GSTL more exciting than individual GSL? - Page 5

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lazyfeet

United States468 Posts

March 23 2011 17:27 GMT

#81

I would enjoy more if not both times oGs got knock out so fast.

Frankon

3054 Posts

March 23 2011 17:28 GMT

#82

On March 24 2011 02:27 lazyfeet wrote:
I would enjoy more if not both times oGs got knock out so fast.

oGs is Real Madrit... Lots of stars with no plan on how to play and who to send or what strategy to use.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

March 23 2011 17:29 GMT

#83

Funny story, a lot of this has to do with Bo1 format. Bo1 tourneys are so exciting because they are unpredictable and huge upsets can come with ease.

When you get teams involved, you get rivalries, more hype, and a more organized structure added to the Bo1 excitement. That's where all this is coming from. I just hope more teams either move to or are formed in Korea so we can see this league expand.

EDIT: Woot! 500th post and Dragoon!

-Frog-

United States514 Posts

March 23 2011 17:31 GMT

#84

Proleague was more interesting in Broodwar as well. Choosing players based on the maps and their opponents etc adds an entirely new dynamic to the game that is great to watch and to think about. I hope we can get something like this in North America - possibly if/when the NASL is a success.

HEROwithNOlegacy

United States850 Posts

March 23 2011 17:32 GMT

#85

On March 24 2011 00:06 Shinobi1982 wrote:
If people wanted teamgames there would be pro 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 tournaments. Do you currently see any? Face it the top players in each team will mostly dislike the idea where mediocre players would love the idea to have an opportunity to win titles with their team based game.

In the end you will get shoved single player or team games by the biggest organization. And either you love it or hate it, you will have to accept it. Imo Sc/2 is a single player competitive game.

Will probably get a lot flames for saying this...

User was warned for this post

Do you even follow the GSL or GSTL? It is not team games.... It is the teams in a "clan war" and it is very entertaining, however they both have their place and time and I enjoy both. Let's face it the more sc2 games the better!

KristianJS

2107 Posts

March 23 2011 17:33 GMT

#86

I really hope (and expect) GOM to drastically increase the team league in future seasons to be more like SC1 Proleague. There's a reason the Proleague Finals was always the biggest SC1 event in Korea in terms of audience!!

kataa

United Kingdom384 Posts

March 23 2011 17:35 GMT

#87

I would really prefer they drop the individual leagues entirely for the moment in favour of a full GSTL season like in Proleague. Being able to see full teams, the camaraderie, the rivalry and all that 'good jazz' just gets me more.

Individual leagues involve less upsets, less drama and fewer "WHO IS THIS GUY AND WHY IS HE OWNING EVERYONE" moments. There is more room for creative strats aimed at taking out a single player, and other such meta game elements that make it so much more fulfilling to watch.

Tyri

Germany453 Posts

March 23 2011 17:52 GMT

#88

On March 24 2011 02:35 kataa wrote:
I would really prefer they drop the individual leagues entirely for the moment in favour of a full GSTL season like in Proleague. Being able to see full teams, the camaraderie, the rivalry and all that 'good jazz' just gets me more.

Individual leagues involve less upsets, less drama and fewer "WHO IS THIS GUY AND WHY IS HE OWNING EVERYONE" moments. There is more room for creative strats aimed at taking out a single player, and other such meta game elements that make it so much more fulfilling to watch.

exactly, i would loooove to see some BW style team leagues

Shinobi1982

1605 Posts

March 23 2011 17:52 GMT

#89

Revoking my "last post on this topic" to explain some things for people who are confused or unable to see the bigger picture.

The whole Proleague in Korea is sponsor based and without the sponsors there would be no "pro" competition whatsoever. For sponsors in order to receive something back from their investment is much easier for them to sell teamleague competition with drama (which average Joe diggs) than it is to sell single player tournament (less drama, more competition). Now put yourself in the mind of a pro player. You are on Team (Insert Name) and you have 2 options. 1) to compete in a teamleague (backed up by sponsors) which will secure your monthly salary + more. 2) you compete in singleplayer tournaments without sponsors for lesser payday (because lets face it sponsors will not invest eternally into something that is not popular for average Joe to watch).

So will a SC pro play the game he loves and get payed good for it? Or will he try to only play pure competitively without a secure payday?

Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

We've been shoved SC teamleague games since the beginning because it is in best interest of sponsors. Yes the players get payed well but if they could choose to get payed well AND play true competition, what will they choose? And guess what, even if you don't like something, if you constantly get swarmed by it you will learn to love it. Thats the SC Proleague for you in a nutshell.

Littlebootz

United States108 Posts

March 23 2011 17:57 GMT

#90

For some reason the games are 100% better when it's team games. Players who stood out in GSTL fizzled when they went back to 1v1.

