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To me, IdrA is just Artosis without any vocal flare. That's not supposed to be a knock on IdrA because he doesn't intend to be a caster. He does provide amazing insight, but he's just not all that exciting. To an extent I like listening to DjWheat and TB in that they are entertaining and have a lot of passion for the game that comes out in their voices, but I do feel that their game sense means that I'm missing out on some intrigue as a player.
However, I think that the knowledgeable players and commentators go way too far sometimes. Like Painuser during the EG team league cast. WAY too much time spent saying "so-and-so is going for... ummm... X strategy... or... um.... let's see... it could be... Y". Commentators should be there to predict what the player IS doing. No good sport works that way. We're not expecting you to be a psychic. We want to know what the player's options are, and we may want to know what YOU would do in the same situation. This gives us a baseline. Something we can check the play against in our own mind. When we notice diversions from what you tell us, it sparks our interest. The player then is playing "uniquely".
Telling people that game is "over" is also a bit of a buzzkill. You can build suspense by continually tallying how behind the player is and really emphasizing the nearly impossible task ahead of them. Certainly if it's laughable how behiind they are, no need to sugar coat it. But if a player's attack fails and the defender counters, no need to tell us as the army marches across the map that the player cannot defend it. We probably know that, but we still want to see the stomping and enjoy what little tension there is. We don't care if you're psychic and correctly saw the ending of the game. We don't really care if you can predict when the GG will happen.
I personally just feel that too many casters care WAY too much about predicting what will happen instead of just letting the viewers know what may happen and letting us watch it unfold.
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I think he is wrong. That's all I feel is warranted here.
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TotalBiscuit just does not belong in the SC2 community.
He saw it as a burgeoning new business venture and forced himself onto the scene due to money rather than having the actual game striking his interest.
I think that is why a lot of people see through his charade and see him for what he really is, a money grubber. He's just so fake and irritating, and sees all the haters as just trolls, which is horrible because it only fuels his nonsensical internet personality.
TB is just bad for the SC2 community.
I'd rather have someone who's good at the game commentate than him, I don't give a shit what format they choose, I want someone who knows what they are talking about.
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Totalbiscuit telling someone else "No, you're casting wrong, you should be more like me" is just the funniest thing in the world.
Idra doesn't scream and shout, and you know what? that's just fine. I get that TB built up his fanbase on WoW players, who no one in the world could possibly have a good thing to say about, but SC2 players in general are not satisfied with "he's excited. and he's SO BRITISH! NOW I'M EXCITED TOO!!! YEAHHHH!"
We care about what's going on in the game, and we'll create our own excitement, thanks. I have never heard anyone cast as insightful as Idra. The guy calls a game down to perfection 10 minutes before it ends, with the exact strategy, what players are going to do, what will happen, and who will win. He does this correctly 9 out of 10 times, too. And you know why that's a good style? Because it gives a whole lot of context. You aren't seeing this game from your own personal point of view anymore, but you're seeing it from the pro's point of view. Idra tells you what a pro sees in that situation.
Totalbiscuit is one of the worst SC2 casters in my opinion, and the hilarity of him having the nerve to criticize Idra this extensively screams, to me anyway, that he's extremely jealous. Then again, after some of TB's statements, I've always felt his entire casting career has been nothing more than cashgrab.
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I don't see how anyone could disagree with the the need for a play-by-play coupled with a more analytical co-caster, I just don't understand Oo That's how every sport is commentated, I would never watch for example soccer wc if it had no play-by-play. If the focus was on the strategy, yeah i'd learn more about soccer, but that's not why im watching, I watch it for the entertainment. (Insert any competetive sport/game in place of soccer)
The analytical co-caster is ofcourse also needed, especially for situations that the play-by play doesn't understand, and to bring discussion to the cast when the game is moving slow. They should also jump in when the play-by-play is misinterpeting a situation, because nothing ruins the experience more for me then being told something that even I, a guy who hasn't played since january, can see is totally wrong.
You guys seem to think that the only people who watch starcraft are try-hard master league players but that just isn't the case! And btw isn't it contradictory? You say you want the analytical casts and not this "noob friendly" stuff, and yet you can't seem to analyze the game yourselves?
The casting is there to bring excitment and to give a casual viewer a basic understanding of what's going on and why. It's not some inside the game replay analysis for you to learn from.
I haven't watched the idra commentaries and im sure he'd make a decent analytical caster, but all the hate agains TB is sickening... Granted I didn't like his style when i first heard him, but i grew to like him during, was it reddit invitational? I don't remember, some tournament where he casted a full day, and after that day when i listened to the more analytical casters do solo casts, it was just slow and boring.
