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On May 30 2011 04:33 TooL wrote:
I remember growing up. How many people are actually taught about the word nigger and such in school? The word had no negative connotation to me because I was introduced to it by seeing one man say "what's up my nigger!" or something like that in music videos. In my mind, I was not seeing color when I observed this. I was seeing one man talk to another man. I did not see a black man speaking to a man of his own color - to me, people are individuals not a group.
I wanted to go off on some long winded version of my perspective but it is honestly futile. It really bugs me when people call others racists simply because of using a word insensitively. Racism isn't based on language, or words.. it is based on hatred. Words are only a way to express that, and that is why context matters. These "racist" words have more meaning than people would like to believe. For better or worse, these words have evolved and while it may be ignorant to use them with no regard for how they could make others feel, it is also ignored to not understand the reasons why they're able to say these things without regard to how they make people feel.
What about calling somebody racist because they believe that blacks, by and large, "choose not to" rise up and succeed as part of a general trend? Given his posts, it's quite clear he's racist. That, or very, very, very uneducated/ignorant.
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I updated my post to reinforce that I am giving my own perspective, not defending anyone in particular.
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On May 30 2011 03:31 [-]Ocelot[-] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:18 Hatsu wrote:On May 30 2011 03:11 [-]Ocelot[-] wrote:
I am going to assume most of the readers/posters here are not black, and are not a victim (or know a victim) of rape.
Perhaps I am not black nor I have been raped (though the closest person to me has been). But I cannot see in 3d, have been severely bullied at school, lost a parent to alcohol and suffer from severe migraines. Every time someone mentions 3d movies, bullying, alcohol, cancer and headaches I am reminded of such miseries and I feel horrible for a bit. So please stop talking about them, because a tiny minority of the population is like me and might suffer from it. Come on. That opening sentence was supposed to open your eyes about a particular weight these words historically carry. I hope you were able to read past it to see my whole post. let me re-quote Cusu's post, which I believe is pretty crucial. Show nested quote +CusuOn the same token by using "nigger" you may not be at all describing or relating it to black people, but you mean it in a negative way and that word unfortunately DOES relate to black people. I am sorry to say that historically your words do not carry the same weight as the above - (nigger, fag, etc, etc). And I agree, not everyone can be spared from being offended. But nigger and faggot are two words that cannot be spoken against someone in a way that doesn't relate an entire population of people in an extremely negative way. We all know how history has shaped them. Quite simply, they have no place in a professional StarCraft cast. Destiny streams to his own audience, and I accept mature language/content age-gate every time I tune in so I know what I'm getting into, and I think he's a pretty damn funny guy. But imagine if a NASL/TSL/etc caster busted out with a "Holy shit that nigger just got raped!" or something using these inflammatory words to describe StarCraft (seperate context) when one player suffers a crushing loss to another... how would that reflect on the caster? The organization behind the tournament as a whole? Pretty poorly, in my opinion because they are allowing themselves to "ignore" and "forget" the history of this historically charged and weighted word.
I did read your whole post, I quoted just your first line simply because it is a wrong assumption. My point is that everyone will come across something, during some cast, that somewhat offends/hurts him on a personal level. I am sure a lot of people can relate to this.
People need to go past such things. Once you actually realize that words DO change meaning according to the context, you will also understand that whatever was said was not meant to offend you. Sure, you may still feel shitty about it for a moment, but to overcome that feeling is actually a crucial step in getting over whatever happened to you.
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On May 30 2011 04:22 Polypunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:17 Kazang wrote:On May 30 2011 04:00 bobshoby wrote:On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist!  ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion. exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress I think you will find most gamers, at least pc gamers, are not very homophobic and pretty liberal overall. Our parents and grandparents are quite often racist, sexist and homophobic, but that doesn't mean we are or will be in the future. The persecution of gays is an american and christian thing, in the civilised world, ie Europe, that problem is largely a thing of the past. When it stops becoming a problem, the words associated with it stop being taken as offensive. It's not the language that is at fault it's amercian culture's vilification of homosexuality. Gamer culture is probably less homophobic than any other mainstream media. Mainstream games frequently have same sex relationships, how many hollywood films contain gay relationships? Not many and when they do middle America is out with the placards, but the rest of the world is moving on. Gamer culture is helping more than hindering the acceptance of homosexuality. What about some of the biggest tv shows? Glee? Modern family? From what I've experienced people in general are pretty accepting in the 20-30 range, younger kids are a lot meaner for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be okay for a 12 year old kid to be screaming die faggot die. language does affect culture.
