On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
I think all the spectators understand how difficult progaming is, hell we tried the game and are nowhere near a competitive level. It doesn't mean we're somehow unable to judge other players' accomplishments. If you're proud of 4th place at one MLG event, good for you. To spectators, that is not an accomplishment, nor a very good result. Players who are able to consistently place top 3 in a tournament are idolized far more, and they're considered the top tier. EG currently has one of these players...
I think FXO is going to korea to power train and gain exposure (all their nonames players will not be nonames anymore after being 2 days a week on TV (even losing)) and most importantly they'll be able to train 12/24 without being distracted and they'll become good when returning to their countries.
I have to say, I was really impressed with InControl and Tyler too.
For me, the language is simply unnecessary, and a form of privilege that being anonymous on the internet provides. People can seem to say and do whatever they want to without consequences, so they do.
Destiny may say he is being true to himself, but I find it hard to believe that he talks the same way in real life as he does on his stream. Imagine the responses if people spoke the same way in real life.
Can you imagine playing some basketball with a friend, and screaming about how you're going to rape them?
What about walking around the supermarket dropping N-bombs?
Your mum calls you down for dinner and you start telling her what an attention whore she is?
Hopefully what Anna said will come to pass, saying rape and the like will be reduced as peers stop using it, and peers in the community will stop using it in the interests of bringing more money into the scene. Once people are accepting more main stream sponsorships there wont be any choice.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
I think 4th place is quite an accomplishment; regardless what anyone says.
On June 02 2011 01:18 Harrow wrote: You mean would any of those EG team wins have been possible without EG.Idra? Gee, I dunno.
It doesn't really say a lot about a team as a whole if one player is carrying the rest of the team members. What we need to see is consistent results from the majority of a team. At such a point a team can be called a very good team and not just the mediocre team with the one exceptionally good member.
On June 01 2011 22:22 flodeskum wrote: I personally don't like people censoring their language for anything. But I do understand that it is an American thing and cursing is sort of a big deal over there. So I can fully support them doing that at sponsored events or tournament casts.
However I completely disagree with incontrol saying that destiny has a responsibility to do the same on his personal stream because he now represents the community. Who decides when you cross over from angry guy streaming starcraft to community representitive? Should all streamers be censoring themselves or only the popular ones? In my opinion the contents of a personal stream represents the streamer and nobody else.
The only exception I would make is the word nigger. I just don't think a white person should be using that word (cue the "omg black people can say it, why can't I??? hAXX!?"). I don't think it is a big deal for the decendants of people that were literally owned to own a single word. Just let them have it. But feel free to say anything else
Fuck you nigger I am black, so its ok to use an "lightning" word
Naw, I'm not really black, I'm so white that CRT radiation appears to be coming from my skin. The concept that words are restricted based on race is stupid and is in fact racist. If any person says i cant say something because of the color of my skin that is racist. I don't give a fuck if a person calls me a cracker, and that they authentically think i am lesser of a human being because I'm white. I will not be offended by being called a cracker, i will not care, because i know its not true. The truth of the matter is that black people shouldn't care either, because they should know its not true.
Hell, i call my gay friends flaming faggots jokingly because they don't take themselves seriously, and i actually asked if it offended them, and they don't care because i'm actually comfortable with them being gay, and I'm not doing it in a way to hurt them or degrade them for being gay.
Calling someone a nigger does not instantly degrade them, and if you think it does then society still has a long way to go, its the intent of the speaker that makes a word like nigger bad, good, or neutral.
I would say my one pet peeve of young, Western White culture is they have a massive sense of entitlement, and there is a subset that believes that nothing should be sacred. It's all me, me, me.
It's the reason why American Idol and Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire can exist and succeed. They're core audience want to believe if you win a silly 2-month competition you not only can be famous, you deserve it.
The reason why this is relevant? I just find it amusing that there have been pages and pages of little snotty brats and nimrods trying desperately to intellectualize and justify the use of the words rape, nigger, and faggot, because of this sense of entitlement. As if it's some kind of right. Because if they can't say caca or poo-poo or pee-pee words, they can't be true to themselves.
Go ahead, guys. Use whatever words you want. It just make you look like a jackass and an idiot.