Also look at Tastosis, they do exacty this, Tasteless as the play by play and Artosis as the analyst and they seem to be the most popular duo atm.
Well i've rambled on long enough, don't even know if i make any sense since i've just been writing without thinking much about how to get my point across...
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I find IdrA's plethora of game knowledge refreshing and enlightening.
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On May 13 2011 20:47 Parnass wrote:
Just to back up TBs point.
My Roommate does not play games a lot, if at all. he has SOME rts knowledge from LANs way back when, but his knowledge of sc2 is very limited.yet he LOVES watching sc2 especially when cast by play by play casters like tb. he enjoys the analytical part as well, but for him husky and tb are the far more enjoyable casters to watch. He likes watching me play as well and i always explain to him what im doing.
my point is: the tb bashing here is completely immature and unwarranted. this elitist attitude is actually hampering sc2s progression as an esport. soccer is watched by millions even if they dont play at all or are only very casual players. this is also because of the commentary provided by play by play commentators. tbs criticism is completely legitimate and even though i dont watch him that often because i prefer day 9 and other more analytical casters huskys and tbs popularity on youtube should be evidence enough that these casters do WONDERS for the advancement of sc2 as an esport.
I think you are completely correct. I for one never played BW, i only recently picked up SC2. And at first i just played it on occasion, but it was when i found huskys, hd's and psy's channels on youtube and started watching them cast that i got more and more into this game. Their casting made it really fun, and now i'm pretty much an addict, watching everything i can get my hands on, from VODs to streams. And the more people like me, who pay to watch the GSL and NASL, add more viewers on streams to get more commercials, the better for the sc2 scene, right? More money = more esports.
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On May 13 2011 20:43 JitnikoVi wrote:
i was never too fond of totalbiscuit, he comes off as rude and arrogant in his casts, ive noticed this many times, and its the sole reason i dont like watching him
anyone else get that vibe?
Nope ... he certainly isnt as rude and arrogant as iNcontrol, IdrA and Artosis in their non-commentating podcasts. You must not have watched any casts of TotalBiscuit at all, because you accuse him of being rude and arrogant in his casts. Any "harsh words" are only ever written in posts or said in interviews but NEVER in an actual cast or show and most of the time they are quite true. All that is needed is for the fanboys - IdrAs in this case - to take a deep breath and analyze what has really been said and not what they think has been said.
IdrA is bad as a "primary commentator", but great as an "assistant analytical commentator" ... The primary (play-by-play) commentator carries you through the game and is only assisted by the analyst. Sadly IdrA's droning monotone voice tends to turn off any excitement level whenever he speaks. That is sad but true, but it could be changed. Exciting commentary is NEEDED to make the casts more appealing to non-players / casuals and ultimately to succeed as an eSport. Arrogant people who deny this are the real baddies when it comes to the growth of professional SC2.
TotalBiscuit also admitted his own shortcomings in the lack of an analysis for casts ... remedied by adding d'Apollo for season 2 of the IPL ... if they are chosen to do these casts. IdrA could try and work on his manner of speaking if he thinks about casting more often in the future (and that could be the next step after he is done with his professional gaming career). I think that is all that TB wanted to say.
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I personally prefer an analytical caster to get the brain thinking. Artosis is both analytical and play-by-play which is why he's one of the best casters; he appeals to everyone.
I also prefer IdrA's analysis as opposed to TB yelling in my face about something which I can see with my own eyes.
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Where are all these "casual" viewers that everyone's talking about? And why are they being treated like magpies, only attracted to shiny objects. If I were just getting in to the SC2 scene, I would like to be educated, rather than alienated and left out.
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On May 13 2011 21:09 HoldenR wrote:
Totalbiscuit telling someone else "No, you're casting wrong, you should be more like me" is just the funniest thing in the world.
Totalbiscuit is one of the worst SC2 casters in my opinion, and the hilarity of him having the nerve to criticize Idra this extensively screams, to me anyway, that he's extremely jealous. Then again, after some of TB's statements, I've always felt his entire casting career has been nothing more than cashgrab.
Weird how people like Day9 DJWheat and chill have said publically that TB is one of the best casters out there ....
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Oh wonderful, 28 pages of nonsense, mostly by people who didn't actually read the post.
I stand by everything I said and would like to add now that he is also unprofessional and biased, based on his performance on NASL. I would agree with Complexity gaming's statement on the matter. It is not a caster's place to shit on a player over personal disagreements on air, that makes you a rank amateur.
Do you see me shitting on IdrA during casts regardless of the nonsense he has said about me in public? No.
No apologies will be made because none are required and I'm not going anywhere.
