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On May 30 2011 04:09 DizzyDrone wrote:
Completely disagree with one specific part of your post;
"White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies."
America is not the internet. I live in the Netherlands, and our culture is a lot more openminded when it comes to gay people. Gypsies however are not always treated as well, as people believe that they (and other immigrant groups) are responsible for a lot of the crime and other problems in the Netherlands. I'd argue that in my culture, the word "gay" is less offensive then the word "foreigner" even.
That's totally fair, I should have clarified that this was the case in America, and in particular my experiences in America. When people use the word "gypped" here, I think many people genuinely don't know the history of the word or consider it a racial slur. There might be some areas in America where this word is not acceptable, but I'm unaware of them. The acceptability of a word will of course vary between countries and cultures.
Thanks for posting though, I was unaware of that  !
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On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it.
It doesn't matter. Look at the relationship between poverty and race in the US today. Look at the relationship between incarcerations and race in the US today. Look at the impact of economical imperialism in non-Western countries today. After this, tell me no one should find usage of the word "nigger" denoting domination offensive.
You don't have to go 50 years back in time to find atrocious living situations.
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People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy.
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On May 30 2011 04:13 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:46 tree.hugger wrote:On May 30 2011 03:34 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:30 Rocor wrote:
Dear DJ Wheat,
I have been a fan in the community for the past year or so. I love the content you produce. Please limit your association with people like 'Destiny'. His comments and arrogance about the use of those words were -not good-.
I appreciate the discussion you all had, but surely you can tell the difference between InControl doing a stereotype impersonation and someone using the 'N' word and then trying to defend it like 'Destiny' did.
I realize that everyone says what they have to say in order to create entertaining content.. but to justify it the way he did is pretty offensive.. Please don't have Destiny on anymore of your shows !!
Dear language police, Please provide us with a list of words that are guaranteed to not offended any minority in the world. Once provided, we will immediately cease all use of such dialect until further notice. You're an idiot if you truly believe that the words you are defending offend a small minority, and that it is impossible to avoid historically hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech. The problem isn't that you're throwing out obscure slurs against small amazonian tribes. The issue is that you see no problem with freely using slurs from recent history against large groups of people who are part of this community. In this country, you're entitled to use them, but that fact alone doesn't give you anything close to the moral high ground. You're not being persecuted, stop acting like you are. It's a shame that as a well known representative from this community you see no reason to hold yourself to a higher standard. Considering that I am probably -the- most popular SC2 streamer at the moment, I think I can pretty safely say that the people offended by my content are a very, very small minority. I would never say that using the word "nigger" or "faggot" is "hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech." I'm not using words to disparage a group of people, I'm using them in a context appropriate for the message I'm trying to convey. "Goddamn, this asshole plays like a faggot" does not translate to "my SC2 opponent is probably of homosexual nature". "Homosexuals should have no rights because they are lesser than heterosexual people," however, is an EXTREMELY offensive statement. Notice how it's offensive without using any offensive words, however? Your choice of words do not dictate your context, or the meaning of what you are trying to say. If anything, context will dictate the meaning of words.
So are you saying langue and social media as no impact on the culture and values of society? Why are all bad words focused on monitory groups? Homosexuals in America are still discriminated against, and its looked down upon. Gay teens have a much higher suicide rate because it still isn't accepted in our society and culture.
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On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy.
If it doesn't offend you, just watch it, its really that easy.
You realize how that has nothing to do with having a discussion about it?
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On May 30 2011 04:00 bobshoby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist!  ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion. exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress
I think you will find most gamers, at least pc gamers, are not very homophobic and pretty liberal overall.
Our parents and grandparents are quite often racist, sexist and homophobic, but that doesn't mean we are or will be in the future.
The persecution of gays is an american and christian thing, in the civilised world, ie Europe, that problem is largely a thing of the past. When it stops becoming a problem, the words associated with it stop being taken as offensive.
It's not the language that is at fault it's amercian culture's vilification of homosexuality.
