EPTFormula 1 Discussion - Page 95
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Penev
28536 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
On December 17 2021 03:21 Excludos wrote: It's important to keep in mind that this is not Lewis' statement, but Toto, and Toto is a pathological liar. Don't get me wrong, I completely feel for Mercedes and Lewis. I can't imagine how I would feel in their shoes, and they do deserve some sympathy. But Toto doesn't know when to stop. Pretending Lewis is thinking of quitting (The exact opposite of Lewis' nature btw) with no indication from himself that he is considering doing so (Also while he's still on contract), is just a horrible attempt at gathering sympathy points, while giving himself the 'out' that he never said he was going to, 'just thinking about it'. There's no truth in these statements. Yeah absolutely, I don't blame Lewis at all for this statement by Toto. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
Here's a video of all teams communications which shows how everyone is very confused at the way the race was being handled, most vocal are Vettel, Alonso and Sainz. Sainz also complains why he wasnt able to fight for higher position because lapped cars infront of him didnt unlap and says its unair what is being done. Alonso's radio is very interesting too, he basically knows better than Masi what to do, perhaps he should be the next race director after he retires lol. This is the full Toto interview. If you disregard his weird behavior, (appears very disillusioned as he himself says) he does make very good points about consistency, better rules, something most of us discuss here and (I think?) we agree on. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
On December 17 2021 21:40 FreakyDroid wrote: Time isnt measured during the SC, it kinda makes no sense. I have a recording of it, just watched it, no time is displayed between drivers during SC. There were 4 or 5 cars between Max and Lewis. Mercedes didnt pit him because they didnt know if the lapped cars will unlap. Thats from lap 53 to 55. At lap 56 Masi says there will be no unlapping. The next lap 57 Masi says unlap only the cars between Max and Lewis and that SC will be undeployed at the same lap, leaving only lap 58 to race which was the final one. Basically Mercedes did the right thing until lap 56, but by the time Masi says unlapping will happen Mercedes is out of any option to pit Lewis because next lap the race restarts. I understand all that that's not what I'm asking. I want to know if there was a possibility for Lewis to pit the lap after Max did and still come out in front of Max. One would assume not but I want to know for sure. It would be interesting to see a simulation regarding this. To further clarify: If you watch the official broadcast we get to see the distance between Lewis and Max in lap 54 (on the mini map) after max had pitted (on lap 53) which is rather large but Lewis, getting caught by the SC earlier, will be driving slower. Than we get to see replays of the accident, Mercedes pit crew, etc. We then cut to Lewis behind the safety car but it's already lap 55. Was there enough gap left for Lewis to pit on lap 54 to stay in front of Max? I'm asking because from what I can gather from the fragmented information it actually seems pretty close. I'd assume Mercedes opted to not pit again, now in lap 54, because Max was already too close or closing in too fast but were they right though? | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
On December 17 2021 22:38 FreakyDroid wrote: No, he would be behind him, thats why they kept telling Lewis they would lose track position. Were they right though? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
I mean probably? We won't ever definitively know but the loss in speed from pitting would be less in a safety car lap and if they didn't have time to pit and not lose position before they wouldn't have been able to do it after. | ||
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Aristodemus
England2014 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
I'm not stating Mercedes fucked up, I'm missing crucial information to make such a claim, but when I watch the information that is available it is actually a lot closer than I expected. If you have time to waste you can check for yourselves. Also it shouldn't be too hard for people with access to the proper data to make a simulation of this, hopefully someone will at some point. And again, yes, Mercedes is likely to have made the right decision with the information they had access to but it was a very hectic situation and they have made mistakes before. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
On December 18 2021 00:06 ChristianS wrote: Yeah, unfortunately I don’t know how to answer your question. I saw Danny O’Dwyer (video games documentarian, but also does an f1 podcast) saying he spent some time looking at different feeds with a stop watch and thinks Merc *might* have been able to get him in and out ahead of Max, but it would have been very tight and depended on, say, Max not speeding up just a little or something. That might be the kind of work you’d need to do to answer this. I wasn't necessarily looking for a definite answer, this is the kind of answer I was hoping to get. Thanks <3. I don't think people realize that it isn't that clear cut that staying out in lap 54 was the right decision. I didn't before I rewatched the race myself. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
Edit: Mercedes observing this simulation is a certainty obviously. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
-lap 53 Latifi crashes, SC is deployed -lap 53-55 no information comes out of race control -lap 54 Max pits -lap 56 race control says no unlapping -lap 57 race control says unlapping of cars between Max and Lewis only When race control on lap 56 says no unlapping, its more reasonable to assume that if standard SC procedure is followed, they would need 2 laps to unlap all the drivers stuck in wrong positions and all the backmarkers, which means race ends under a safety car on lap 58. Mercedes couldnt have done anything. If Lewis pits even on lap 54, Max stays out, they lose track position and gets stuck behind lapped cars and/or backmarkers. If he pitted on lap 55 after Max he undoubtedly loses track position and gets stuck behind lapped cars which at the time were told not to unlap. So pitting would be incredibly stupid in any of the two scenarios, basically handing over the win to Max because the info they had was: no unlapping will be done. That's why Toto gets furious when Masi changes his mind and decides to unlap only cars between Max and Lewis on lap 57, something which is completely out of procedure. That's why Sainz complains to his team that its unfair, he was in P3 and he was not given a chance to finish higher because of 2 lapped cars between him and Max (Bottas and a McLaren car) It took me a few days to understand the whole thing, but now that I do, its beyond ridiculous how the race was handled by race control. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
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