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On July 21 2010 22:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
well if you're implying that this is a phenomenal tournament with pretty much anyone aside from qxc having about equal chances to take it down then i agree.
However I have a feeling that people somehow think that those other people are better then Dimaga and have better chances then him to win, which is simply nonsense. Dimaga was the best player of the beta, it's not even fathomable how anyone can measure up to his results.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I am saying that there are people with better chances than Dimaga to win this tournament. I may not be as familiar with Dimaga as some of the other participants in this tourney, and I did underestimate him vs. White-rA, but I can tell you for sure that you are 100% wrong when you say that he's "definitely the favorite to win this tournament". He's not. Not saying there isn't any chance that he will, but I am saying that he's definitely NOT the absolute favorite as you claim he is.
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I really think people aren't giving IdrA enough credit in his third game against HuK, because his response to double robo was incredibly well-timed and something for everyone to learn from.
First, he didn't immediately slam out a spire as soon as the Lair was done. Instead, he made a ton of speed roaches. Speed roaches on creep are more than capable of darting forward to focus down colossi when there are still so few gateway units and will deal with a small number of them easily on an open map like Lost Temple as long as you don't lose control of your cliff and are careful with force fields. And against that number of zealots they were all that could hold the rest of the army back. Immediately going with hydras would have meant too little gas for corruptors, and corruptors first would create a huge window where HuK's army could simply walk into his base with no resistance.
Then he got a hydra den and spire and popped out ~10 corruptors literally just in time to hold off the bigger push with more colossi. HuK had spent so much gas on sentries and colossi that he only had about eight stalkers which cannot actually take out that many corruptors before the colossi die. IdrA did not engage with many ground forces at all until the colossi were dead, either.
I really do not think that the extended thermal lance upgrade (which is not free, it's almost as much as a whole colossus) would have made any difference in the outcome of the game. IdrA was not planning on engaging HuK's army with those roaches unless he walked far onto the creep and there were simply not enough gateway units to block off all those units. Then once corruptors popped, having even less money for anti-air would have made the situation worse, not better, as the colossi never even met the full ground army.
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On July 21 2010 23:12 RoKetha wrote:
I really do not think that the extended thermal lance upgrade (which is not free, it's almost as much as a whole colossus) would have made any difference in the outcome of the game. IdrA was not planning on engaging HuK's army with those roaches unless he walked far onto the creep and there were simply not enough gateway units to block off all those units. Then once corruptors popped, having even less money for anti-air would have made the situation worse, not better, as the colossi never even met the full ground army.
Yeah people are going nuts over this probably because of Day9's reaction, but I feel HuK wanted to surprise Idra with 4 quick Colossus, and in that situation, it's probably better to not get the upgrade and use your gas on getting one more. The mistake I feel (what do I know...) is that he showed his hand too early. He moved in with the colossus to kill zerglings here and there, and waited a while before pushing. The perfect timing window was lost. And at that point, it was too late to start research on thermal lance because he wouldn't be able to go mass collosus again due to Idra's perfect response.
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With range 9 you can keep your colossus behind your army. Without it you have to be with your army in the frontlines.
Just that makes having the lance upgrade very important.
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On July 21 2010 23:05 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 22:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
well if you're implying that this is a phenomenal tournament with pretty much anyone aside from qxc having about equal chances to take it down then i agree.
However I have a feeling that people somehow think that those other people are better then Dimaga and have better chances then him to win, which is simply nonsense. Dimaga was the best player of the beta, it's not even fathomable how anyone can measure up to his results. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I am saying that there are people with better chances than Dimaga to win this tournament. I may not be as familiar with Dimaga as some of the other participants in this tourney, and I did underestimate him vs. White-rA, but I can tell you for sure that you are 100% wrong when you say that he's "definitely the favorite to win this tournament". He's not. Not saying there isn't any chance that he will, but I am saying that he's definitely NOT the absolute favorite as you claim he is.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124584
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Is the 1st game Whitera vs DIMAGA in the archive missing?
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On July 21 2010 23:05 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 22:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
well if you're implying that this is a phenomenal tournament with pretty much anyone aside from qxc having about equal chances to take it down then i agree.