Ownos

United States2147 Posts

March 23 2011 18:41 GMT

#91

Team leagues give clans a reason to exist and train together. It's really awkward to have to compete individually and potentially have to go at it with a training partner. Otherwise, there isn't any reason at all to train with a team. Why not train with Nestea or Squirtle if you're in oGs? I'm sure lots of players do that. As a player I like SC2 as individual competition. For me I hate having to depend on lesser players and I'm sure better players would hate me too for depending on them. It can be really frustrating. Imagine if you're MC and beat almost all their players only to have the rest of your team choke and lose the match.

That said I do like the potential to see more different players. To see guys like Bomber play, even if it's just for 1 game. That and the format is more than a BO3 which I think is too little to clearly determine the better player... though the bigger maps alleviate that worry a bit. And there isn't much build up for excitement.

Snackysnacks

United States411 Posts

March 23 2011 19:15 GMT

#92

On March 24 2011 02:52 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

Most pro players SHOULD play for the fanbase, and the money (to keep playing for the fanbase)
There will never be a true top player, one who dominates all. And as you keep watching the gsl, you see alot of players fluctuate.

Its just really hard to get into, and you see from final match posts about seating (cant fill full stadiums) of just plain faceroll matches.

Skipping details, team leagues is what this game needs.

mapthesoul

Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts

March 23 2011 19:18 GMT

#93

Yeah, i like GSTL a lot more.

HowSoOnIsNow

Canada480 Posts

March 23 2011 19:24 GMT

#94

I think that since the GSTL is so short, people enjoy it more. When (hopefully) there will be a proleague in SC2, people are going to connect with the player more. Team kills in the GSL will take a new level. The Dramas in the GSL will be amplified and it will add excitement to an already exciting event.

Basically, we need both to complete the circle.

Dromar

United States2145 Posts

March 23 2011 19:24 GMT

#95

IMO part of it is what makes the group stages so great to watch: more matchups of different players. The fact is, a Bo7 between 2 players can easily lose its excitement, especially if the first 2 or 3 games were one-sided. It's just "ok this guy's gonna win it."

But in GSTL, if one player rolls another, he has to play a different player, who may have a special strategy prepared. You never know how it's going to end until the end.

Clicker

United States1012 Posts

March 23 2011 19:26 GMT

#96

The GSTL is incredibly entertaining but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's better than the standard GSL tournament. They both have their place, and I'm one of those that'd like to see it more often.

shire

United States405 Posts

March 23 2011 19:29 GMT

#97

On March 23 2011 23:49 xza wrote:
I think GSTL should be a full league where you get all the teams that are currently in GSTL and add Team Liquid and MVP (Genius, Guineapig,DRG's team) it could be exciting to watch. We've always been hearing about these awesome players from respective teams who are so good but just aren't in GSL code A or S so maybe this could be a chance for those guys to show that they're living up to their hype?

well teamliquid in GSTL won't happen anytime soon. teamliquid is slightly lower in points wise to IM to join GSTL. However, teamliquid does not have enough players in south korea to participate in GSTL.

sad to say, we won't see jinro or huk all kill in GSTL in the finals until teamliquid atleast have 7 players participating in South Korea.

kvn4444

1510 Posts

March 23 2011 19:32 GMT

#98

gstl has produced consistently awesome games, as well as the drama of pulling through for your team in a ace match situation etc etc. I guess because they can send in a player who's good at that certain match up or whatever. whereas in the individual leagues you can have players who are good but bad at mirror matches or something which produced lackluster one sided games. i'm personally liking team leagues more now compared to individual leagues.

se7en247

United States487 Posts

March 23 2011 19:39 GMT

#99

On March 24 2011 02:52 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Revoking my "last post on this topic" to explain some things for people who are confused or unable to see the bigger picture.

The whole Proleague in Korea is sponsor based and without the sponsors there would be no "pro" competition whatsoever. For sponsors in order to receive something back from their investment is much easier for them to sell teamleague competition with drama (which average Joe diggs) than it is to sell single player tournament (less drama, more competition). Now put yourself in the mind of a pro player. You are on Team (Insert Name) and you have 2 options. 1) to compete in a teamleague (backed up by sponsors) which will secure your monthly salary + more. 2) you compete in singleplayer tournaments without sponsors for lesser payday (because lets face it sponsors will not invest eternally into something that is not popular for average Joe to watch).

So will a SC pro play the game he loves and get payed good for it? Or will he try to only play pure competitively without a secure payday?

Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

We've been shoved SC teamleague games since the beginning because it is in best interest of sponsors. Yes the players get payed well but if they could choose to get payed well AND play true competition, what will they choose? And guess what, even if you don't like something, if you constantly get swarmed by it you will learn to love it. Thats the SC Proleague for you in a nutshell.

Most BW progamers prefer Proleague over individual leagues.