Gamer culture is probably less homophobic than any other mainstream media. Mainstream games frequently have same sex relationships, how many hollywood films contain gay relationships? Not many and when they do middle America is out with the placards, but the rest of the world is moving on.
Gamer culture is helping more than hindering the acceptance of homosexuality.
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On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy.
No thanks, I'd rather state my opinion and actually see something changed then be passive and offended.
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On May 30 2011 04:19 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy. No thanks, I'd rather state my opinion and actually see something changed then be passive and offended. So you would rather get angry at anonymous people over the internet?
Do you chase down everyone that calls you a naughty word on bnet?
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On May 30 2011 04:17 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:00 bobshoby wrote:On May 30 2011 03:56 Bortlett wrote:As somebody who's openly gay and takes starcraft seriously (we do exist! ), I figured I'd share my point of view. First of all, I want to get this out of the way. Destiny has the right to say whatever he wants on his stream, as long as it meets justin.tv's terms of use. I don't think anybody should there and tell him what he can/can't say, or probably even what he "should" say. It's his call. I've also never actually watched his stream. I would imagine that he doesn't use the words gay/faggot/rape/etc. all the time either. I have to admit that the words gay/faggot used in a negative connotation bother me. I wish they didn't. It's not even a conscious thing, really. Whenever I hear somebody say "that's so gay" or call somebody else a "faggot", I cringe on the inside. It's a purely emotional and irrational reaction. If I hear somebody use it in a stream or cast, I will turn it off. I'm not going to rage about it or anything, or write an e-mail to them, I just go do something else. Like I said before, I would never tell somebody that they can't say something. It's more like I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish the starcraft community (and gaming/online community in general) got to the point where using some of these racial, homophobic, and other slurs wasn't acceptable. Since this is the internet, that will never happen, but I believe it would be a positive thing for the starcraft community as a whole if the usage of these words are minimized. Words do evolve, but you can't just say "I don't mean that somebody is actually a faggot when I call them that, the word's evolved beyond that point because I use it differently!". It depends on the word and a number of other factors. White people using the n word is completely unacceptable in most social circumstances, but using the word "gypped" is generally ok, even though it used to be a racial slur against gypsies. In America, gays are still a persecuted minority fighting for equal rights. Gay teens are far more likely than their straight counterparts to commit suicide (and whatever the actual number is probably lower than reality since we don't know how many closeted teens killed themselves for that reason), and kids are bullied for the mere perception they are gay, whether they actually are or not. The word "gay" or "faggot" just hasn't evolved enough for it to be acceptable to say in some of the ways people say it, and it might never be, in my opinion. exactly, i've been making the same general point. Sadly i don't think we'll ever entirely remove the implicit homophobia in a lot of gamer culture but at least threads like this show that we're slowly making some progress I think you will find most gamers, at least pc gamers, are not very homophobic and pretty liberal overall. Our parents and grandparents are quite often racist, sexist and homophobic, but that doesn't mean we are or will be in the future. The persecution of gays is an american and christian thing, in the civilised world, ie Europe, that problem is largely a thing of the past. When it stops becoming a problem, the words associated with it stop being taken as offensive. It's not the language that is at fault it's amercian culture's vilification of homosexuality. Gamer culture is probably less homophobic than any other mainstream media. Mainstream games frequently have same sex relationships, how many hollywood films contain gay relationships? Not many and when they do middle America is out with the placards, but the rest of the world is moving on. Gamer culture is helping more than hindering the acceptance of homosexuality.
What about some of the biggest tv shows? Glee? Modern family? From what I've experienced people in general are pretty accepting in the 20-30 range, younger kids are a lot meaner for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be okay for a 12 year old kid to be screaming die faggot die. language does affect culture.
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On May 30 2011 04:19 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy. No thanks, I'd rather state my opinion and actually see something changed then be passive and offended.
Agreed here. Why is using the n word and rape so treasured to some people?
