to join the competition and teams are pissed?
No offense but this looks like teams aren't pissed about the 200$ for countries without qualifier fee but rather they are pissed about escw's previous bankcruptcy which is in no way the fault of the new owners of the company. I am definitely going to be watching this and I hope it becomes a good tourney.
Looking forward to the winner of the 20k!!!!!!!!! hope whiter, dimaga stephano, and col join. It will be a sick tourney with those people anyways.
The teams are also pissed because ESWC cut prizemoney for all competions, but at the same time put an exorbitant amount into sc2. (sc2 66k, cs 33k, dota 22k)
Isn't that kind of logical though? Sc2 as far as I know pulls in more views than cs and dota, so why not make it more interesting and offer larger prize pools?
If LoL were to be included, I would not be surprised if it got a bigger prize pool than sc2. More viewers more prizes, simple as that.
Interesting situation, glancing over the thread it seems like its not such a simple rule alone having an effect on teams decision to boycott the event. That being said teams seem pretty united in their decision which certainly reflects onto ESWC. I'll have to read more about this.
On September 16 2011 19:32 Hassybaby wrote: Wouldn't it have made more sense to help pay for travel to qualifiers? Or a separate on-line qualifier for teams that did not have a national event to go to? I realise that its a good idea to offer teams that could not get into the finals any other way, but it does still feel like you're buying your way in. My personal opinion though
there are online qualis
Please read
I meant for the countries that have no qualifiers. It would basically take the same amount of effort between reading through all the apps and just setting up small online tournaments, so why not just be like "ok, for this country, we're gonna have a qualification tourney at this time, and this guy (who would have been going through the apps anyways) will be overseeing it. The winner gets an invite"
On September 16 2011 19:22 SChlafmann wrote: Seriously guyz, this boycott is just stupid. The 200$ fee looks totally legitimate for me. If you think you're good enough, you gotta pay 200 dols, and that is not nothing, right? We will see only really good player there and it's a good way to let them a chance.
The true question is : how many payable spot is there? This needs to be well balanced.
It's not just $200, these organisations are multigaming organisations who are being asked to pay $1k for their CS teams etc.
Haha, you read further in the thread and you see certain Korean players are being sent. Oh and then all the usual names dodge even bothering to show up.
The global tournaments of late have really been falling through. A similar issue happened in the CS scene where global tournaments were sticking it to the competitors in one way or another and back then when the G7 all of them boycotted and basically killed tournaments. Hopefully a similar situation does not arise and the tournament organizers realize they need to support the teams and players to get anything done.
its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
I aggree in all of the team's dicisions, for a fairly big tournament. People shouldn't just be able to buy or bid their way into the finals, that just takes away all the teams hard work and dedication to do better.
ESWC use to be a huge tournament and had many player and teams respect. But since the economic situation they seem to be doing worse and worse ever since they closed ESWC and then re-opened it. Hopefully with this boycott it will get back to it's standards and be once again a high reputable tournament.
On September 17 2011 01:10 perestain wrote: its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
this is horrible.
The teams are really being unrealistic and borderline disgusting.
Stuff like this is so stupid that it doesn't even bother me because i just think that the organizers are going to get punished for their own stupidity very very soon.
On September 17 2011 01:10 perestain wrote: its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
this is horrible.
The teams are really being unrealistic and borderline disgusting.
borderline disgusting because they disagree? do you like your right to free speech?
Well if there was a misunderstanding between the teams and the ESWC, it might be cleared quickly. ESWC committee dropped the attendance fee today. Now teams have no excuses anymore...
On September 17 2011 06:06 Koorb wrote: Well if there was a misunderstanding between the teams and the ESWC, it might be cleared quickly. ESWC committee dropped the attendance fee today. Now teams have no excuses anymore...
no excuses except the $170,000 owed from the 08/09 season?
On September 17 2011 01:10 perestain wrote: its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
this is horrible.
The teams are really being unrealistic and borderline disgusting.
