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GSTL more exciting than individual GSL? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
March 23 2011 19:42 GMT
#101
i love the gstl
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 19:49:51
March 23 2011 19:45 GMT
#102
On March 24 2011 02:52 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Revoking my "last post on this topic" to explain some things for people who are confused or unable to see the bigger picture.

The whole Proleague in Korea is sponsor based and without the sponsors there would be no "pro" competition whatsoever. For sponsors in order to receive something back from their investment is much easier for them to sell teamleague competition with drama (which average Joe diggs) than it is to sell single player tournament (less drama, more competition). Now put yourself in the mind of a pro player. You are on Team (Insert Name) and you have 2 options. 1) to compete in a teamleague (backed up by sponsors) which will secure your monthly salary + more. 2) you compete in singleplayer tournaments without sponsors for lesser payday (because lets face it sponsors will not invest eternally into something that is not popular for average Joe to watch).

So will a SC pro play the game he loves and get payed good for it? Or will he try to only play pure competitively without a secure payday?

Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

We've been shoved SC teamleague games since the beginning because it is in best interest of sponsors. Yes the players get payed well but if they could choose to get payed well AND play true competition, what will they choose? And guess what, even if you don't like something, if you constantly get swarmed by it you will learn to love it. Thats the SC Proleague for you in a nutshell.
A few hours ago you thought GSTL was "2v2/3v3/4v4." I don't think you should be telling OTHER people what leagues are in a nutshell

Admit your goof and move on Right now you're reminding me of those TV characters who trip over a bench and then try to act like they did it on purpose.
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 19:56:54
March 23 2011 19:55 GMT
#103
i think next year GOM should alternate, like 2 GSL then one GSTL (but of the same lenght as GSL)
Each team play each team, one and half month duration like the GSL (or something like that), with an appropriate (GSL like) prize pool.
The added benefit would be that the final would always be awesome and never disappointing (like 3 of the 5 GSL finals were)
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
March 23 2011 19:56 GMT
#104
Not that this post is worth anything but a +1 opinion, but yes - thus far, every GSTL (especially the first one which came out for free, Korean only) has been better than GSL
ComTrav
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1093 Posts
March 23 2011 19:59 GMT
#105
I love the GSTL, the games are sick good.

There's also a whole other strategic dimension about what player should be put in.

+ Show Spoiler +

OGS vs. Slayers is a great example of this. OGS definitely made a mistake putting Supernova in against a player who already beat Top, an excellent TvTer, allowing SlayerS to chain all-in MC and eventually get something to stick.
Sneddo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States277 Posts
March 23 2011 19:59 GMT
#106
I really hope they make the GSTL longer. I also though really like watching the GSL too. I think I do enjoy GSTL more and I think it's because it's so exciting to see a player sent out to maybe just take out another player, it adds more strategy, cause you really have to understand who your opponents are on the other team. As was mention already if you look at a team like OGs, they haven't done this. They really do have the talent to have won both GSTLs...
Datum
Profile Joined February 2011
United States371 Posts
March 23 2011 20:01 GMT
#107
On March 24 2011 02:52 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Revoking my "last post on this topic" to explain some things for people who are confused or unable to see the bigger picture.

The whole Proleague in Korea is sponsor based and without the sponsors there would be no "pro" competition whatsoever. For sponsors in order to receive something back from their investment is much easier for them to sell teamleague competition with drama (which average Joe diggs) than it is to sell single player tournament (less drama, more competition). Now put yourself in the mind of a pro player. You are on Team (Insert Name) and you have 2 options. 1) to compete in a teamleague (backed up by sponsors) which will secure your monthly salary + more. 2) you compete in singleplayer tournaments without sponsors for lesser payday (because lets face it sponsors will not invest eternally into something that is not popular for average Joe to watch).

So will a SC pro play the game he loves and get payed good for it? Or will he try to only play pure competitively without a secure payday?

Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

We've been shoved SC teamleague games since the beginning because it is in best interest of sponsors. Yes the players get payed well but if they could choose to get payed well AND play true competition, what will they choose? And guess what, even if you don't like something, if you constantly get swarmed by it you will learn to love it. Thats the SC Proleague for you in a nutshell.


What the hell are you talking about? Many of the best progamers play in both proleagues and singles leagues, as the schedules generally don't conflict. They don't have to make a choice.

On another note: As a resident of Philadelphia, I think most Americans enjoy a somewhat personal connection with their favorite atheletes. Hockey is the least popular of the 4 major sports in part because players wear masks, and you almost never see their faces. It feels imporsonal.

On that same note, watching SC can sometimes feel impersonal. I truly love watching the GSL, but aside from outgoing players like Boxer, it's hard to feel as connected to a SC progamer who I see staring at a screen as I do my favorite baseball player, who I see laughing and acting like a human being.

This is why I think the GSTL is a good thing. We get to watch progamers laughing and high-fiving their teammates, which humanizes them to us. As we become connected to them, we become more invested in the outcomes of their games, and thus enjoy the sport even more.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 20:04:53
March 23 2011 20:03 GMT
#108
I love Proleague in BW. I actually like the regular format over the winner's league format. There's just a lot of strategy involved in having certain players specialize in certain maps, certain matchups, practice against a certain player or be more all-around. Then there's the guessing game involved for coaches in terms of guessing who is it that the other coach will send.

