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Or maybe England is doing everything right.
- They haven't conceded a goal.
- Sterling scored 3 goals so far, each a game winner.
- Of all the "big teams" they actually struggled the least in the RO16.
And even in a historic context (only looking at Euros):
- For the first time ever they won their opening group stage match
- For the first time ever they won a knockout game in regulation
- They beat their historic nemesis.
And still ppl here go like:
- but manager shit
- but Sterling shit
- but why didn't they win 5-0
wtf you want???
The goal is to win games (or least not lose them) And it looks like Southgate found a way to make it happen. Is it pretty football? Nah, not really... But it delivers.
And if they win it all while playing like Greece, so be it.... Whatever works.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
The fuck is wrong with him?
On June 30 2021 20:18 mahrgell wrote:
Or maybe England is doing everything right.
- They haven't conceded a goal.
- Sterling scored 3 goals so far, each a game winner.
- Of all the "big teams" they actually struggled the least in the RO16.
And even in a historic context (only looking at Euros):
- For the first time ever they won their opening group stage match
- For the first time ever they won a knockout game in regulation
- They beat their historic nemesis.
And still ppl here go like:
- but manager shit
- but Sterling shit
- but why didn't they win 5-0
wtf you want???
The goal is to win games (or least not lose them) And it looks like Southgate found a way to make it happen. Is it pretty football? Nah, not really... But it delivers.
And if they win it all while playing like Greece, so be it.... Whatever works.
IMO it'\s perfectly summarized by the tweet by Lineker above. English people and their "football coming home" with no understanding of the said game. Also it's from China  Typical
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nothing? hes right. it shouldnt be a foul, and even if you were extremely harsh to the player it should never be a red
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 30 2021 20:29 evilfatsh1t wrote:nothing? hes right. it shouldnt be a foul, and even if you were extremely harsh to the player it should never be a red
Is my sarcasm meter overheaten again?
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On June 30 2021 19:13 sneakyfox wrote:
British media...
Stuff like this makes me wish the team could win but the media/wider football community would lose. The players are excellent and deserve all the success they het, but damn the wider football culture (at least regarding the national team) in England keeps pissing me off.
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Northern Ireland26292 Posts
On June 30 2021 21:10 Oukka wrote:Stuff like this makes me wish the team could win but the media/wider football community would lose. The players are excellent and deserve all the success they het, but damn the wider football culture (at least regarding the national team) in England keeps pissing me off.
I’m in that boat, certainly. Even more so in this post-Brexit era because of how the worst elements of what you describe outline with what gave us that.
That said browsing that thread apparently the bloody Sun had Sterling featured so maybe this is just selective. On the other hand the classic Daily Mail classic combo of a footballer, a member of the royal Family and some random white woman supporter (usually attractive) was on display once more.
@deacon you think Lineker is wrong? Maybe he’s talking about some specific incident and is, hugely wrong but if he’s speaking more generally he seems correct to me.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 30 2021 21:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 21:10 Oukka wrote:Stuff like this makes me wish the team could win but the media/wider football community would lose. The players are excellent and deserve all the success they het, but damn the wider football culture (at least regarding the national team) in England keeps pissing me off. I’m in that boat, certainly. Even more so in this post-Brexit era because of how the worst elements of what you describe outline with what gave us that. That said browsing that thread apparently the bloody Sun had Sterling featured so maybe this is just selective. On the other hand the classic Daily Mail classic combo of a footballer, a member of the royal Family and some random white woman supporter (usually attractive) was on display once more. @deacon you think Lineker is wrong? Maybe he’s talking about some specific incident and is, hugely wrong but if he’s speaking more generally he seems correct to me.
Lineker is reacting to the yesterdays red card. And he's wrong. Rule's now don't give a ref the choice to give a yellow card when the leg is being hit above the ankle and you go directly at it(edit> meaning the leg is hit by the shoe sole and not the tip/side of the shoe). That's because this tackle (especially on the leg on which the player is standing on) is considered as a high risk and can be career ending. If you do a high tackle you have to be sure to not hit anyone. Basically high tackle is a tackle in which you knowingly risk causing an injury and you are responsible for your body. No matter how the shit happened. Certain exception is if the player is on the ground as then you expose yourself(that's why playing on the ground can be penalized as a fould against your own person) (Edit> but when you're on the ground you are not standing and the fouling player cannot play a high tackle against you  )
One would expect that he would know the rules, so he's either doing this because he doesn't know a shit or he's trolling. Either way it's bad considering his status and how many people look up to him.
Edit> the red card punishment for these tackles is to protect the players from injuries. The defense cannot be - he rushed into this it's his fault.
Edit 2> also when you kick away the ball you won't hit the other leg with the shoe sole. Kicking the leg in such a position is something else. But that's not what happened.
TLDR here :D
On June 30 2021 06:06 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 06:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
It looks horrible but it's completely accidental, surely that's just a yellow... German TV had a ref, who said, that this red is correct by the current referee guidelines. Basically "if you hit a player above ankle height with the underside of the shoe, even if you play the ball and the hit is without direct intent, then this is considered as willfully accepting an opponents injury, and therefore red"
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Dafuq is Lineker talking about...he definitely should re-read the rules before opening his mouth
That's what we get for letting them win... English people talking shit all over the place
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Norway28747 Posts
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced.
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On June 30 2021 20:18 mahrgell wrote:
Or maybe England is doing everything right.
- They haven't conceded a goal.