If someone needs rape and the n word to communicate a point or make a joke, they need to diversify their language, plain and simple. There's never a time when either word is needed. And the fact is, the SC2 community is getting bigger and bigger. SC2 isn't 4chan. The internet isn't a giant playground. People need to get over the fact that this isn't HoN or LoL or some other dumb playground for 16 year olds to spam racial slurs. The SC2 is developing and growing more and more, and it is inevitable that it will mature as a result, as it needs to consider more people.
On May 30 2011 04:22 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:19 PanN wrote:On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy. No thanks, I'd rather state my opinion and actually see something changed then be passive and offended. So you would rather get angry at anonymous people over the internet? Do you chase down everyone that calls you a naughty word on bnet?
He's not chasing anyone. Your exaggeration isn't helping your argument in the slightest. There are plenty of other people who are put off by this type of language. Its not that it necessarily offends me, as I am neither black or gay, but it is distasteful and takes away from the dignity of a show. Not everyone here are young high school kids. Those jokes got old years ago for many of us, and its just tiresome and dull at this point. Its possible to be funny using wit as opposed to vulgarity.
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On May 30 2011 04:14 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it. It doesn't matter. Look at the relationship between poverty and race in the US today. Look at the relationship between incarcerations and race in the US today. Look at the impact of economical imperialism in non-Western countries today. After this, tell me no one should find usage of the word "nigger" denoting domination offensive. You don't have to go 50 years back in time to find atrocious living situations.
Except today's people who live in impoverished conditions all have the opportunity to rise above them. At the moment, a large majority of them choose not to.
To say that black people today are impoverished for the same reason as black people 100 years ago is an absolutely ridiculous statement. I'm not completely naive, and I do acknowledge that racism is very much alive and well in some parts of society today, but there are definitely opportunities for ANYONE in America to succeed today, regardless of race.
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On May 30 2011 04:22 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:19 PanN wrote:On May 30 2011 04:15 uSnAmplified wrote:
People are so incredibly sensitive to what people say over the internet its astounding.
If something offends you dont watch it, its really that easy. No thanks, I'd rather state my opinion and actually see something changed then be passive and offended. So you would rather get angry at anonymous people over the internet? Do you chase down everyone that calls you a naughty word on bnet?
Nice assumption, no really, it was cute.
Not going to argue with you if you're going to be like that.
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I got into an argument about whether blacks or gays are discriminated against more in today in the USA. That was an interested conversation...
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On May 30 2011 04:23 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:14 Dystisis wrote:On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it. It doesn't matter. Look at the relationship between poverty and race in the US today. Look at the relationship between incarcerations and race in the US today. Look at the impact of economical imperialism in non-Western countries today. After this, tell me no one should find usage of the word "nigger" denoting domination offensive. You don't have to go 50 years back in time to find atrocious living situations. Except today's people who live in impoverished conditions all have the opportunity to rise above them. At the moment, a large majority of them choose not to. To say that black people today are impoverished for the same reason as black people 100 years ago is an absolutely ridiculous statement. I'm not completely naive, and I do acknowledge that racism is very much alive and well in some parts of society today, but there are definitely opportunities for ANYONE in America to succeed today, regardless of race.
Christ. You really need to stop digging yourself in deeper. Do you know how many experts on the matter would sorely disagree with this statement? Pure ignorance - I'm not sure where one would even begin to explain the complexity of the situation. "Choose not to"... That is painfully embarrassing. I don't know you, but really, I am cringing hard at that. I suppose your saving grace is that you simply don't care about your personal reputation. That's fine. Sooner or later it'll come around to bite you. 'Til then, enjoy.
edit:
You know what - you've proven yourself here with that post. The fact that you are so utterly in the dark about the reality of the situation proves that you are racist. Plain and simple. You truly believe that blacks out there simply "choose not to", and that that is their attitude and source of disadvantaged status. That's racism by definition, sorry. You can't really get out of that one. You are a racist plain and simple. See ya
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On May 30 2011 04:23 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:14 Dystisis wrote:On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it. It doesn't matter. Look at the relationship between poverty and race in the US today. Look at the relationship between incarcerations and race in the US today. Look at the impact of economical imperialism in non-Western countries today. After this, tell me no one should find usage of the word "nigger" denoting domination offensive. You don't have to go 50 years back in time to find atrocious living situations. Except today's people who live in impoverished conditions all have the opportunity to rise above them. At the moment, a large majority of them choose not to. To say that black people today are impoverished for the same reason as black people 100 years ago is an absolutely ridiculous statement. I'm not completely naive, and I do acknowledge that racism is very much alive and well in some parts of society today, but there are definitely opportunities for ANYONE in America to succeed today, regardless of race.