Say a team is playing IM and the next map is a bit terran favored. As a coach, do I send my best terran player on that map because it is terran favored? Or do I send my best PvTer instead, knowing that IM might send MVP and he's weak in that match-up? Maybe my best PvTer isn't one of my best all-around players so getting a victory over MVP while saving my players would be worthwhile. But what if IM sent a different player or somebody who plays protoss/zerg? I could be screwed if my best PvTer who I sent to snipe MVP ends up playing a race he's not good against.

Team leagues introduce the concept of figuring out what your players best and worst match-ups are and what the best and worst match-ups of your opponent are. Then there's the guessing game of trying to match your best with their worst.
Papacy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States6 Posts
March 23 2011 20:30 GMT
#109
I like the GSTL because, while in GSL there's the player's drive to positively Represent the team, in the GSTL the player must play for the team. So there's a lot more pressure on the player and investment in the games.

Also, there's a lot more tension and anxiety 'cause of player selection.

So ya, I think it's more exciting.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
March 23 2011 20:39 GMT
#110
there's more strategy involved with team games.
who goes first, who backs up, who is ace, etc.
they plan the whole thing up with who goes vs who and on what map and do what kind of strategy.
and 1 person doing all-kill is more exciting than a 4-0 bo7 game.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
March 23 2011 20:42 GMT
#111
Just to point out, but MC wasn't going to all kill, it was 2-2 when he entered

//tx
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
March 23 2011 20:43 GMT
#112
On March 24 2011 02:52 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Revoking my "last post on this topic" to explain some things for people who are confused or unable to see the bigger picture.

The whole Proleague in Korea is sponsor based and without the sponsors there would be no "pro" competition whatsoever. For sponsors in order to receive something back from their investment is much easier for them to sell teamleague competition with drama (which average Joe diggs) than it is to sell single player tournament (less drama, more competition). Now put yourself in the mind of a pro player. You are on Team (Insert Name) and you have 2 options. 1) to compete in a teamleague (backed up by sponsors) which will secure your monthly salary + more. 2) you compete in singleplayer tournaments without sponsors for lesser payday (because lets face it sponsors will not invest eternally into something that is not popular for average Joe to watch).

So will a SC pro play the game he loves and get payed good for it? Or will he try to only play pure competitively without a secure payday?

Now take the money out of the equation. Would a SC pro player rather play competitive SC with best possible competition or would he play a game that is not entirely controlled by the individual player itself (lol Dreamhack)?

We've been shoved SC teamleague games since the beginning because it is in best interest of sponsors. Yes the players get payed well but if they could choose to get payed well AND play true competition, what will they choose? And guess what, even if you don't like something, if you constantly get swarmed by it you will learn to love it. Thats the SC Proleague for you in a nutshell.

nope, you're just a clueless noobie, and would be better off stfu-ing.
xza
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore1600 Posts
March 24 2011 00:29 GMT
#113
On March 24 2011 05:42 Tschis wrote:
Just to point out, but MC wasn't going to all kill, it was 2-2 when he entered

//tx


woops sry didnt see that properly haha, all-kill is 4-0 right? not 3-0?
"What a terrible final. This is why BO3s are horrible. Seriously MKP vs Moon in a final and having it BO3 is like having Mila Kunis naked in your bed and all she'll give you is a HJ with her PJs on. Pffffffffffffffftt." -greatZERG
Isaac
Profile Joined August 2010
United States810 Posts
March 24 2011 00:34 GMT
#114
Personally, I like the gstl for a few days. I think it will be boring if it was length of GSL. It seems exciting to me after a long season of the GSL. But I really enjoy watching my favorite players play for Championship, rather then favorite team.
number one fan of marineking
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
March 24 2011 00:46 GMT
#115
i like the gstl more than the gsl, but it's kind of a different thing. It's basically just a high stakes playoff from the get go, unlike a prolonged tourney.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
March 24 2011 00:53 GMT
#116
I think there actually was a thread about this after the 1st GSTL, and I agree. A regular league is what will grow the fanbase the most IMO.
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
March 24 2011 00:54 GMT
#117
yea i think gom needs to nurture the fandom of these teams and create longer lasting leagues with individual leagues being less common - kind of an inverse of what is going on right now, basically
SkCom
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada229 Posts
March 24 2011 00:54 GMT
#118
I really enjoy the GSTL since we get to see some new faces and great players who otherwise don't make it to code A or S. It has more variety is all, which is why I prefer the korean team leagues to the individual leagues.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
March 24 2011 00:57 GMT
#119
Team leagues grow the fanbase the most. Individual tournaments, especially at the frequency that GSL is going just makes it seem kind of bleh.

Hell a lot of the team "drama" filters over into the individual tournaments anyway. Proleague got really really big in Korea and some of the rivalries and such carried over into the OSL/MSL.

Only good things can come from GSTL
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Rouel
Profile Joined March 2009
Sweden138 Posts
March 24 2011 00:57 GMT
#120
I just want to pitch in and agree that team leagues are the best. I'm hoping for more of this.
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