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On May 30 2011 03:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:46 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. Why does a jewish person understand the history books better than me? Memory is NOT genetic in any way. They identify with a group that this happened to. They dont understand the happening itself any better or any worse than anyone else. Are you trying really hard to troll? He didn't imply memories are transmitted as some form of integration into genomes. He meant that they are passed on from generation to generation. If you want to play really stupid, I guess I could spell out the modes in which memories are transmitted: books, stories, movies, language, music, etc.
What differentiates this from any other person that is not jewish that makes their understanding of the events more lucid in some magical way?
"You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization?"
I understand that the holocaust was devastating aswell, had i been there however i would have had a stronger understanding of just how bad it was. Thats the only way my depth of understanding an event can differ from any one elses really; experiencing it and reading about it.
But somehow this doesnt apply for people of the same group as the affected party, i want to understand why that is.
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On May 30 2011 03:34 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Dear language police,
Please provide us with a list of words that are guaranteed to not offended any minority in the world. Once provided, we will immediately cease all use of such dialect until further notice.
Hrm, you're missing the point the majority on the other side holds. Nobody expects you not to offend anyone. As incontrol rightly said - that's impossible. What you can do is take some responsbility for the things you say.
So you feel you have an image for honesty and openness, and want to reflect that in your language. I want to ask if you feel your image depends on you using terminology that carries a significant amount of baggage. I also think its an important distinction that yes, these words don't matter to you. They do matter to other people. You can easily use other terms than these "lightning rod" words (and hey, they can still be swearing, very very very very few people would get upset about those) - it's a courtesy thing.
I also want to ask what if the opposite happened. What if, after watching your stream, someone came away with the impression that hey, this guy uses racist slurs and homophobic terms and so is a racist and a homophobe. Instead of seen as being open and transparent, you're seen as either immature and a racist?
The key here is you don't need to use those terms. There's plenty of other ones without going nuts on cesnsorship. And hell, I agree this isn't hurting eSports (good god I hate people who play that card) - but it doesn't hurt to discuss it. I just don't see any benefit of using the terminology. You said yourself - we aren't going to change the world. In a perfect world people would understand context and such, but it isn't. The lightning rod terms just have so much baggage and there's plenty of other terms.
You can argue slippery slope, but a lot of people understand there's a difference between fuck, shit, bastard, so on, and nigger, fag, etc.
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On May 30 2011 03:50 Rmdy wrote:
Destiny's stream is like a videogame version of a comedian and entertainer doing his show. I don't know how often you'll hear very "offensive" words during comedy shows. From fag to nigger, you'll hear it all, hell.. there's even some very funny hitler-parodys on tv, even in germany.
Now if you'd hear those words in a serious news show or from a commentator who does his job casting the fifa champions league, then it would be quite inapropriate.
And we all should know by now that incontrol doesn't like destiny at all and takes every opportunity to do something against him .. however. not the angel in person, aren't you? ... twitter.com/88incontrol guess someone could be offended by that number also.
From what I gather, the primary issue is not the use of the words. You're right - entertainers can use these words when it suits the style of their entertainment. However, under no circumstances is it intelligent or acceptable to justify the use of these words in the utterly...absurd/uneducated...way in which he chooses to do so.
Comedians that use "nigger" don't turn around and justify its use with some awkward/terrible argument.
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On May 30 2011 03:52 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
How long to WoC VOD's normally take? It seems I missed a good one today and I can't wait to see what everyone is fighting about lol.
Not really, just a lot of people getting butthurt about streamers using "bad language" and how it is "hurting the growth of esports" and other such chest beating nonsense.
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On May 30 2011 03:53 cocaineduck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:46 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. Why does a jewish person understand the history books better than me? Memory is NOT genetic in any way. They identify with a group that this happened to. They dont understand the happening itself any better or any worse than anyone else. Are you trying really hard to troll? He didn't imply memories are transmitted as some form of integration into genomes. He meant that they are passed on from generation to generation. If you want to play really stupid, I guess I could spell out the modes in which memories are transmitted: books, stories, movies, language, music, etc. What differentiates this from any other person that is not jewish that makes their understanding of the events more lucid in some magical way? "You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization?" I understand that the holocaust was devastating aswell, had i been there however i would have had a stronger understanding of just how bad it was. Thats the only way my depth of understanding an event can differ from any one elses really; experiencing it and reading about it. But somehow this doesnt apply for people of the same group as the affected party, i want to understand why that is.