12 year olds being insecure and calling someone a faggot(or any homosexual slur) is never going to change and not really anything people should care about.
I made some posts earlier about how those insults don't really mean anything.
Personally I find the "die" part of the insult much worse than the "faggot". Murder and remaining alive is more important to me than someone's sexual orientation.
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Its sad how Steven Bonnel thinks that getting a lot of viewers means that most people aren't offended by his wording. The reason he gets a lot of viewers is because his bad manner and immaturity appeals a lot to the younger crowd who get a kick out of it. And Steve Bonnel just so happens to do a very good job at appealing to that crowd. And that crowd just so happens to not have much going on in their lives and thus watch his stream a lot.
As for the main topic at hand,
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again.
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On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Its sad how Steven Bonnel thinks that getting a lot of viewers means that most people aren't offended by his wording. The reason he gets a lot of viewers is because his bad manner and immaturity appeals a lot to the younger crowd who get a kick out of it. And Steve Bonnel just so happens to do a very good job at appealing to that crowd. And that crowd just so happens to not have much going on in their lives and thus watch his stream a lot.
As for the main topic at hand,
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again.
thats nice too bad thousands love him
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On May 30 2011 04:46 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Its sad how Steven Bonnel thinks that getting a lot of viewers means that most people aren't offended by his wording. The reason he gets a lot of viewers is because his bad manner and immaturity appeals a lot to the younger crowd who get a kick out of it. And Steve Bonnel just so happens to do a very good job at appealing to that crowd. And that crowd just so happens to not have much going on in their lives and thus watch his stream a lot.
As for the main topic at hand,
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again. thats nice too bad thousands love him
Compelling argument, my entire viewpoint has been dramatically changed.
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On May 30 2011 04:40 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:22 Polypunk wrote:On May 30 2011 04:17 Kazang wrote:On May 30 2011 04:00 bobshoby wrote:On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion. exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress I think you will find most gamers, at least pc gamers, are not very homophobic and pretty liberal overall. Our parents and grandparents are quite often racist, sexist and homophobic, but that doesn't mean we are or will be in the future. The persecution of gays is an american and christian thing, in the civilised world, ie Europe, that problem is largely a thing of the past. When it stops becoming a problem, the words associated with it stop being taken as offensive. It's not the language that is at fault it's amercian culture's vilification of homosexuality. Gamer culture is probably less homophobic than any other mainstream media. Mainstream games frequently have same sex relationships, how many hollywood films contain gay relationships? Not many and when they do middle America is out with the placards, but the rest of the world is moving on. Gamer culture is helping more than hindering the acceptance of homosexuality. What about some of the biggest tv shows? Glee? Modern family? From what I've experienced people in general are pretty accepting in the 20-30 range, younger kids are a lot meaner for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be okay for a 12 year old kid to be screaming die faggot die. language does affect culture. 12 year olds being insecure and calling someone a faggot(or any homosexual slur) is never going to change and not really anything people should care about. I made some posts earlier about how those insults don't really mean anything. Personally I find the "die" part of the insult much worse than the "faggot". Murder and remaining alive is more important to me than someone's sexual orientation.
it's not just 12 year olds, this insecurity is endemic in our culture amongst straight guys from like 10-25
pretending that this doesn't reflect something about the way our culture has dealt with homosexuality is just disingenuous
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On May 30 2011 04:40 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:22 Polypunk wrote:On May 30 2011 04:17 Kazang wrote:On May 30 2011 04:00 bobshoby wrote:On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion. exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress I think you will find most gamers, at least pc gamers, are not very homophobic and pretty liberal overall. Our parents and grandparents are quite often racist, sexist and homophobic, but that doesn't mean we are or will be in the future. The persecution of gays is an american and christian thing, in the civilised world, ie Europe, that problem is largely a thing of the past. When it stops becoming a problem, the words associated with it stop being taken as offensive. It's not the language that is at fault it's amercian culture's vilification of homosexuality. Gamer culture is probably less homophobic than any other mainstream media. Mainstream games frequently have same sex relationships, how many hollywood films contain gay relationships? Not many and when they do middle America is out with the placards, but the rest of the world is moving on. Gamer culture is helping more than hindering the acceptance of homosexuality. What about some of the biggest tv shows? Glee? Modern family? From what I've experienced people in general are pretty accepting in the 20-30 range, younger kids are a lot meaner for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be okay for a 12 year old kid to be screaming die faggot die. language does affect culture. 12 year olds being insecure and calling someone a faggot(or any homosexual slur) is never going to change and not really anything people should care about. I made some posts earlier about how those insults don't really mean anything. Personally I find the "die" part of the insult much worse than the "faggot". Murder and remaining alive is more important to me than someone's sexual orientation.