However I have a feeling that people somehow think that those other people are better then Dimaga and have better chances then him to win, which is simply nonsense. Dimaga was the best player of the beta, it's not even fathomable how anyone can measure up to his results. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I am saying that there are people with better chances than Dimaga to win this tournament. I may not be as familiar with Dimaga as some of the other participants in this tourney, and I did underestimate him vs. White-rA, but I can tell you for sure that you are 100% wrong when you say that he's "definitely the favorite to win this tournament". He's not. Not saying there isn't any chance that he will, but I am saying that he's definitely NOT the absolute favorite as you claim he is.
you're just new to SC2
here are some of his tournaments taken from ggnet:
Achievements:
3rd place Go4SC2 Cup #23 (BETA)
2nd Place StarCraft 2 World Cup (BETA)
2nd place ZOTAC Cup #13 (BETA)
1st place EU Craft Cup #9 (BETA) 100$
1st place US Craft Cup #6 (BETA) 100$
2nd place Go4SC2 Cup #14 (BETA)
2nd place ZOTAC Cup #10 (BETA)
1st place Craft Cup #5 (BETA) 50$
1st place SC2TV Invite Tour #3 (BETA) 100$
1st place SC2TV Invite Tour #2 (BETA) 100$
1st place Go4SC2 Cup #1 (BETA) 100€
1st place SC2.ru Cup #3 (BETA)
2nd place ZOTAC Cup #4 (BETA)
1st place ZOTAC Cup #3 (BETA) 100€
1st place ZOTAC Cup #1 (BETA) 100€
There are also things like Razer Domination and the 1st sc2tv.ru invite that are missing off the top of my head.
And that considering that he was banned from all tl.net and gg.net events.
So, no, you're 100% wrong
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On July 21 2010 23:30 lorgoth wrote:
yep its not there.
Thx :-)
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On July 21 2010 23:31 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 23:05 dabom88 wrote:On July 21 2010 22:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
well if you're implying that this is a phenomenal tournament with pretty much anyone aside from qxc having about equal chances to take it down then i agree.
However I have a feeling that people somehow think that those other people are better then Dimaga and have better chances then him to win, which is simply nonsense. Dimaga was the best player of the beta, it's not even fathomable how anyone can measure up to his results. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I am saying that there are people with better chances than Dimaga to win this tournament. I may not be as familiar with Dimaga as some of the other participants in this tourney, and I did underestimate him vs. White-rA, but I can tell you for sure that you are 100% wrong when you say that he's "definitely the favorite to win this tournament". He's not. Not saying there isn't any chance that he will, but I am saying that he's definitely NOT the absolute favorite as you claim he is. you're just new to SC2 here are some of his tournaments taken from ggnet: Achievements: 3rd place Go4SC2 Cup #23 (BETA) 2nd Place StarCraft 2 World Cup (BETA) 2nd place ZOTAC Cup #13 (BETA) 1st place EU Craft Cup #9 (BETA) 100$ 1st place US Craft Cup #6 (BETA) 100$ 2nd place Go4SC2 Cup #14 (BETA) 2nd place ZOTAC Cup #10 (BETA) 1st place Craft Cup #5 (BETA) 50$ 1st place SC2TV Invite Tour #3 (BETA) 100$ 1st place SC2TV Invite Tour #2 (BETA) 100$ 1st place Go4SC2 Cup #1 (BETA) 100€ 1st place SC2.ru Cup #3 (BETA) 2nd place ZOTAC Cup #4 (BETA) 1st place ZOTAC Cup #3 (BETA) 100€ 1st place ZOTAC Cup #1 (BETA) 100€ There are also things like Razer Domination and the 1st sc2tv.ru invite that are missing off the top of my head. And that considering that he was banned from all tl.net and gg.net events. So, no, you're 100% wrong
Don't forget this
2nd place, 17173 Starcraft 2 World Cup
Where he lost to oGs.Cool in finals.
I would say one his biggest achievements in beta.
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On July 21 2010 21:07 Bash wrote:
HuK's play was absolute trash all-around, not just the thermal lance. It's a sad state if something like this can be considered top level play...
I agree
I know people make mistakes but in a tournament with this sort of cash prizes you would think they would be on their best.
No thermal lance upgrade, no gas on his natural expansion till WAY late, no anti air to deal with corruptors, one control group for his units, 9 gateways on 2 bases and the list can go on and on.
You compare Tester to Huk's play and there isn't even a contest... Even Huk's building placement is no where near what Tester puts out.
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I can't believe some of are you huk fan bois are defending not getting extended thermal lance... You people have obviously never made a single collosus in your lifetime.
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On July 21 2010 21:07 Bash wrote:
HuK's play was absolute trash all-around, not just the thermal lance. It's a sad state if something like this can be considered top level play...
qft in both games vs tlo and idra hes micro was terrible , i mean all units in ctrl1 srsly ?
Check tester btw , this is how a protoss should play imo , no thermo lance collossus is the worst unit in game considering the price,
No force fields vs idra in game 3 as well , no guardian shield no anything .
ps dimaga was great in beta 1 , in 2 hes underperforming for some reason .
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This is torture! upload Game 1 of WhiteRa v. Dimaga plurz!
