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Totalbiscuit on IdrA's casting - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PandaBlunt
Profile Joined September 2010
United States292 Posts
May 13 2011 07:28 GMT
#81
On May 13 2011 16:24 diddLY wrote:
This matters because Idra is quitting pro gaming to become a caster.

You are right for the wrong reasons TB.


Source please. I'd love to read where you read this.

(╮°-°)╮┳━┳
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
May 13 2011 07:28 GMT
#82
On May 13 2011 16:24 probablywrong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 16:12 LITTLEHEAD wrote:
if you're referencing wikipedia for your points, idk how much you should take from what he says


Well, it's about sports commentary, not quantum mechanics. I don't think you can just pull out a list of references for play-by-play commentary that people would call legit or "scholarly". It's not as if he's got a bad argument anyway, if you try to digest what TB wrote.
__________

Anyway, I really don't see the point as to why TB really needs to go at length about it though. People enjoy IdrA and he's one of the few exceptions when it comes to monotonous casting.

I'd sort of liken it to listening to Hubie Brown calling NBA games. He doesn't stick out like when Marv Albert goes "YES" but he really calls games beautifully.

Im just quoting to tell you that Marv is a play by play commentator, and Hubie is the color guy, its two different personalities you are comparing.

note: if the person you are saying is like Marv was actually an ex coach, you'll probably wrong :D.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 08:09:55
May 13 2011 07:29 GMT
#83
On May 13 2011 16:12 LITTLEHEAD wrote:
if you're referencing wikipedia for your points, idk how much you should take from what he says


He didn't reference Wikipedia for any points.
He referenced Wikipedia for people to see 2 facts.
Most people in the forum think play-by-play commentators are color commentators and they would never take his word for it when he says otherwise. He's educating them.

Many people in the forum are simple-minded. I know this one guy who couldn't tell the difference between a point and a fact. And he used his own ignorance to hate on someone else. Can you believe that guy?
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
GummyZerg
Profile Joined November 2010
United States277 Posts
May 13 2011 07:29 GMT
#84
On May 13 2011 16:26 iYiYi wrote:
TB brings nothing to the table. His "emotions" mean nothing when there is no content to fill them with. Whenever I hear him cast it seems like he is just straining himself just to think of things to say. With IdrA everything comes natural because he is watching a game he knows about. Of course IdrA isn't really a caster, but he sure is a lot better then some british/australian guy shouting random things into the mic.

Learn the game before you judge others TB, because in my opinion you aren't qualified to even cast professional starcraft.

Totally agree with this, TB's response sort of sounded as if he was defending casters with no knowledge of the game. IMO there are a lot of these in Starcraft, I think there are people in between like Incontrol, tasteless or Artosis, all of them have extensive Starcraft knowledge and are great casters.
uSnAmplified
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1029 Posts
May 13 2011 07:29 GMT
#85
idra may be kind of quiet or boring to some people, but i would rather have his in depth analysis over any of the one million shout casters. I hate to bash casters but its not to hard to find someone to ramble on about what we are already looking it, someone with idra analytical level is so rare its hard not appreciate what he brings to the table.
~
rbx270j
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
May 13 2011 07:29 GMT
#86
he's totally right about nearly all that was said, imho.
riboflavin
Profile Joined April 2010
United States226 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#87
On May 13 2011 16:25 Frugalicious wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 16:11 Atlare wrote:
Well with a misleading title and one line description of how you feel I recommend you actually think about what Totalbiscuit said.

IdrA is a colour-commentator. He fits all the criteria, he is analytical, he is there to provide background and extensive game knowledge, based on experience as a current/ex-player. He is there to fill in time when the play-by-play commentator is not talking and as a knowledgeable resource to back up the play-by-play commentator, who is more often than not, not a professional player/coach/ex-player, but a professional broadcaster.


Thats not slamming IdrA, thats comparing IdrA to a category in which he is already put in but the vocal minority doesn't really understand the different between Colour and Play by play and the values/advantages of each.

I think anybody trying to say IdrA is an amazing Play by Play poster is a fan boy and probably below average in the intelligence department and Totalbiscuit for Colour commentary is similar (ie. you shouldn't arguing that he can anaylse as effectively as say Day[9] or IdrA).

