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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
On December 18 2021 01:15 FreakyDroid wrote: Im just watching it, when he pits the lap displayed on the screen is 54. Maybe its actually 53 dunno, but that's what it says on the recording of the race. Yes it is still lap 53 for Max, it says 54 because Lewis has crossed the line already, Max will cross it in the pits. Lewis stayed out in lap 53 and rightfully so because Max would have gone opposites and gained track position. We're talking about the lap after. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Definitely. Lewis would be caught by the safety car, which is maybe 50% of racing speed, and Max when he comes out of the pits is going to be driving quite a bit faster. He loses only like 10s in the pits, and can drive probably 70-80% racing speed until he catches the back of the pack. Lewis definitely would not be safe to pit on the following lap because he's the leader. The safety car waits at safety car 2 line (pit exit) for the leader (Lewis), all cars ahead get waved through. | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
Edit: It's a bit tiring to have to constantly have to repeat myself btw, if you read my previous posts you'd notice I don't need to be explained that Lewis, getting caught by the SC, will at that point be slower than Max until he catches the SC-train. | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
Latifi crashes when the front runners are in lap 53. This happens in front of them on track; We get to see Lewis passing the wreckage, still in lap 53. The gap between Max and Lewis is 12s at this point as it shows on screen. We get to see on screen that the amount of time lost when pitting during VSC/safety car should be +14s. This means that Lewis who is now approaching the pit entry can't stop in this lap because he would lose position to Max. Max pits in (his) lap 53, exits, should be around 26s behind Lewis although this number doesn't really matter all that much because we get an actual visual representation of the gap on screen for a while. Max is behind Vettel. Notice that the gap between Vettel and Leclerc (who is the tail end of the SC-train) is shrinking but not necessarily fast enough to prevent Lewis pitting. Unfortunately we lose the "mini map" but Lewis isn't all that far away anymore from the pit entry at that point. Extrapolate from here and you'll notice, well I do anyway, that it's actually a pretty close call. Even if you take into account that Lewis, by entering the pit (and stopping) would be slower for a while still. We get some replays and return life to the track already in lap 55 where we see Lewis behind the safety car, the back markers and we see Max in the background as well. Hard to reverse extrapolate from this though. Ultimately all of this doesn't matter all that much of course, nothing will change what has happened. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
Looking at it that way, Im in complete agreement with Toto that rules should be clearer, actions should be taken sooner by race control and the bending of rules should stop. So clear rules, consistent application of them etc must become the norm moving forward. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4017 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
On December 19 2021 14:34 FreakyDroid wrote: I get what you're saying, but I think I've said this a few times now, Mercedes assumed standard safety car procedure will be applied in regards to unlapping, and in their press release they quoted a race from 14 months ago (dont remember which one) and they quote Masi who at the time said and Im paraphrasing : All cars must be unlapped. According to their calculation and pretty much everyone else's, the race would end with a safety car. Of course there's also that verbal agreement between teams that when possible the race should end under green flag conditions, which is what ultimately Masis decided to do, but not before telling all teams there will be no unlapping only to change his mind on the same lap the safety car will return to the pits ie lap 57. Its just inconsistent application of rules, rules which also contradict each other. If you disregard the damage that was done to Lewis, there's 7 more drivers which were stuck between lapped cars and back markers unable to fight for higher positions, the most damage was done to Lando and Sainz if we dont count Lewis. So in the grand scheme of things, the decisions taken by Masi benefited only Max. Im not taking this against Max, he was just lucky, but there is no argument to be made in that this was a fair sporting decision, it just wasnt in my view. Looking at it that way, Im in complete agreement with Toto that rules should be clearer, actions should be taken sooner by race control and the bending of rules should stop. So clear rules, consistent application of them etc must become the norm moving forward. You are misunderstanding my intentions FreakyDroid. I am not talking about the controversy, we already did that to death. I just noticed something while rewatching that I hadn't seen mentioned, namely it appears that Mercedes actually might have had an opportunity to pit Hamilton without losing position. So I basically asked; Did anyone else notice and if not check it out! | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
It's an Andrew Benson article so take it with a bit of a grain of salt but still. Nobody will confirm if Hamilton will continue to race this coming season and it sounds like him doing so may be contingent on concrete actions being done by the FIA. I feel like the bare minimum is that Masi will be gone. Something has to be done. They can't pretend that some of the things that happened this past season didn't happen. The whole stewarding system in general needs rethinking but at minimum there needs to be a change in leadership for race direction. You can't have a race director who flat out ignores safety concerns brought up by drivers and who makes questionable decisions then bends rules to fit the decisions rather than basing decisions on a consistent interpretation of rules and precedent. I've been rewatching the season and it seemed like there was something almost every race where Masi would do something inconsistent or questionable. More concerning was that he ignored specific safety concerns from drivers on multiple occasions. At least it seems like the FIA are indicating that they are very aware that there's a huge credibility and legitimacy issue right now and that something needs to be done about it. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