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I think there's a little too much hating on DIMAGA's baneling play as "cheese". It was 100% scouted in game 2 against white-ra and white-ra didn't defend it. I think DIMAGA is noticing a trend in SC2 (the game is still very new) where people aren't defending their bases with enough units and over-extending. Not every strategy that isn't 100% macro is cheese (same thing with hating on HuK's 4 gate). It's perfectly OK to go all-in and win, for that matter it's perfectly ok to cheese, cheese involves risk. In game 3 it was similar to the baneling bust, but different in that he had roaches instead of banelings.
So that was not very well thought out, but the basic idea is people should not call putting pressure on an opponent early cheese. Think of it from a strategy point of view:
1) Dimaga gets a lot of units early
2) This should force white-ra to get some defense
3) Dimaga attacks and shows that white-ra did not have enough defenses
4) Dimaga wins
If step 3 had been Dimaga attacks and loses his forces, the game would basically be over, but if step 3 had been Dimaga sees too many defensive structures and pulls back the game still might be even at that point which is perfectly reasonable for a strategy game, there should be some tension between getting units and getting workers and defense. Due to many strong defenders such as Idra (who btw, is probably one of the best defenders in this tournament) we've grown accustomed to thin defenses being considered normal and standard, but you can't really rip on players for trying to put pressure on a strategy that tries to win later and forces them to defend.
Also worth noting:
If white-ra had build one or two cannons near his main nexus after that early pressure broke down many cannons, I think he might have won the game, the zergling run-by wouldn't have been able to attack the nexus or drones as easily. White-ra took a lot of risks by having thin unit-defense at that point in the game, if DIMAGA did not attack, that would have given White-ra an advantage.
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On July 21 2010 23:55 v3chr0 wrote:
This is torture! upload Game 1 of WhiteRa v. Dimaga plurz!
This >.<
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On July 21 2010 23:45 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
I can't believe some of are you huk fan bois are defending not getting extended thermal lance... You people have obviously never made a single collosus in your lifetime.
yeah I really don't see how this can be defended at all...like Day9 said its probably the most important unit upgrade in the game and def more important than having an extra collossus. Its the difference between collosus taking no hits in the back and being at the front and absorbing all the damage. Even if after corrupters were out it would've made no difference, an earlier push with thermal lance might've won Huk the game
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Dimaga is arguably the best player in Europe but to suggest he's a clear favourite in a tournament featuring the likes of Tester, ITR, WhiteRa and Idra is ridiculous.
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On July 22 2010 00:01 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 23:45 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
I can't believe some of are you huk fan bois are defending not getting extended thermal lance... You people have obviously never made a single collosus in your lifetime. yeah I really don't see how this can be defended at all...like Day9 said its probably the most important unit upgrade in the game and def more important than having an extra collossus. Its the difference between collosus taking no hits in the back and being at the front and absorbing all the damage. Even if after corrupters were out it would've made no difference, an earlier push with thermal lance might've won Huk the game
More important than zealot leg speed? I think Day9 would disagree as he has said that was the most important unit upgrade. 
But I do have to agree that Huk made a mistake not getting the extended thermal lance.
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My Fantasy League
+ Show Spoiler +Group Play Day 4 - July 21th 7PM PST
Group A: White-rA vs IntoTheRainbow - White-Ra and ITR are both vets, could go either way but ITR 2-1
Group B: Huk vs Tester - Well huk does play as much as Tester, I want Huk to win, but Tester 2-1
Group Play Day 5 - July 22th 7PM PST
Group A: QXC vs Dimaga - Dimaga is too good, and I am waiting to see qxc make some major wins. 2-1
Group B: Tester vs TheLittleOne. Tester 2-0, although I like TLO better now that he is terran
Group Play Day 6 - July 23th 7PM PST
Group A: Qxc vs IntoTheRainbow - same with Dimaga, ITR 2-0.
Group B: Idra vs TheLittleOne - IdrA was consistantly ranked 2-3 on NA server behind HuK, even though he mainly plays on Asia. Idra 2-0
Fantasy League Results (expected results in bold):
+ Show Spoiler +Group A:
1. IntoTheRainbow 3-0.
2. Dimaga 2-1
3. White-rA 1-2
4. QXC 1-2
Group B:
1. Tester 3-0
2. Idra 2-1
3. TheLittleOne 1-2
4. Huk 0-3
So the matchups will end up Dimaga vs. Tester and Idra vs. IntoTheRainbow.
Final Results
+ Show Spoiler +Semifinals:
Tester vs. Dimaga - Tester abused Idra's macro play, Dimaga abused Idra's macro play. Really close but Tester although i want Dimaga
IntoTheRainbow vs. Idra - IdrA, He is the fucking shit. He plays probably the most in the world.
Finals:
Tester vs. Idra - I think by the finals IdrA has adjusted to Tester's play probably. It will be epic. I want Idra to win so bad i cant say Tester will win so Idra
King of the Beta Tournament Winner: Tester.
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EPT