?
You must be confused, I was addressing your comment about him implying that memories are genetically transferred. As for why does a specific group appreciate certain memories more so than other groups of people - I think it's sort of obvious. Because it's personally relevant? Emotions play an important role.
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It's all good. People gonna say what they wanna say. Some people get mad cause we eat cows, and other cultures consider them sacred. Some people don't like me cause I have a blue bandannas hanging from my jean pocket. some people don't like me for sayin BIOOOOTCH, or Bitch be trippin BALLZ!
The world is full of diverse people with different beliefs and morals. For us to try and enforce what a person can or can't saying goes against basic rights as a person.
Can't well All get along and Play starcraft?
*I am Debo and I approve of this Message*
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As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist!  ), I figured I'd share my point of view.
First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either.
I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else.
Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized.
Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion.
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The whole point is not that he used those words.. it's how he tried to defend his use of those words that is offensive...
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On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:09 Beef Noodles wrote:On May 30 2011 03:03 DISHU wrote:
he seemed so insensitive and as a black person i wont wacth his stream agian either i used to like his stream as well to bad.
if a person doesnt want to be called a name what rigth do you have unless your arrogant . While I agree with you, you have to understand that Destiny is rather immature. I am not defending his view point, but he doesn't sound like someone who has encountered this issue throughout his life. I am willing to bet that he doesn't frequent many African-American communities (having 1 or 2 black friends doesn't count). His point is offensive, but he's not offensive in his own eyes. I think it's just a lack of knowledge/understanding. He thinks its valid to say "why are you assuming I mean it offensively." While other people are saying "why do you have to say the words that offend my culture." Destiny thinks that blacks will "mature" and eventually not get offended, but I think that is the wrong approach. But again I think this is a maturity issue on Destiny's part. I honestly don't think he means ill will. Keep watching his stream if you like it. You can disagree with someone's view point on language and still enjoy their content You have made so many baseless, ridiculous assumptions that I"m not even sure how to approach this post. You sound like the most bigoted person in existence to start off your response with a declaration about my level of maturity, and then follow it up with statements (of fact) about my life when you don't know me, or know of my history. Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:11 [-]Ocelot[-] wrote:
I am going to assume most of the readers/posters here are not black, and are not a victim (or know a victim) of rape.
To those that are neither, and still defend Destiny's argument, you TRULY do not understand what sort of weight these words carry, and have carried throughout history. You do not understand what it means to be discriminated against because of your race in the same way blacks were enslaved, beaten, segregated, and oppressed throughout American history. You do NOT know how vulnerable it feels after being taken against your will, overpowered, and raped- and potentially contracting an STD or AIDS, or becoming pregnant, etc. These words carry weight that many of you are ignoring. Show nested quote +I'll take another example.. the Swastika. Before being adopted by Nazi Germany, the swastika symbol was seen in a number of places around the world- all fairly peaceful or mundane, many times in some sort of religious context. Then what happened? It became the symbol of an evil regime who killed millions of innocent people. So what? Is it OK to use the swastika now, and claim it's just a religious artifact when you know what history has done to this symbol? Can you say "No dude, you're taking it totally out of context..." when you're hanging a diamond swastika around your neck, saying it's your religious beliefs? How would you think people respond to something like that? I believe a fairly reasonable person would say, "It's a bit insensitive. That symbol has a pretty ugly weighted history.." So, what you're saying is that if I draw a swastika for any reason, I automatically support nazism? "ok"
Hey Destiny, love the stream. I do think it's an important thing to talk about.
Steven.Bonnell.II
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
Lucky for us, slavery and segregation is now illegal. Unfortunately for us, hate crimes still exist. Blacks (among other minorities, not excluding whites) are victims of racially charged hate crimes. I can't even imagine how many hate crimes took place after 9/11 against anyone who looked even remotely from the Middle East, but I assure you- these things still happen. Racial epithets are an unfortunate extension of those hate crimes as well "nigger/faggot/etc".
I'd like to be clear it's a two way street. Whites can be as much of a victim as hate crime as any other nationality or gender. So I hope my posts are coming off as constructive and not a "down with whitey" sort of deal. I know you're set in your ways, and that's fine. I view your stream and your viewers as you among a group of friends. People tune in because you're entertaining as hell to watch, and pretty good to boot. Your personality, style, etc. is all what makes your stream unique and worth watching for the thousands of viewers that tune in. I think it's great, and I agree with you when you said if you were to move to a larger audience (say to guest commentate MLG or something), you would leave some of your more abrasive commentary at home. That's where I'm basing my argument from. Everything above and in my previous posts was more of a "why this word is actually bad" argument. It's very interesting to me to see a lot of comments saying these words are only powerful because we give them power, and that we should forget why they have taken the meaning they have. To that I respectfully disagree.
