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lucasesper
Brazil181 Posts
MMA said he practid Dual Sight the most and had 70% of his practice time focused agains MVP. Strategies like this means that a team with depth can go even against a team with stars, even in the all-kill format, as long as they use their depths to train snipers and win the mind games in choosing players and orders. Feels like Pokemon. : P | ||
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
On March 24 2011 00:06 Shinobi1982 wrote: If people wanted teamgames there would be pro 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 tournaments. Do you currently see any? Face it the top players in each team will mostly dislike the idea where mediocre players would love the idea to have an opportunity to win titles with their team based game. In the end you will get shoved single player or team games by the biggest organization. And either you love it or hate it, you will have to accept it. Imo Sc/2 is a single player competitive game. Will probably get a lot flames for saying this... User was warned for this post Lollllllllllllllll, i vote for gstl, but my only wish is that the ace matches were bo3 instead of bo1 (just cus i wanna see more games). but then again, bo1 probably heightens the suspense, more so than a bo3. | ||
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Mafs
Canada458 Posts
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Xursian
Canada94 Posts
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AllTheWay
United States50 Posts
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graph1k
United States97 Posts
I think GSTL games are more fun to watch from the casual watchers POV because there is less pressure on the individual to do well, and more freedom to do builds/ideas that they wouldn't try in an individual league. If they lose in the GSL they are out till next season or dropped to Code A/Out of Code A. In the GSTL they have other teammates to rely on and some of the lesser known players get their time to shine as well. It creates an environment where you cannot practice against a single individual and plan out specific builds. It makes for more spontaneity and creativity. This is why a team like oGs, who I believe has one of the best individual lineups, doesn't do so well, their players just play too safe and "standard" while the other teams with players people may have NEVER heard of on their roster go out and get all-kills. The different leagues cater to different styles and players who excel in the GSL may do horrible in the GSTL, vice versa. This is why IM consistently does so good, they have both types of players and know when to use them. Personally I love both, GSTL is fun to watch for the creativity and awesome games (oGs vs Slayers game 1, even though I was rooting for oGs I loved to see the Zerg take the ENTIRE map). While I watch the GSL because I also like watching "boring" games where both players or just one are executing a build perfectly and just playing technically very well. I know I will get lots of hate but I loved MVP vs MKP finals as MVP really showed how to shut down MKP style. I also loved MC vs July as MC just shut down July's style and never really let him get aggressive (except game 3) | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
I don't even need to quote IdrAs last interview and the guy has at least 3 times bigger fanbase than any other player on TL.net. He sums it up pretty nice: "Cut the bs I am not here to entertain people". And if you don't like the answer then its BM and drama gone too far, lol. Also the moment GOM decides to mainly focus on GSTL instead of GSL that will be the end of foreign action in Korea. Think about all the foreigners who have an ambition to play in Korea and the ones already playing in Korea. | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On March 26 2011 10:00 Shinobi1982 wrote: People still quoting my first post :D? The fact that I made a poor choice of word stands (couple it with my post on page 5 for more explanation). Just because I have not been active on this forum does not mean I have not been following the scene for years. I feel sorry for some of you who only have the entertainment part of SC/2 in mind. Mostly the ones who tune into streams to only have a LT or live chat on the side and chatting about the game rather than watching and understanding what is happening in the game. And unfortunately thats the majority of the people that are watching the streams. Think about the "top of the food-chain" players for once. Would an Idra or Morrow allow someone else to take the steering wheel on their careers? You will never hear a competitive "top of the foodchain" player say they are truly excited to play in a teamleague format (unless coupled with some serious $). Will they agree to play? YES (because of sponsors). Will they like the teamgames? dragged out yeeeeees/suuuure + /looking away. I don't even need to quote IdrAs last interview and the guy has at least 3 times bigger fanbase than any other player on TL.net. He sums it up pretty nice: "Cut the bs I am not here to entertain people". And if you don't like the answer then its BM and drama gone too far, lol. Also the moment GOM decides to mainly focus on GSTL instead of GSL that will be the end of foreign action in Korea. Think about all the foreigners who have an ambition to play in Korea and the ones already playing in Korea. you blame talking about GSTL being 2v2-3v3-4v4's on poor choice of words? | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On March 26 2011 10:04 lindn wrote: you blame talking about GSTL being 2v2-3v3-4v4's on poor choice of words? People playing 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 are wasting time. Proleague/Gstl is a deviation from true (2v2...) teamgames to make it more entertaining. Again SC/2 is a single player competitive game. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