Yeah. Words do not get their meanings from whatever people want to use them for, otherwise people would have conversations like "Can i has as birthday every rape when. Implausible totally refinement". If the vast majority of the speakers of a language, English, uses the word "rape" to describe forceful, unwanted sex with someone, then you better the fuck wisen up if you somehow believe people will take your use of the word to describe the act of winning over someone to be anything but offensive and moronic.
All it shows is ignorance, and insistence in this case shows stubborn ignorance.
On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote: I have no idea how this happens. You guys would have to have not followed the team scene at all... EG took 3rd in GCPL, 1st in Crota invitational, 2nd in ESEA and various top finishes for the SPL or w/e and the other clan league that all the top teams participated in.
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
I hate that I had to make this post cause there is no way to come off good but the stickler in me cannot stand people being dumb.
FUCK and I somehow forgot Demuslim.. really how the hell did you guys ever compare?
i agree with almost everything u said but its ridiculous for you to asume idra is better than moonglade. moOnglade has been #1 on SEA for some time now and TBH the SEA server is much harder then the US server.
Man. I'm not going to comment on who is better between Idra and Moonglade but using ladder as your metric is just plain awful. Individual tournaments and team leagues are what counts - nothing else.
Also simply saying that SEA is "much harder" than NA without any further qualification is also awful. That may be true, but at least present some evidence if that's what you believe.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
Am I claiming to be a fucking lebron James of SC2? Where the fuck do you go presuming everyone has to have the results of the absolute best player in the game and possibly ever to be posting "good results" ?
btw I stand by the fact you know nothing about SC2 accomplishments and so far you are solidifying that stance. You are a generic spectator. You only consider a 1st place finish a good finish. Therefor you are irrelevant on the discussion.
Why are you even arguing? FXO is going to Korea, so we will see how good they r going to perform EG isn't so we won't know and it DOESN'T MATTER. How can the topic "Fxo goes to participate in the GSTL" lead to a discussion wether 4th place is an achievement (ofc lol) or wether EG without Idra is better then Fxo. Just stop.
On June 02 2011 01:29 Kleinmuuhg wrote: Why are you even arguing? FXO is going to Korea, so we will see how good they r going to perform EG isn't so we won't know and it DOESN'T MATTER. How can the topic "Fxo goes to participate in the GSTL" lead to a discussion wether 4th place is an achievement (ofc lol) or wether EG without Idra is better then Fxo. Just stop.
Of course EG is better than FXO. I like some of the players on FXO but in recent months EG has been performing pretty well.
In terms of individual accomplishments from a team, Dignitas takes the cake. It seems like they have three guys that are just consistently kicking ass right now.
On June 01 2011 22:22 flodeskum wrote: I personally don't like people censoring their language for anything. But I do understand that it is an American thing and cursing is sort of a big deal over there. So I can fully support them doing that at sponsored events or tournament casts.
However I completely disagree with incontrol saying that destiny has a responsibility to do the same on his personal stream because he now represents the community. Who decides when you cross over from angry guy streaming starcraft to community representitive? Should all streamers be censoring themselves or only the popular ones? In my opinion the contents of a personal stream represents the streamer and nobody else.
The only exception I would make is the word nigger. I just don't think a white person should be using that word (cue the "omg black people can say it, why can't I??? hAXX!?"). I don't think it is a big deal for the decendants of people that were literally owned to own a single word. Just let them have it. But feel free to say anything else
Fuck you nigger I am black, so its ok to use an "lightning" word
Naw, I'm not really black, I'm so white that CRT radiation appears to be coming from my skin. The concept that words are restricted based on race is stupid and is in fact racist. If any person says i cant say something because of the color of my skin that is racist. I don't give a fuck if a person calls me a cracker, and that they authentically think i am lesser of a human being because I'm white. I will not be offended by being called a cracker, i will not care, because i know its not true. The truth of the matter is that black people shouldn't care either, because they should know its not true.
Hell, i call my gay friends flaming faggots jokingly because they don't take themselves seriously, and i actually asked if it offended them, and they don't care because i'm actually comfortable with them being gay, and I'm not doing it in a way to hurt them or degrade them for being gay.
Calling someone a nigger does not instantly degrade them, and if you think it does then society still has a long way to go, its the intent of the speaker that makes a word like nigger bad, good, or neutral.