any game where killing is the goal, kids are going to use die/kill.
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On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again.
That's sad to hear. Because I think you're taking one show and turning it into a representation of what every show is. Throughout my years of broadcasting I've had my fair share of "controversial" guests and I wouldn't regret having any of them on.
I'd like to think that we're all mature enough to hear an opinion, even if not agreed with, and come to our own conclusions about the topic(s). That is the nature of discussion and even call in shows for that matter.
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On May 30 2011 04:00 cocaineduck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:53 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:46 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. Why does a jewish person understand the history books better than me? Memory is NOT genetic in any way. They identify with a group that this happened to. They dont understand the happening itself any better or any worse than anyone else. Are you trying really hard to troll? He didn't imply memories are transmitted as some form of integration into genomes. He meant that they are passed on from generation to generation. If you want to play really stupid, I guess I could spell out the modes in which memories are transmitted: books, stories, movies, language, music, etc. What differentiates this from any other person that is not jewish that makes their understanding of the events more lucid in some magical way? "You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization?" I understand that the holocaust was devastating aswell, had i been there however i would have had a stronger understanding of just how bad it was. Thats the only way my depth of understanding an event can differ from any one elses really; experiencing it and reading about it. But somehow this doesnt apply for people of the same group as the affected party, i want to understand why that is. ? You must be confused, I was addressing your comment about him implying that memories are genetically transferred. I wasn't implying this seriously however, i wrote that to illustrate the point that there isnt ANY difference in my understanding of the holocaust and my neighbor the jewish guy's. However the dude who came to my school a bunch of years ago who had successfully escaped a gas-chamber and lived to tell about it understands this on a completely different level. That is a legit claim. But the only difference between me and the first jewish guy is genes. So what makes him understand it any different?
I responded to your post on page 48, but you seem to have missed it. Please check it out if you want to see what I meant.
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On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again.
Don't be sad dude.
So you're not mature enough to hear an opinion, even if you not agreed with it?
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On May 30 2011 04:46 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Its sad how Steven Bonnel thinks that getting a lot of viewers means that most people aren't offended by his wording. The reason he gets a lot of viewers is because his bad manner and immaturity appeals a lot to the younger crowd who get a kick out of it. And Steve Bonnel just so happens to do a very good job at appealing to that crowd. And that crowd just so happens to not have much going on in their lives and thus watch his stream a lot.
As for the main topic at hand,
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again. thats nice too bad thousands love him
Where in my post did I say no one did? If you read my post, you'll notice that I actually say exactly what you said. Thousands love him, and I go into why that is. Can you elaborate on what part of my post you struggled with? I can try to explain it more thoroughly if you'd like.
You see, when high school aged males are growing up, there are often higher levels of testosterone going through their bodies than they are used to. This causes behavior which is more aggressive and makes people derive pleasure in making people angry. Its actually proven that higher testosterone levels make people derive pleasure from making other people angry. Just so happens that high school aged guys have increased levels of it, which is why we see a lot of mindless high school aged people on the internet doing things like trolling, flaming, etc. Those types of people get a big kick out of seeing others do the same thing. For someone who is older, such as Steven Bonnel, just from being older, he is able to do it a lot better than the kids who watch him. He's had more experience and knows how it can be most effective. So all he has to do is appeal really strongly to that kind of an age group, which are the ones who have the most free time to watch his stream, and he'll get a ton of viewers and make a lot of money.
In essence, because high school aged males have a hard time adapting to changes in their new testosterone, they derive a lot more pleasure out of this sort of silliness than those of us who have already moved past that. For us, its just annoying and a buzz kill.