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Musou
1375 Posts
On March 26 2011 10:00 Shinobi1982 wrote: People still quoting my first post :D? The fact that I made a poor choice of word stands (couple it with my post on page 5 for more explanation). Just because I have not been active on this forum does not mean I have not been following the scene for years. I feel sorry for some of you who only have the entertainment part of SC/2 in mind. Mostly the ones who tune into streams to only have a LT or live chat on the side and chatting about the game rather than watching and understanding what is happening in the game. And unfortunately thats the majority of the people that are watching the streams. Think about the "top of the food-chain" players for once. Would an Idra or Morrow allow someone else to take the steering wheel on their careers? You will never hear a competitive "top of the foodchain" player say they are truly excited to play in a teamleague format (unless coupled with some serious $). Will they agree to play? YES (because of sponsors). Will they like the teamgames? dragged out yeeeeees/suuuure + /looking away. I don't even need to quote IdrAs last interview and the guy has at least 3 times bigger fanbase than any other player on TL.net. He sums it up pretty nice: "Cut the bs I am not here to entertain people". And if you don't like the answer then its BM and drama gone too far, lol. Also the moment GOM decides to mainly focus on GSTL instead of GSL that will be the end of foreign action in Korea. Think about all the foreigners who have an ambition to play in Korea and the ones already playing in Korea. It's pretty obvious that you're desperately trying to cover up your failure and lack of understanding of how the scene works. The only reason that the very best players would prefer individual league over team right now is because it gives far more benefits to the individual. This is speaking strictly from a western point of view. As people who were raised in Asian society would know, there tends to be more of a focus on the group over the individual in East Asian cultures. Personal glory comes second to team glory. In addition, the structure of the GSL reward system as compared to the GSTL places heavy emphasis on individual performance. You can mark my words. If official teams are formed with sponsors paying salaries to players that have contracts, with the tournaments offering smaller prize pools as is done in BW, then players would more likely prefer to play team leagues over individual. Winner typically receives 40m KRW (~40k USD) for first place, and 20m KRW (~20k USD) second place in a starleague and tournaments are held every 3 months rather than every month. PL winning team gets a prize of 80m+ KRW (~80k USD) for a once a year championship, with an additional 10m KRW (~10k USD) for Winner's League. When players are paid an actual salary like the TBLS, who earn upwards of 200m KRW (200k USD) per year, the prize money from a tournament is just an extra bonus, and the players have far more incentive to play and win in team leagues than in individuals. You'll notice in interviews how players always mention that team leagues are more important than individual. This is not only due to the way they were brought up, but also because they understand the feeling of winning when their teams are relying on them. Of course, the individual leagues are important as well in establishing who the star players are for each team, but the team leagues are where all the drama and excitement come in. There's a big difference in winning or losing a game/set when it's only for yourself, but when you've let your team down because you lose or helped your team win, it's a whole different feeling. On March 26 2011 10:08 Shinobi1982 wrote: People playing 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 are wasting time. Proleague/Gstl is a deviation from true (2v2...) teamgames to make it more entertaining. Again SC/2 is a single player competitive game. You're even more wrong here. Proleague included 2v2 games from its very inception until the 08-09 season began, when it switched purely to 1v1 from 1v1 and 2v2 games. It was considered an important part of the league. In fact, Nestea was a 2v2 player for KT with Reach. Reach and Yellow (who were well-known 1v1 players) also made formidable 2v2 players. To say that 2v2 players are wasting time is to ignore the history of Brood War. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On March 26 2011 10:08 Shinobi1982 wrote: People playing 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 are wasting time. Proleague/Gstl is a deviation from true (2v2...) teamgames to make it more entertaining. Again SC/2 is a single player competitive game. I'm so confused. Do you still not know what GSTL is? | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On March 26 2011 10:18 Musou wrote: You can mark my words. If official teams are formed with sponsors paying salaries to players that have contracts, with the tournaments offering smaller prize pools as is done in BW, then players would more likely prefer to play team leagues over individual. Winner typically receives 40m KRW (~40k USD) for first place, and 20m KRW (~20k USD) second place in a starleague and tournaments are held every 3 months rather than every month. PL winning team gets a prize of 80m+ KRW (~80k USD) for a once a year championship, with an additional 10m KRW (~10k USD) for Winner's League. When players are paid an actual salary like the TBLS, who earn upwards of 200m KRW (200k USD) per year, the prize money from a tournament is just an extra bonus, and the players have far more incentive to play and win in team leagues than in individuals. You'll notice in interviews how players always mention that team leagues are more important than individual. This is not only due to the way they were brought up, but also because they understand the feeling of winning when their teams are relying on them. Of course, the individual leagues are important as well in establishing who the star players are for each team, but the team leagues are where all the drama and excitement come in. There's a big difference in winning or losing a game/set when it's only for yourself, but when you've let your team down because you lose or helped your team win, it's a whole different feeling. Nothing I disagree with, SC2 will eventually hit the same road as SC/BW. It's just that I enjoy more to see skill-wise 1v1 bo7/9 game than entertainment that comes with proleague. Comparing with soccer for example, everyone who follows it knows who Pele and Cruyff are. The same people, do they know what team those players played for? Who cares at this moment (no)? And thats just a fine example of arguably the most popular teamsport in the world. Tho SC/BW/2 is a single player competitive game made into something that is not what its meant to be. And in the end you are building your own legacy not the one of the team you are in (sure to some extend team gets a decent amount of credit). If a player owns up in a tournament, on his fan page you will almost never see props given to the team. Almost exclusively players himself gets all the props. Guess what I'm trying to say is SC is not meant to be a teamgame, its forced upon for entertainment value. **As you can see English is not my native language, I apologize for blatant grammar errors.** On March 26 2011 10:20 DannyJ wrote: I'm so confused. Do you still not know what GSTL is? How can I say this politely... Have you cleaned your bike lately? If not, you know what to do. | ||
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elementz
United States281 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
The majority of competitive balance may be centered around 1v1 since 2v2 would be a nightmare to fully balance, but its still has its unique flavor to it that a lot of people enjoy. It is also a little less stressful I think when you have a partner you can trust and work with instead of being alone. With that said GSTL is just a massive 1v1 knockout-fest and really seems to be more a platform for high level competitive experimentation and allowing newer or slightly weaker players to earn some real life tournament experience in studio and under pressure. It also has a bit more personality to it I would say, making it more enjoyable to watch, even though skill isn't being definitively tested between two players due to the 1v1 1 game knockout nature. But I guess you could say that what strategy is missing there is made up for with the metagame strategy of choosing who to play when, who to snipe who, etc. | ||
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leetchaos
United States395 Posts
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
My only complaints with it are (and I don't want to take anything away because I do find the GSTL awesome): - Having 2 teams per night makes it a really, really long cast. Especially if they both go to 7 games. Although this might be OK by itself, it's made worse by: - There's a huge delay between each game. A HUGE delay. As in, up to 30 minutes sometimes. As much as Tastosis is cool, you can't expect them to fill such huge gaps over and over again. They need some sort of solution to this - and I don't mean better filler. Maybe they should use 4 booths and get them set up for each team's prospective next player (players should give the manager their settings so he can set up sensitivity, hot keys, sound levels, whatever else the players need to customise that always takes so long. That way who the team will pick next isn't spoilered). | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Very high quality entertainment indeed, though I love GSL and GSTL both equally. I like individual leagues because in my opinion it gives a better, or at least clearer, view of the players' overall skill. p.s.: Code A May is going to be insane. | ||
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