Careful, your ignorance is showing.
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On May 30 2011 04:23 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 04:14 Dystisis wrote:On May 30 2011 04:08 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:43 wzzit wrote:On May 30 2011 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
You know who else doesn't understand what it means to be enslaved, beaten, segrated, or oppressed throughout American history? ANY BLACK PERSON UNDER 50 YEARS OF AGE.
This is really ignorant. As a white person, you have no idea how historical memory works. You think that Jews today don't understand the devastation of the Holocaust? Or that Koreans don't understand the humiliation that came with Japanese colonization? Historical memory gets transmitted from generation to generation. It's a critical part of cultural identity. I can't possibly understand how you could say someone today who hears the word "nigger" can automatically identify with the horrible/atrocious living situations of people 50 years in the past. If you believe they can relate to such an environment, we see reality very differently, and there's no point in discussing it. It doesn't matter. Look at the relationship between poverty and race in the US today. Look at the relationship between incarcerations and race in the US today. Look at the impact of economical imperialism in non-Western countries today. After this, tell me no one should find usage of the word "nigger" denoting domination offensive. You don't have to go 50 years back in time to find atrocious living situations. Except today's people who live in impoverished conditions all have the opportunity to rise above them. At the moment, a large majority of them choose not to. To say that black people today are impoverished for the same reason as black people 100 years ago is an absolutely ridiculous statement. I'm not completely naive, and I do acknowledge that racism is very much alive and well in some parts of society today, but there are definitely opportunities for ANYONE in America to succeed today, regardless of race.
Sorry man, but you gotta realize that there is actually a significant amount of research and information out there about this topic, and it disagrees directly with what you said. For there to be successful black people does not mean that there is an even playing field. Anyone being technically capable of it is a very different thing than there being equal opportunity.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:13 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 03:46 tree.hugger wrote:On May 30 2011 03:34 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:On May 30 2011 03:30 Rocor wrote:
Dear DJ Wheat,
I have been a fan in the community for the past year or so. I love the content you produce. Please limit your association with people like 'Destiny'. His comments and arrogance about the use of those words were -not good-.
I appreciate the discussion you all had, but surely you can tell the difference between InControl doing a stereotype impersonation and someone using the 'N' word and then trying to defend it like 'Destiny' did.
I realize that everyone says what they have to say in order to create entertaining content.. but to justify it the way he did is pretty offensive.. Please don't have Destiny on anymore of your shows !!
Dear language police, Please provide us with a list of words that are guaranteed to not offended any minority in the world. Once provided, we will immediately cease all use of such dialect until further notice. You're an idiot if you truly believe that the words you are defending offend a small minority, and that it is impossible to avoid historically hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech. The problem isn't that you're throwing out obscure slurs against small amazonian tribes. The issue is that you see no problem with freely using slurs from recent history against large groups of people who are part of this community. In this country, you're entitled to use them, but that fact alone doesn't give you anything close to the moral high ground. You're not being persecuted, stop acting like you are. It's a shame that as a well known representative from this community you see no reason to hold yourself to a higher standard. Considering that I am probably -the- most popular SC2 streamer at the moment, I think I can pretty safely say that the people offended by my content are a very, very small minority. I would never say that using the word "nigger" or "faggot" is "hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech." I'm not using words to disparage a group of people, I'm using them in a context appropriate for the message I'm trying to convey. "Goddamn, this asshole plays like a faggot" does not translate to "my SC2 opponent is probably of homosexual nature". "Homosexuals should have no rights because they are lesser than heterosexual people," however, is an EXTREMELY offensive statement. Notice how it's offensive without using any offensive words, however? Your choice of words do not dictate your context, or the meaning of what you are trying to say. If anything, context will dictate the meaning of words.