On January 12 2022 11:29 Ben... wrote: Nobody will confirm if Hamilton will continue to race this coming season and it sounds like him doing so may be contingent on concrete actions being done by the FIA. There is just no way this would ever happen for 2022. Mercedes doesn't have another seasoned driver lined up, and the other seat is taken up by a young driver. If Lewis left now, Mercedes would be completely fucked, and I don't think Lewis go through the massive penalty that is breaking the contract, just to rudely leave Mercedes hanging with nothing for the next season. There's also no reason to believe FIA will conclude their investigation before the start of the season. I think people are reading a bit too hard into this. Lewis have been talking about retiring for a while, and we could see him retire after 2022 if he's not happy with the status quo. But there's little to believe he's just going to up and leave right before the start of a new season with no warning | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
This is a very informative video giving some insight into why Mercedes became so much faster in the last 4 races. It's nothing new, but I saw a lot of confusion on this forum as to why they could suddenly increase their engine power like that within the current rules. It also goes into some nice details about the whole thing, why other teams couldn't have done the same thing, and if this can be done for 2022 as well | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
But if that turns out to be true, then by sacking Masi, FIA indirectly admits fault, in which case: should Max's Championship title be brought in question? I personally wont, but Im sure some will. Whatever the case though, I hope this drama ends before the start of next season. Having this looming over everyone's heads while the guys are racing is not a good place to be in (for the drivers I mean). | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On January 12 2022 20:00 Excludos wrote: Weirder things have happened. I doubt he would quit too but the way Mercedes, the FIA director, and others have been talking, it sounds like Hamilton is genuinely upset about how everything went down. He's the biggest star in all of F1 and even the threat of him quitting should make the FIA take this matter very seriously (which, to be fair, it sounds like they probably are now).There is just no way this would ever happen for 2022. Mercedes doesn't have another seasoned driver lined up, and the other seat is taken up by a young driver. If Lewis left now, Mercedes would be completely fucked, and I don't think Lewis go through the massive penalty that is breaking the contract, just to rudely leave Mercedes hanging with nothing for the next season. On January 12 2022 16:30 FreakyDroid wrote: Sure, this would make sense if he was just starting out as race director, but he's been doing this for 3 years now, and there's been issues all along, very few of which have ever been resolved. The problem is that when there is an issue, he doesn't seem to respond to it in a way that indicates he is capable of learning or growth. When he's questioned by the media or others on his decisions, he tends to refuse to explain his thinking but instead becomes openly hostile and essentially responds with "because I say so". Could be, but I think they will try to save skin by making a team around him. I dont know much about that side of racing so I have to rely on more experienced people and their opinions. Quite a few have said that Masi has a tough job and that he has a very small team, many comparing him to Charlie Whiting and how he didnt need a big team because of his knowledge and experience, something that Masi lacks. Now I have no idea how much of this is true or not, but seems like something reasonable to do without throwing Masi under the bus. There's 2 months left until the next season, so I expect more news coming at us in the next few weeks. After the race in Baku where Masi caused multiple dangerous situations to occur due to his slow reactions to cars having tires blow out, he wouldn't answer questions about what happened. Several drivers questioned why such dangerous situations were allowed to occur. Rather than addressing their concerns, Masi lashed out at them for questioning his judgment and instead tried to blame the drivers for his failure to keep control of the race (he claimed they were going too fast under yellow flags, to which they responded with "why didn't you hand out penalties then" to which he gave a wishy-washy non-answer). Multiple times this season he has completely lost control of the race, which should never happen in a sport this dangerous. The best way I saw of describing this all is that someone said essentially that Masi is not temperamentally fit for the job. In a job like this, he's gonna make mistakes or have to make unpopular decisions. It's just part of the job to have to do so. What is important is how the person in the job deals with those times where they have to make the hard choices. Masi is very bad at this and seems to take any questioning of his judgment personally. We all heard it in Abu Dhabi when he snapped at Mercedes for questioning what was going on and said "It's motor racing, we're in a motor race". He didn't try to deescalate the situation in any way. He could have said "I'll explain after the race" or literally anything else but no, he gave the team his decision was obviously negatively impacting a bunch of attitude for questioning him at all. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
Anyways, here's an official statement from FIA. Guess we'll wait a bit longer. Not surprised by this, they'll probably think long and hard how to go about doing this. 2-3 months of more speculation where the sport is in the headlines is a nice bonus for them I suppose | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
If I was a betting man, I'd say they'll probably change a few rules regarding the safety car, less power for Masi to just do whatever he wants, and they'll leave it at that and proclaim all problems solved | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
Changes will be made that's for sure, but I think that band aid type of solutions wont be accepted by the majority of teams seeing as most of them are asking for clear rules and consistency. Pretty sure Mercedes wont let that go so easily and will demand at least that much. | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
nos.nl So the engines will be manufactured in Japan and only the fine tuning will be done in the new Red Bull factory. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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