This isn't IdrA hate its Totalbiscuit trying to debunk the stupid fanboyism that's been shown by trolling him constantly.


Sadly after you made this statement, people reinforce your statement on the ignorance of the vocal minority. We all know Idra has excellent analysis skills, but again, a casual would be bored as they would not understand the depth of Idra's analysis and his monotonous voice. More experienced SC2 players are going to be drawn in by the analysis and overlook the monotony with ease. Casuals cannot. A simple analogy would be listening to Idra's analysis (from a casual's perspective) would be like listening to a teacher lecture in class, not fun/enjoyable.

TB has the charisma that Idra lacks, but does not possess the same level of game knowledge, hence he admits he is in the position of a play-by-player commentator.

I find it difficult that so many people cannot comprehend something so simple and well-defined several times in this thread.


Thank God, someone who gets it. The amount of garbage in the thread was making me sad for TL. I expect they stopped reading at the title and just responded based on a false claim.

I'll say it again. TB wasn't unfair or slamming anyone. I only hope that his point of view about the casuals market is shared by the entrepreneurs of eSports.

As a more hardcore fan, you can expect my business either way. But to win over the more casual spectators, leagues will have to present their product in an appealing fashion and not just throw some really smart SC guys in the booth.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9997 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#88
whenever i listen to idra cast i always make sure to have my pillow and blankie next to me
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Swineflew
Profile Joined October 2010
United States61 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#89
On May 13 2011 16:23 IronMonocle wrote:
Yahzee uh i mean Totalbiscuit needs to understand that this is not American Football he is casting but a deep strategic game of Starcraft 2. You don't have people yelling when someone makes a good play in a lot of sports especially strategic ones like chess.


This I guess is the basis of how I feel.
I just feel like he's asking a soccer caster to cast a game of chess.
THERE IT IS CHECKMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE.

Just because TB calls him a "colour-commentator" doesn't mean that TB can instantly say what IdrA should and should not be saying. TB is assuming that's why he was brought on and that those are black and white rules.
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#90
On May 13 2011 16:25 pbjsandwich wrote:
IdrA is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion.

this part just kills me. If Idra isn't a good caster then what does that makes TB?


Did you read the entire post? >.<
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#91
IdrA is an analyst for sure. He remains calm, whatever happens. This DOES take away some of the excitement while it adds more analysis. This is TBs point. No bashing, but rather pointing out the obvious.

Gretorp, however, seemed to trade in a lot of his enthousiasm because he was sitting next to IdrA. This left Gretorp with nothing, as he is not an analyst but a "hyper". So the only thing he was doing during the casts, was acknowledging everything IdrA said in a similar calm voice and with a lot more words.

I'm curious to see how the InControl - IdrA combo will be. I really like the excitement from InControl, let's hope he doesn't hold back.
Zeri
Profile Joined March 2010
United States773 Posts
May 13 2011 07:30 GMT
#92
I absolutely love idra's casts. and no TB isn't slamming idra in any way...
You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
shaladdle
Profile Joined September 2010
United States41 Posts
May 13 2011 07:31 GMT
#93
I think you have a reasonable point here. Personally I am trying to get better at the game, so I always appreciate and enjoy Idra's casting, since he really does know an incredible amount about the game. I think you are partly right about calling the game early, the part of me looking for entertainment gets less interested when the casters are saying "just waitin for player x to gg". On the other hand I disagree that them saying that doesn't teach anything. Sometimes something seemingly insignificant happens and Idra says "Oh, now it's over" and I'm a little surprised. I'm a Diamond player, and I still have a ton to learn.

The one word of advice I have for you, TotalBiscuit, is to chill out. I think you are a perfectly good caster, I probably would have watched your VODs a lot when I was in silver/gold league. But, if you were to tone down your emotions, you would get flamed a lot less. Don't take things personally, don't give the impression that you are freaking out (don't freak out). Calmly say what you know is true and less people will blindly hate. It just seems like you are trying to push people's buttons sometimes.

<3
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
May 13 2011 07:31 GMT
#94
I don't think you can compare e-sports to traditional sports in terms of casting, and I really wish TB and others would stop doing it. In every sport out there, it's just as easy to score points when you're down by 20 as when the game's tied. In SC, leads build on leads and incredibly subtle things can change the flow of the game. Good commentary, like Idra, points out those subtleties and gives the viewer insight into the complexities of the game.