I think this also has something to do with ESWC not paying the winning players. I remember some WC3 teams boycotted ESWC last year for that reason.
well, MLG charges ppl and you can buy your way in so I don't see to much of a difference. Sure this is more extreme and I say I also disagree but why has no1 been complaining about MLG? $70 is pretty steep for $5000. which is a fraction of what the total entry money adds up to be.
overall tho, glad to see these teams boycotting :-)
On September 17 2011 06:17 PhiliBiRD wrote: well, MLG charges ppl and you can buy your way in so I don't see to much of a difference. Sure this is more extreme and I say I also disagree but why has no1 been complaining about MLG? $70 is pretty steep for $5000. which is a fraction of what the total entry money adds up to be.
overall tho, glad to see these teams boycotting :-)
Because ESWC didn't pay price money in the past, went bankrupt, came back LAST YEAR and 1 year later wanted to charge people an entry fee.
MLG has been consistent on all fronts.
When you have a good history people will pay for your product. When you don't people question it.
On September 17 2011 06:10 taLbuk wrote: no excuses except the $170,000 owed from the 08/09 season?
That is not the reason that the teams gave to explain their boycott. Indeed, unlike you, they are aware of the fact that the company which currently use the brand ESWC is not the company that went bankrupt a few years ago, leaving the prize unpaid.
On September 17 2011 06:10 taLbuk wrote: no excuses except the $170,000 owed from the 08/09 season?
That is not the reason that the teams gave to explain their boycott. Indeed, unlike you, they are aware of the fact that the company which currently use the brand ESWC is not the company that went bankrupt a few years ago, leaving the prize unpaid.
It's part of the reason. They know ESWC is under new management, but the fact that they essentially are trying to buy the brand and everything good that comes with it (name recognition, fame, fond memories, etc), while ignoring the huge failure to pay out winners is something that cannot go unnoticed.
ESWC is under new management, and if that management wishes to continue to use ESWC's legacy as marketing, they should pay out those who were wronged. They're not legally obligated to, but it wouldn't hurt.
On September 17 2011 06:10 taLbuk wrote: no excuses except the $170,000 owed from the 08/09 season?
That is not the reason that the teams gave to explain their boycott. Indeed, unlike you, they are aware of the fact that the company which currently use the brand ESWC is not the company that went bankrupt a few years ago, leaving the prize unpaid.
hah, i am fully aware that the company was bought, if you care, listen to the lo3 from a few weeks back where they talk about the whole thing, also they talked about eswc coming back on an episode about a year ago and about how they would have nothing to do with it until past dues were paid.
Yes!!! I can finally make it to the grand finals of big tourny!!!! I should just pay for first because im only diamond league but it's still nice to know that i can get a major unfair advantage by just spending some money... This seems like those Korean games that are Free to play but have a store where you spend real money to negate having to try or learn anything!.. This will be really cool for me but the only thing im not looking forward too is not being able to see some of the best players in the world.. Just diamond kids like me with money
Don't you guys read? You need to APPLY first in order to get the option to play for 200$. They will take into account your past accomplishments online and on LANs. And NO you diamond guy couldn't buy your way into this tournament even with 2000$
Still arguing over something that was returned to its normal status today. You guys are pathetic and quite frankly, you should read more before talking like know-it-all.
On September 17 2011 01:10 perestain wrote: its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
this is horrible.
The teams are really being unrealistic and borderline disgusting.
borderline disgusting because they disagree? do you like your right to free speech?
Wow, really? You're pulling that card?
It's borderline disgusting because they're manipulating what the community sees and are deliberately trying to paint the organizers as the bad guys when they're ultimately not doing anything wrong.
Free speech is one thing...trying to slander an organization is entirely different.
On September 17 2011 01:10 perestain wrote: its quite disgusting to see teams go so far and try to make the community believe that the tournament is actually selling the top spots in the finals, thereby damaging the image and integrity of a tournament permanently, just because they dont agree with an entrance fee and want to put pressure on the organisers.
this is horrible.
The teams are really being unrealistic and borderline disgusting.
borderline disgusting because they disagree? do you like your right to free speech?
Wow, really? You're pulling that card?
It's borderline disgusting because they're manipulating what the community sees and are deliberately trying to paint the organizers as the bad guys when they're ultimately not doing anything wrong.
Free speech is one thing...trying to slander an organization is entirely different.
I completely agree. IF they want to trash on ESWC because the previous managers didn't pay the winners - that's one thing. Obviously they have their bones to pick. But to basically say "Hey they are buying out slots to undeserving players" is slanderous. It's just not true - It's dishonest.
EPT
its petty bickering over a registration fee. If teams dont want to pay for it thats fine, but why boycott it doesnt change anything.