Steven.Bonnell.II
So, what you're saying is that if I draw a swastika for any reason, I automatically support nazism? "ok"
I didn't say that at all. You can draw a swastika for what ever reason you like. You can be a child, 3 years of age and see it on a T.V. show, think "wow that's really cool" and doodle it in your notepad without knowing what it means. ...But that is the idea I'm trying to get across. I made the ridiculous image of one wearing a diamond swastika because it's an ignorant image. If you were to pepper your stream page with Swastikas, for example, it would be a very ignorant act and you would essentially be ignoring the extreme weight and significance this now corrupted symbol has taken. Same with the child, he would need to be educated as to why it's inappropriate to doodle or draw the symbol- or at the very least he would need to be educated on the weight of the word, so in future instances he knows exactly what he's doing- and in that case he'd be doing it with a purpose.
You of course know what weight the swastika holds. You could doodle swastikas all day without supporting the Nazi party, but you know that publicly it's shunned and may very well be for the rest of our lives.
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On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion.
exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress
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On May 30 2011 03:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:53 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:46 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. Why does a jewish person understand the history books better than me? Memory is NOT genetic in any way. They identify with a group that this happened to. They dont understand the happening itself any better or any worse than anyone else. Are you trying really hard to troll? He didn't imply memories are transmitted as some form of integration into genomes. He meant that they are passed on from generation to generation. If you want to play really stupid, I guess I could spell out the modes in which memories are transmitted: books, stories, movies, language, music, etc. What differentiates this from any other person that is not jewish that makes their understanding of the events more lucid in some magical way? "You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization?" I understand that the holocaust was devastating aswell, had i been there however i would have had a stronger understanding of just how bad it was. Thats the only way my depth of understanding an event can differ from any one elses really; experiencing it and reading about it. But somehow this doesnt apply for people of the same group as the affected party, i want to understand why that is. ? You must be confused, I was addressing your comment about him implying that memories are genetically transferred.
I wasn't implying this seriously however, i wrote that to illustrate the point that there isnt ANY difference in my understanding of the holocaust and my neighbor the jewish guy's. However the dude who came to my school a bunch of years ago who had successfully escaped a gas-chamber and lived to tell about it understands this on a completely different level. That is a legit claim.
But the only difference between me and the first jewish guy is genes. So what makes him understand it any different?
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On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view.
Yay another gay sc2 player, I made a post about the suicide rates as well, about 3 or 4 pages back, also talking about how gays are still pretty discriminated and that social media does have an affect on culture and how stuff is view. I just hate how often the words are thrown around in gamer culture, the only steamer I can stand user those words is sheth because he's so nice other wise.
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Why is there so much hate. Really stuns me.
So Destiny used nigga on stream or something? I thought American culture has basically adopted the word or is that only black Americans. I know Zim guys use it all the time but over here we don't really use it at all. Guess places are just different. Personally I don't care.
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On May 30 2011 04:01 Numy wrote:
Why is there so much hate. Really stuns me.
welcome to north america
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On May 30 2011 04:00 cocaineduck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:53 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 30 2011 03:46 cocaineduck wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. Why does a jewish person understand the history books better than me? Memory is NOT genetic in any way. They identify with a group that this happened to. They dont understand the happening itself any better or any worse than anyone else. Are you trying really hard to troll? He didn't imply memories are transmitted as some form of integration into genomes. He meant that they are passed on from generation to generation. If you want to play really stupid, I guess I could spell out the modes in which memories are transmitted: books, stories, movies, language, music, etc. What differentiates this from any other person that is not jewish that makes their understanding of the events more lucid in some magical way? "You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization?" I understand that the holocaust was devastating aswell, had i been there however i would have had a stronger understanding of just how bad it was. Thats the only way my depth of understanding an event can differ from any one elses really; experiencing it and reading about it. But somehow this doesnt apply for people of the same group as the affected party, i want to understand why that is. ? You must be confused, I was addressing your comment about him implying that memories are genetically transferred. I wasn't implying this seriously however, i wrote that to illustrate the point that there isnt ANY difference in my understanding of the holocaust and my neighbor the jewish guy's. However the dude who came to my school a bunch of years ago who had successfully escaped a gas-chamber and lived to tell about it understands this on a completely different level. That is a legit claim. But the only difference between me and the first jewish guy is genes. So what makes him understand it any different?