I also don't think there's any room for play-by-play. In traditional sports PBP adds something, whether it's the speed and type of pitches in baseball or formations in football. In chess or SC2 you're just re-stating things that are incredibly obvious to the viewer if you do PBP, so you need people who can analyze the game or you quickly run out of meaningful things to talk about.

Just my 2 cents.
Frugalicious
Profile Joined June 2010
United States121 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:34:00
May 13 2011 07:31 GMT
#95
On May 13 2011 16:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
and honestly his point about the amount of casual viewers there are?

Who knows that for sure?

Who is taking a poll w/ every major cast asking the skill level of these players?

Maybe the majority of the viewers are the more hardcore?


When has that been true for any type of eSport or sport? Casuals have always been the dominant form of viewer-ship. WC3 for a example was difficult to understand for casuals and could not pick up a similar momentum to SC1 which was significantly easier to watch and understand. That is just one example of many. Unfortunately I do not have any support at hand to back up such claim, but I feel it is near common sense for anyone who is a spectator themselves of Sports or eSports.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 13 2011 07:32 GMT
#96
On May 13 2011 16:23 IronMonocle wrote:
Yahzee uh i mean Totalbiscuit needs to understand that this is not American Football he is casting but a deep strategic game of Starcraft 2. You don't have people yelling when someone makes a good play in a lot of sports especially strategic ones like chess.

You should listen to more Korean casts of BW games. There is a reason why quite a few people get riled up and start complaining whenever the only livestream of a match are from Chinese casters talking over the Korean commentary. There is a reason why PLAYGUUU, STORMUUU, REAVER REAVER REAVER are some of the most recognizable semi-memes in the SC community.

I do agree with TB comments.

Idra is a fantastic analytical colour commentator. However, him alone cannot make a game entertaining. Analysis is only part of the entertainment, and I doubt that it alone can be a complete package in terms of entertainment. There needs to be that voice that can funnel energy into the audience through tone and play-by-play excitement in addition to the analytical voice.

Of course, forced passion is distracting, but when the caster fully masters that passion, the results are just as important as genius analysis. Tastosis does this brilliantly well, as does Day[9] whenever he is solo-casting or dual-casting.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Loving Memory
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
May 13 2011 07:32 GMT
#97
Isn't this title a little sensationalist? He's addressing another piece that talked about how we need more analytical casters in our leagues, and he agrees with that. At the same time, he points out that we need a healthy mix of both casting styles.
He also talks about how he is working to address the current lack of analytical casters in the scene, which is pretty commendable.

All in all, he makes a lot of good points, and I agree with most of them.

By the way, here's a link to the original article: http://gosu.com/2011/05/some-advice-to-casters-what-idra-brings-to-nasls-table/
You might want to include this next time.
Coolwhip
Profile Joined March 2011
927 Posts
May 13 2011 07:32 GMT
#98
Play by play casting like TB does doesn't work for SC2. Too many things happen at once resulting in super fast casting that starts to destract from the game instead of adding to it. SC2 isn't a horserace. I much prefer the 'insightful' style like Idra does (and many others do). If Idra stopped acting like a 12 year old he would be a great caster.
pbjsandwich
Profile Joined August 2010
United States443 Posts
May 13 2011 07:33 GMT
#99
On May 13 2011 16:30 Zeke50100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 16:25 pbjsandwich wrote:
IdrA is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion.

this part just kills me. If Idra isn't a good caster then what does that makes TB?


Did you read the entire post? >.<

yeah he's just defending himself on points people criticize him on

bottom line is most people in the community would rather listen to idra than TB

he jelly

User was warned for this post
Zeles
Profile Joined October 2010
United States335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:34:41
May 13 2011 07:34 GMT
#100
TB's goal is to provide an environment for casual gamers and fresh faces alike to enjoy the game.

Unfortunately - most of the people deeply immersed in the game that enjoy watching competitive play are far less than casual, and so his casts come off as annoying and slightly obnoxious. This is really frustrating to deal with and showed up most notably in the IPL where he dumb-downed the game even though the majority of the audience was more than likely on another level.
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