I think your argument that context is all that matters is complete nonsense. But if you want to argue about context, at least do it coherently.
You say:
"I would never say that using the word "nigger" or "faggot" is "hateful, derogatory, and demeaning speech.""
And then:
"Goddamn, this asshole plays like a faggot" does not translate to "my SC2 opponent is probably of homosexual nature".
No, but it equates "asshole" and opponent for whom you clearly have contempt with a general slur on homosexuals. What on earth do you think "plays like a faggot" means? Do gay players prefer mech, or tank-marine in TvZ? Obviously sexual orientation makes no difference. That has nothing to do with gameplay. It has everything to do with your dislike of your opponent, and you're equating it with a slur against homosexual people.
You can't just invent a new meaning for a word and expect everyone to respect that. That's not how this works. Your words may take on a different meaning in the ears of a listener. Maybe once in a while, people say something that unintentionally is perceived badly by someone else. That's unfortunate. But you cannot plead ignorance with words that every single American knows to be a slur.
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I remember growing up. How many people are actually taught about the word nigger and such in school? The word had no negative connotation to me because I was introduced to it by seeing one man say "what's up my nigger!" or something like that in music videos. In my mind, I was not seeing color when I observed this. I was seeing one man talk to another man. I did not see a black man speaking to a man of his own color - to me, people are individuals not a group.
I wanted to go off on some long winded version of my perspective but it is honestly futile. It really bugs me when people call others racists simply because of using a word insensitively. Racism isn't based on language, or words.. it is based on hatred. Words are only a way to express that, and that is why context matters. These "racist" words have more meaning than people would like to believe. For better or worse, these words have evolved and while it may be ignorant to use them with no regard for how they could make others feel, it is also ignorant to not understand the reasons why they're able to say these things without regard to how they make people feel.
edit: I'd also like to point out i am not defending a particular person or action. I have not watched Destiny's stream so when I say "context matters" I am not referencing anything in particular, just making a generalization.
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I am glad to see this discussion taking place. I come from a game with a much more offensive culture (counter-strike) and to me the sc2 community seems pretty tame. What I find interesting is how far the gaming community has actually come. When I started playing cs (beta1) everyone used fag, gay, etc. Now we are talking about how we should try not to say rape and retard. Its assumed that pillars of the community would not use homosexual slurs, and we are moving towards thinking about what used to be very mainstream words. I think this is growth.
I use the word rape and I have for along time for a variety of reasons, in person and on the internet. After giving it some thought and reading this discussion I should work on not saying it anymore. The truth is the context makes absolutely no difference. Arguments that state that people should "get over it" are short sighted and stupid. Its not about censorship, its about common decency. No one is going to censor what you say on the internet. You may be banned from some platforms for your language but you can always move to a different one.
Why should other people be forced to just "get over it"? Who are you to tell people what they should and shouldn't be offended about. Yes they can turn the stream off, and I bet some do, but if you want to become a professional gamer and make money then you need to grow the fuck up. You don't use offensive words no matter what the context because its not necessary and you could be offending other people. If you are hurting even 1 person who watches your stream and you gain nothing from using the word then why not just stop using it? What do you gain from offending and hurting others?
Truth be told I haven't listened to the entire show yet, so if I am off base forgive me, but am I correct in reading that people in this thread have been defending the use of racial slurs by arguing context? That's the dumbest argument I have ever heard. The truth of the matter is words matter and actions have consequences. You wouldn't walk down the street with your friends screaming out racial slurs because if you did (unless you are a member of the race of course) you would be put down by the offended people around you, and rightly so. Who you are on the internet and while streaming should be the same person you are in person, both in language and in action. If you are playing one roll on your stream or on TL and are a different person in real life you are nothing but a coward.
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EPT