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i think hes doing a good job, idra at least knows the game in and out before it is about to happen...gretorp kinda just makes missed called and fumbles over whats happening
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On May 13 2011 21:12 Drteeth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 21:09 HoldenR wrote:
Totalbiscuit telling someone else "No, you're casting wrong, you should be more like me" is just the funniest thing in the world.
Totalbiscuit is one of the worst SC2 casters in my opinion, and the hilarity of him having the nerve to criticize Idra this extensively screams, to me anyway, that he's extremely jealous. Then again, after some of TB's statements, I've always felt his entire casting career has been nothing more than cashgrab. Weird how people like Day9 DJWheat and chill have said publically that TB is one of the best casters out there ....
weird how some people have their own opinions that aren't influenced by people who are not directly linked to the topic
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On May 13 2011 21:12 Drteeth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 21:09 HoldenR wrote:
Totalbiscuit telling someone else "No, you're casting wrong, you should be more like me" is just the funniest thing in the world.
Totalbiscuit is one of the worst SC2 casters in my opinion, and the hilarity of him having the nerve to criticize Idra this extensively screams, to me anyway, that he's extremely jealous. Then again, after some of TB's statements, I've always felt his entire casting career has been nothing more than cashgrab. Weird how people like Day9 DJWheat and chill have said publically that TB is one of the best casters out there ....
I get the sense they are just being polite. It's a way for them to get points with him and make themselves look good for saying such things.
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http://www.justin.tv/totalbiscuit/b/285745024
Ahahahaha, he casted his own comment. Great fun. 
I also agree with his point, Idra doesn't make a game exciting, it isn't his job either.
I tend to judge a caster by not watching the video. If I can't tell how the game is going without the video it is a bad cast. An analytical can "show" the game very well, if done well and not going off on long tangents.
edit, I even "watch" a lot of sc2 while being in game playing a custom map. Not being able to tell how things are going then means I switch to something else. It shows how great day9 daily is for example. You don't have to watch the video, it is still good. It is better with video, but not needed.
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On May 13 2011 21:13 scatmango2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 21:12 Drteeth wrote:On May 13 2011 21:09 HoldenR wrote:
Totalbiscuit telling someone else "No, you're casting wrong, you should be more like me" is just the funniest thing in the world.
Totalbiscuit is one of the worst SC2 casters in my opinion, and the hilarity of him having the nerve to criticize Idra this extensively screams, to me anyway, that he's extremely jealous. Then again, after some of TB's statements, I've always felt his entire casting career has been nothing more than cashgrab. Weird how people like Day9 DJWheat and chill have said publically that TB is one of the best casters out there .... I get the sense they are just being polite. It's a way for them to get points with him and make themselves look good for saying such things.
Really? Really? Don't be ridiculous. So Day and wheat NEED to make themselves look good??
Sigh ....
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I actually learned plenty from IdrA's analytical breakdown during his casts >.>
He's not as enthusiastic and engaging as TotalBiscuit, but IdrA is far more knowledgeable and can actually explain in greater detail the understanding of a pro-gamer vs. pro-gamer match, because he himself is a top pro-gamer.
A commentator having that ability is fantastic, in my opinion. Granted, I can see how different people may want different things from a caster, but that's something I specifically value. But pair IdrA up with someone who has insane personality (like iNcontroL), and you're set.
That being said, how many times has IdrA casted matches compared to actual commentators? IdrA's just doing this as a guest caster. I think it's a little odd to point out someone sucks at something when they have very little experience doing it- especially when they're far more popular doing the thing they actually do.
EDIT: Lost some respect for TB after reading this.
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IdrA: calm, analytical, very good at explaining whats going on and not afraid to give his opinion on something wether it be good or bad.
Totalbiscuit: constantly shouting nonsense, very low level knowledge of the game, not qualified to give opinions on most games.
I must be missing something. It's not my intention to flame but Totalbiscuits commentating has put me off watching so many games I wanted to see in IPL and other tournaments because I cannot stand his constant shouting and his often wrong analysis.
At least with a guy like HD his knowledge might not be top notch but hes not shouting all the time shoving himself down your throat.
Someone like Totalbiscuit ruins games for a lot of viewers, and would be best suited sticking to casting on youtube where people can choose to watch or not, instead of major tournaments.
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IdrA isn't out to become a good caster. He provides his expert opinion.
I'd rather have someone who is quiet and "stumbles on his words" but knows what he is talking about then, someone who is loud, obnoxious and doesn't have a clue how to cast SC2, but has become famous for his casting because he screams alot and because he has a good caster voice.
Sorry, TotalBiscuit.
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EPT