- Sterling scored 3 goals so far, each a game winner.
- Of all the "big teams" they actually struggled the least in the RO16.
And even in a historic context (only looking at Euros):
- For the first time ever they won their opening group stage match
- For the first time ever they won a knockout game in regulation
- They beat their historic nemesis.
And still ppl here go like:
- but manager shit
- but Sterling shit
- but why didn't they win 5-0
wtf you want???
The goal is to win games (or least not lose them) And it looks like Southgate found a way to make it happen. Is it pretty football? Nah, not really... But it delivers.
And if they win it all while playing like Greece, so be it.... Whatever works.
I can totally see them take it all and I would be happy for them. What they are doing works. The original question was why neutrals were not invested in the english team. And the answer for me is: They barely get through their games while having a super talented squad. I watch Denmark - by no means a bad squad - and wonder what England could do if they fought with the same spirit. And I totally admit that I could be wrong and playing any other way, they might just lose, go home and disappoint even more.
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On June 30 2021 22:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced.
Back when football was real?
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If you thought Liverpool fans were obnoxious when they won the PL just wait and see England fans if they win the Euros
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Norway28747 Posts
On June 30 2021 22:12 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 22:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced. Back when football was real?
I mean, I grew up watching PL from the first season and I certainly remember Vinnie. But I don't miss him at all. Players like him should be kept away from the game.
(That's not to say that the pendulum hasn't swung too far to the other side. Maybe it has. However, involvements that have a serious chance of resulting in long term injury for the opposing player should result in a red card, doesn't matter 'if the ball was there'.)
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 30 2021 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 22:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 30 2021 22:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced. Back when football was real? I mean, I grew up watching PL from the first season and I certainly remember Vinnie. But I don't miss him at all. Players like him should be kept away from the game. (That's not to say that the pendulum hasn't swung too far to the other side. Maybe it has. However, involvements that have a serious chance of resulting in long term injury for the opposing player should result in a red card, doesn't matter 'if the ball was there'.)
The refs before the EURO were instructed to let the game keep flowing so it seems more "manly" At least our commentators said that during the opening matches. OTOH the rules are more strict to protect the health of the players and that's not a wrong thing. IMO
Similarily you can talk about how american football changed to the "worse" because of the concussion rules. Or NHL when we're in NA
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Norway28747 Posts
Oh yes, I absolutely love the refereeing so far in the championship. I actually think this is the tournament/league I've ever seen where I like the refereeing the most.
But that's about not rewarding players that fall from a tiny bit of contact and about permitting some physicality, it's not about accepting potentially leg-breaking tackles.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 30 2021 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh yes, I absolutely love the refereeing so far in the championship. I actually think this is the tournament/league I've ever seen where I like the refereeing the most.
But that's about not rewarding players that fall from a tiny bit of contact and about permitting some physicality, it's not about accepting potentially leg-breaking tackles.
Agreed. I just wish these theatrical falling players would get some post game punishment in case the referee whistled.
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On June 30 2021 22:57 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh yes, I absolutely love the refereeing so far in the championship. I actually think this is the tournament/league I've ever seen where I like the refereeing the most.
But that's about not rewarding players that fall from a tiny bit of contact and about permitting some physicality, it's not about accepting potentially leg-breaking tackles. Agreed. I just wish these theatrical falling players would get some post game punishment in case the referee whistled.
So Neymar and CR7 get a perma ban?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 30 2021 23:03 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 22:57 deacon.frost wrote:On June 30 2021 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh yes, I absolutely love the refereeing so far in the championship. I actually think this is the tournament/league I've ever seen where I like the refereeing the most.
But that's about not rewarding players that fall from a tiny bit of contact and about permitting some physicality, it's not about accepting potentially leg-breaking tackles. Agreed. I just wish these theatrical falling players would get some post game punishment in case the referee whistled. So Neymar and CR7 get a perma ban?
Unless they change, yes
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Northern Ireland26292 Posts
On June 30 2021 22:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced.
Ah. That looked very much a red to me, but in general accidents happen and not everything that causes injury is a foul. And vice versa, something isn’t not a terrible foul just because a bloke’s leg isn’t broken.
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Norway28747 Posts
On June 30 2021 23:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2021 22:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ya, Lineker is speaking about the tackle that resulted in a red card in Sweden vs Ukraine. I think that was a clear red card. Swedish pundits agreed. Prolly the only ones that don't are people who grew up watching or playing English football back when Vinnie Jones was a thing.
I also agree with mahrgell on England. They might not have been dazzling, but they've been convincing. While there are many teams I support to varying degrees, England is the one I support the most this EC, and I'm totally pleased with their performance so far. Sure - I'd like to see more flashy players than Rice and Phillips, but they seem really balanced. Ah. That looked very much a red to me, but in general accidents happen and not everything that causes injury is a foul. And vice versa, something isn’t not a terrible foul just because a bloke’s leg isn’t broken.
I agree with this - and I think the 'attacker's punishment should match the length of injury' suggestions are pretty dumb for just this reason. People can get injured from tackles that weren't horrendous, and someone like Danilo can get his neck broken but keep playing. One of the key determiners is, and should be, whether the leg is straight or not. A slightly bent knee and suddenly the tackling player ends up absorbing a lot of the impact, while a straight leg leaves the victim of the tackle absorbing the entirety of it. People can still survive straight legged tackles - but the probability of an injury increases to the point where I think a straight red will usually be justified.
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EPT