It's easy for some white skinny nerd posting on an internet forum to post his thoughts on the word "ni**er" and "gay". Just because you have an anecdote about your gay friend doesn't make that language alright for general consumption. The crux of the debate isn't about personal preference, but appealing to a larger audience. Because in your sheltered gaming lifestyle you feel it's ok for those words to be used, doesn't mean the general public does. When they start using the words you write about on broadcast television you may have a point. The american public has already had this debate decades ago. On a purely philosophical level I agree with you, but incontrol is right - if you want to appeal to a bigger audience you need to think before you speak.
IMO this whole debate is borne from the fact the main demographic on TL is 17-19 yr olds who really haven't been out in the real world and are still dealing with their rebellion in general. Rebellion from authoritative figures such as parents,teachers, etc.. Incontrol is getting hated on because he's the authoritative figure in this debate who is trying to help the community, however some people can't see through their blind rage...
Have you seen mainstream media? I think you guys are forgetting that the mainstream as of late is extremely offensive and provocative. We should not be trying to appeal to 30+ because it would be a waste of resources.
The issue is marketability, is starcraft 2's chances to become a main stream success inhibited by streamers who use the words rape, nigger, faggot, and gay? I doubt it, I think the market has a place for people who speak like that, but not at professional events. Destiny is making a living from being provocative, while day9 is not that controversial or provocative and is making a living that way. The market can obviously accept it in its current state.
Now here's something to think about, what if there was a player in the community that was truly racist, and talked about hating black people all the time on his stream, and about how women should be second class citizens, etc. etc. more offensive shit. Do you think he would be accepted in the community, if their was someone like that? Hell no, of course not, because that straight up hurts almost everyone that we could possibly market too, and that is just a terrible person. No one wants to be associated with a racist and sexist. Ive seen sports shows, they have professional clean cut sport shows and news, and they also have sports shows where they do use vulgar language and they go in depth, and their are people that watch that stuff too.
I think they can co-exist within the market, because they already are. Also, what demographic would we turn away that we actually have a chance of getting? I mean, do people realize that we are playing a video game, and thus the potential demographics that we can appeal to are already lowered, and also tend to be gamers. I think the most likely demographic that we are going to appeal to are the console players 13+ that already understand the context of words like rape. The concept that starcraft 2 Is gonna appeal to non gamers in mass is far fetched to me, so it feels like this proper language bullshit won't benefit us much at all or possibly hurt us because some people wont be able to go find contents like destinies.
On June 02 2011 01:29 Kleinmuuhg wrote: Why are you even arguing? FXO is going to Korea, so we will see how good they r going to perform EG isn't so we won't know and it DOESN'T MATTER. How can the topic "Fxo goes to participate in the GSTL" lead to a discussion wether 4th place is an achievement (ofc lol) or wether EG without Idra is better then Fxo. Just stop.
Welcome to the internet.
Thats honestly the problem with being anonymous. Especially when they argue with others who aren't.
On June 01 2011 22:27 RedBack wrote: Just listened back to it and machine or someone definately said goodbye all eg players, and idra replyed it wasnt official. So this basically confirms EG are the reason geoffs leaving and idra might not be back?
i agree with almost everything u said but its ridiculous for you to asume idra is better than moonglade. moOnglade has been #1 on SEA for some time now and TBH the SEA server is much harder then the US server.
Ahh this is largely incorrect. Moonglade is a great player, but atm hes not a player of Idra's caliber.
The SEA server is 'harder' at the lower leagues, but when you start getting up into master/GM, the NA server becomes much, MUCH more competitive than the SEA server. There really is no comparison. There are a few great players on SEA, but there is far more on NA (and they're better too).
As for FXO vs EG comparison, EG currently are the better team and would probably deliver better results than FXO, but FXO might be a better team after a few GSTL's, given that they will mostly be living in their team house. FXO definitely has the potential to be a great team, but they will need to work hard for it.
Just had to say that even though I've only watched probably 1 or 2 other episodes of SOTG this one was just not good at all. I ended up turning it off about 45 minutes into it just because there wasn't anything interesting that was going on at all. I suppose I'm unsure if most other SOTGs were like this but the other couple I watched didn't seem to be such bland topics.
EPT