Hope this clears things up and that you are able to respond maturely.
Cheers
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good to know the fanbase that will stick with steven bonnell are racist or cool with racism. maybe he will even make some new fans because of this
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On May 30 2011 04:54 Squalish wrote:
good to know the fanbase that will stick with steven bonnell are racist or cool with racism. maybe he will even make some new fans because of this
Generalization. Get your nonsense out of this thread and keep it out.
Just because someone watches his stream, doesn't make them cool with racism or being a racist, grow up.
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On May 30 2011 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:46 Midgetman101 wrote:On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Its sad how Steven Bonnel thinks that getting a lot of viewers means that most people aren't offended by his wording. The reason he gets a lot of viewers is because his bad manner and immaturity appeals a lot to the younger crowd who get a kick out of it. And Steve Bonnel just so happens to do a very good job at appealing to that crowd. And that crowd just so happens to not have much going on in their lives and thus watch his stream a lot.
As for the main topic at hand,
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again. thats nice too bad thousands love him Where in my post did I say no one did? If you read my post, you'll notice that I actually say exactly what you said. Thousands love him, and I go into why that is. Can you elaborate on what part of my post you struggled with? I can try to explain it more thoroughly if you'd like. You see, when high school aged males are growing up, there are often higher levels of testosterone going through their bodies than they are used to. This causes behavior which is more aggressive and makes people derive pleasure in making people angry. Its actually proven that higher testosterone levels make people derive pleasure from making other people angry. Just so happens that high school aged guys have increased levels of it, which is why we see a lot of mindless high school aged people on the internet doing things like trolling, flaming, etc. Those types of people get a big kick out of seeing others do the same thing. For someone who is older, such as Steven Bonnel, just from being older, he is able to do it a lot better than the kids who watch him. He's had more experience and knows how it can be most effective. So all he has to do is appeal really strongly to that kind of an age group, which are the ones who have the most free time to watch his stream, and he'll get a ton of viewers and make a lot of money. In essence, because high school aged males have a hard time adapting to changes in their new testosterone, they derive a lot more pleasure out of this sort of silliness than those of us who have already moved past that. For us, its just annoying and a buzz kill. Hope this clears things up and that you are able to respond maturely. Cheers
Are you implying that, because I am an older male well past his high school/teenage years, I should be finding Destiny deplorable? I humbly disagree.
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I can't believe that people honestly believe that entire groups of people today in the United States are being sysmatically and racially "kept down" by "the man".
If you're talking about "maturity", it sounds to me like there are a bunch of "self-enlightened" 18-22 year olds here who think that because they've taken Black Studies 101, or read >insert random internet article< here, that they're able to make definitive statements about races of people being kept down in the USA.
Does racism still exist today in the United States? Definitely.
Is it anywhere NEAR COMPARABLE to the racism that existed even 50 years ago, let alone 100 years ago? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If you think it does, if you think that any person in the United States today can't attend a university using financial aid, or get a job somewhere if they work hard for it, you probably haven't spent much time outside of your dorm or college walls.
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On May 30 2011 04:48 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:
DJWheat, you lose a view in me as well as others by continuing to have people like Steven Bonnel on your show. I hope that you won't let him on again. That's sad to hear. Because I think you're taking one show and turning it into a representation of what every show is. Throughout my years of broadcasting I've had my fair share of "controversial" guests and I wouldn't regret having any of them on. I'd like to think that we're all mature enough to hear an opinion, even if not agreed with, and come to our own conclusions about the topic(s). That is the nature of discussion and even call in shows for that matter.
I honestly don't know why someone would watch a show that is based on diversity of opinions and then complain when they don't agree with someones opinion that was brought up. I would much rather have people on the far end of each spectrum, if for no other reason than it sparks conversation and debate.
This person is complaining that you brought a person onto your show that doesn't have the same ideology as him and even though it has provoked discussion that could actually change people for the "better" he would rather remain, and have other people, remain ignorant because he was offended.
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Used to tune into Destiny's stream on occasion, will not do so in the future. His arguments on WoC and in this thread have shown him to have a level of immaturity and insensitive ignorance that i do not wish to financially support through viewership. He is free to speak as he wants, but actions do have consequences. I'm sure he's fine with that, his call
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EPT