Ah yeah I was misreading it a bit. In any event, it's probably because of human emotions. Emotional attachment to events also distinguish you. Environmental impacts account for diversity as much as genetic impacts do.
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On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity.
I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it.
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On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion.
Completely disagree with one specific part of your post;
"White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies."
America is not the internet. I live in the Netherlands, and our culture is a lot more openminded when it comes to gay people. Gypsies however are not always treated as well, as people believe that they (and other immigrant groups) are responsible for a lot of the crime and other problems in the Netherlands. I'd argue that in my culture, the word "gay" is less offensive then the word "foreigner" even.
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djWheat I would kindly ask you not to associate yourself with people like Destiny. I understand where you are coming from when you want to provide a place for discourse. It is a great topic for discussion for the gaming community to have.
I remember watching orbs stream a while back and he called someone a "nigger map hacker" and I cringed. Why did he call him a nigger and not something else? He thought of the thing he thought would cause the person on the other side to rage. An insult on a grand scale. As a person of color I have dealt with this all the time on battle.net. I remember the first time and it was jarring. They probably thought it was a just a white guy on the other end with no personal experience with the word or it's context.
I don't get offended by it. I don't get angry, but what other context is that word being used other than an insult. He doesn't say it lovingly. He doesn't say my nigga. I feel like the person is showing himself to believe that calling someone that is a supreme insult. He is showing that he is a racist or wants himself to be confused with being a racist. Either way it doesn't matter. I agree with Destiny that he can continue to say whatever he wants. He can step over lines and be completely insensitive to others, but there is a reason he uses these particular words. If they weren't so taboo and demeaning he wouldn't use them. It speaks to his character as a person. He has a complete disregard for others and I have no regard for him. I will not support him or ROOT. I will tune out while he is on stream at tournaments. I will discontinue my viewership of your shows if you allow Destiny back on. This is probably a meaningless gesture, but it is one I feel comfortable with.
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On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it.
He didn't say that. If you read his post instead of getting emotional, you would have realized he was making a very valid point, it's still an offensive word, used a hundred years ago or not, and you chose to use it.
Nows the time to try and do something professional, like apologizing for instance.
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On May 30 2011 03:46 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:34 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:30 Rocor wrote:
Dear DJ Wheat,
I have been a fan in the community for the past year or so. I love the content you produce. Please limit your association with people like 'Destiny'. His comments and arrogance about the use of those words were -not good-.
I appreciate the discussion you all had, but surely you can tell the difference between InControl doing a stereotype impersonation and someone using the 'N' word and then trying to defend it like 'Destiny' did.
I realize that everyone says what they have to say in order to create entertaining content.. but to justify it the way he did is pretty offensive.. Please don't have Destiny on anymore of your shows !!
Dear language police, Please provide us with a list of words that are guaranteed to not offended any minority in the world. Once provided, we will immediately cease all use of such dialect until further notice. You're an idiot if you truly believe that the words you are defending offend a small minority, and that it is impossible to avoid historically hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech. The problem isn't that you're throwing out obscure slurs against small amazonian tribes. The issue is that you see no problem with freely using slurs from recent history against large groups of people who are part of this community. In this country, you're entitled to use them, but that fact alone doesn't give you anything close to the moral high ground. You're not being persecuted, stop acting like you are. It's a shame that as a well known representative from this community you see no reason to hold yourself to a higher standard.
Considering that I am probably -the- most popular SC2 streamer at the moment, I think I can pretty safely say that the people offended by my content are a very, very small minority. I would never say that using the word "nigger" or "faggot" is "hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech."
I'm not using words to disparage a group of people, I'm using them in a context appropriate for the message I'm trying to convey.
"Goddamn, this asshole plays like a faggot" does not translate to "my SC2 opponent is probably of homosexual nature".
"Homosexuals should have no rights because they are lesser than heterosexual people," however, is an EXTREMELY offensive statement. Notice how it's offensive without using any offensive words, however?
Your choice of words do not dictate your context, or the meaning of what you are trying to say. If anything, context will dictate the meaning of words.
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EPT
