EPTZvZ? As a zerg player I don't even like watching them, while there's intense micro seeing nothing but ling/bling and occasionally roaches in 99% of all ZvZs is incredibly boring to watch. Even seeing top tier zerg players duke it out is a snoozefest.
Why is ZvZ hated? - Page 4
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
ZvZ? As a zerg player I don't even like watching them, while there's intense micro seeing nothing but ling/bling and occasionally roaches in 99% of all ZvZs is incredibly boring to watch. Even seeing top tier zerg players duke it out is a snoozefest. | ||
|
SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
| ||
|
Lexvink
Canada310 Posts
| ||
|
FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
- ling/bling -> muta usually - 6/7 pool is more common - Constantly living in fear that you didn't tech to lair quick enough - Shortest matchup, the games are rarely epic. - Very unforgiving of mistakes. Comebacks tend to not happen. - Least strategy of all matches, it's really just a lot of micro, cheese and constant pressure. | ||
|
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
On October 04 2010 00:22 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: - ling/bling -> muta usually - 6/7 pool is more common - Constantly living in fear that you didn't tech to lair quick enough - Shortest matchup, the games are rarely epic. - Very unforgiving of mistakes. Comebacks tend to not happen. - Least strategy of all matches, it's really just a lot of micro, cheese and constant pressure. So may I ask for your Division / Points / Race? I'm 1650 Zerg and I tell you, you're wrong. | ||
|
Keula
Germany157 Posts
| ||
|
Apoth
England194 Posts
| ||
|
Headshot
United States1656 Posts
| ||
|
Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
Edit: this is low-diamond, anyway. Hopefully it'll get more interesting to me as I get higher. | ||
|
OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
| ||
|
Half
United States2554 Posts
| ||
|
nihoh
Australia978 Posts
Somehow it reminds me of Orc mirror back in Warcraft 3... Mixing it closely between grunt raider and spiritwalker, and adjusting numbers of each. (Orc players will know what I mean) | ||
|
Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On October 04 2010 01:07 nihoh wrote: Lately i've stopped going Muta past the early game phase of Roach Ling Baneling guesswork. Infestor + roaches + hydras, and vary the numbers of each depending on enemy composition. Somehow it reminds me of Orc mirror back in Warcraft 3... Mixing it closely between grunt raider and spiritwalker, and adjusting numbers of each. (Orc players will know what I mean) i, 1k rating or so and after i stopped RUSHING for muta ive won more games than ive lost. Instead experimenting with ways to fast expand, a generic "safe" extractor into 14 pool for instance lets your opponent get an easy expansion a couple of crawlers, double queen and sets itself up nicely and you cant do anything but expand yourself or go for an allinn. in zvz burrow infestor have won most of my games xD sad to say but infestor queen roach is very good. | ||
|
Vexx
United States462 Posts
On October 03 2010 21:43 throttled wrote: 1 base muta wins every ZvZ I play. 5 Roaches block ramp ----> Muta Tech -----> GG with only one queen. Don't know why people say you have to speedling/baneling It's been my experience that blocking your ramp with 3-5 roaches with a crawler or two is just an invitation to have the other zerg roll 10 banelings up your ramp and then unleash 40 lings into your base. | ||
|
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
On October 04 2010 01:07 nihoh wrote: Lately i've stopped going Muta past the early game phase of Roach Ling Baneling guesswork. Infestor + roaches + hydras, and vary the numbers of each depending on enemy composition. Somehow it reminds me of Orc mirror back in Warcraft 3... Mixing it closely between grunt raider and spiritwalker, and adjusting numbers of each. (Orc players will know what I mean) Yeah that's a pretty good comparison. It's really all about the numbers at some point. It is weird though, once both players got 2 bases and go for the same mix I really don't know what to build. Pure Hydra/Infestor? Add in Roaches? Go heavy roach infestors? Etc. pp. Fungal growth makes up for an interesting Dynamic. E.g. Hydras better range make them very viable with Infestor play. However Hydra also have much less HP and die quickly to enemy Infestors while Roaches can tank FG very well and regen with burrow. And then there's fungal growth on the enemies Infestors which requires very, very well Infestor micro because you don't want them all to be caught by a single FG and than being taken out. It's really, really interesting and dynamic at that stage of the game ;O | ||
|
Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
1. 8 pool spine rush 2. 8 pool spine rush that they see and hold off.. and are now ahead economically 3. ling/bane wars where 1 bane can make or break you 4. roaches either ehan timing for banes or you lose 5. whoever gets mutas faster if you both survive the banes 6. you try to macro and get killed.. or you try to kill them but don't and now they're ahead economically 7. roach/hydra/infestors only killable by ultras (pretty much) but you're usually dead by then basically it's all about.. "ok.. you made *blah* so i need to make the same or i lose." kinda like PvP ... where if one person goes 2gate.. the other pretty much HAS to 2gate (or so my friend said to me yesterday) | ||
|
pallad
Poland1958 Posts
 | ||
|
Dr.Frost
United States389 Posts
On October 03 2010 21:13 smegged wrote: It's hated because it's stupid. Your creep works against you so the game becomes about all out aggression and a lucky baneling strike one way or the other can end the game. You cannot play a macro game in zvz as well so the games are always dull. It's just a horrible mirror. Ditto everything this guy said. ZvZ is stupid because it's the only mirror match where I see 1,800 point Diamond Zergs losing to 600 pt Diamond Zergs. It has way too much 'luck' involved right now. This may change. Hopefully in GSL 2 more than 1 Zerg can survive so we can see some epic ZvZ's and maybe learn from the pros. | ||
|
TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
| ||
|
Logginurkeyz
United States375 Posts
I played a ZvZ on meta last night where my opponent went for a speedling expand (no clue why, as he didn't scout me at all)- while I scouted him on my 7th drone (to avoid cheese). I noticed he was FE'ing so I opted for a quick lair to infestor with roach speed and +1 missile. I had 3 OL's patting in his main to scout his tech (which never happened, oddly enough), he just went straight speedling. This was probably from a lack of experience or something, but he did make a load of speedlings. He micro'd poorly and I had 5 infestors, so I just fungaled his pack of speedlings twice and let my roaches do that clean up. Then when I moved into his main, he had like 6 spine crawlers and 3 queens. He had blocked his spinecrawlers all in the same spot, so I just kited his queen to the range where my roaches could attack it, but his spines couldn't attack me; then I fungaled the queens in place. He tapped out as soon as I killed all his queens, and I wouldn't exactly call it an epic game- but it was definitely more interesting than most of the sling/bling or mass roach play you see in the lower brackets. | ||
| ||
