EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 47
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Reafa
Australia4 Posts
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
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DeekZ
Australia235 Posts
On August 01 2012 01:15 Qibla wrote: Is anyone having any success past platinum with the terran builds? It's still my go-to build in Platinum, but it just flat out doesn't work sometimes, especially vs Diamond Zerg and Protoss. It still leaves you in a decent position economically, you just need to be better about doing damage, with drops and hatch/nexus snipes etc while getting the units you need to counter their army, like Viking/Ghost vs Toss. I think overall it's just really easy for Zergs to stop now and it forces us to open more aggressively, like Hellions into Banshee with good drone kills or you'll just end up way behind and eventually be over-run. | ||
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Craizyfists
United Kingdom19 Posts
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
On August 01 2012 13:44 DeekZ wrote: It's still my go-to build in Platinum, but it just flat out doesn't work sometimes, especially vs Diamond Zerg and Protoss. It still leaves you in a decent position economically, you just need to be better about doing damage, with drops and hatch/nexus snipes etc while getting the units you need to counter their army, like Viking/Ghost vs Toss. I think overall it's just really easy for Zergs to stop now and it forces us to open more aggressively, like Hellions into Banshee with good drone kills or you'll just end up way behind and eventually be over-run. I was Diamond, and I got demoted on 2 different accounts. It works fine vs T most of the time, but against P I feel I have to force the drops whether he scouted them or not, and even then, if he picks off a drop ship, even if I got some drone kills, he can still 1 A me. Against zerg, the timing just gets stomped, not even close most of the time. They have full 3 bases and ling bling with half the map spread with creep. I've been trying some hellioin banshee plays, but it's so hard to get good drone kills. I can get about 5-10 but don't have anything at home to defend. Best I can do is kill a few creep tumors, and that's about it. | ||
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Bobby G
Netherlands5 Posts
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
i like to know what you (filter) think about theCore layout http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878 great videos big thx | ||
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JWBS
England24 Posts
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Paria
France19 Posts
But I played against a diamond Z, and I felt that it was really really really late, since his 3 bases were already saturated when I pushed, and he already has a lot of units w/o sacrificing drone production | ||
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Bobby G
Netherlands5 Posts
Has season 9 started? 2012 season 3 it is. Had to do placement matches, because I stopped playing SC2 for quite a while. Trying Watching Terran vids myself atm to see how they work out  . | ||
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EtOHic
Germany9 Posts
On August 02 2012 08:04 Paria wrote: In low plat for the moment, the Z timing push often grants me a win. But I played against a diamond Z, and I felt that it was really really really late, since his 3 bases were already saturated when I pushed, and he already has a lot of units w/o sacrificing drone production Have you watched episode 6 yet (the ZvZ one)? at ~21:50 he talks about 3rd bases. Specifically he says take a 3rd when you see your opponent take his 3rd (you should have an OL watching for it). If you're playing diamond players often now, you really need to start being smart in your attacks. Filter talks about these things in the video, if you're struggling, re-watch it and make sure you're paying attention to the things he talks about in your games. | ||
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Paria
France19 Posts
On August 03 2012 17:20 EtOHic wrote: Have you watched episode 6 yet (the ZvZ one)? at ~21:50 he talks about 3rd bases. Specifically he says take a 3rd when you see your opponent take his 3rd (you should have an OL watching for it). If you're playing diamond players often now, you really need to start being smart in your attacks. Filter talks about these things in the video, if you're struggling, re-watch it and make sure you're paying attention to the things he talks about in your games. Well, I wasnt really clear, but I meant the timming push as Terran against Zerg, which is actually late, because I'm getting my third and his has been pretty fully saturated for 2 minutes. And I dont regularly play diamond, it was a friend of mine. Only played twice on ladder i think against a player higher than plat. | ||
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GreenRoar
Belgium5 Posts
Now I can just train towards very specific goals. It's been only a few days but I already notice much improvement in my macro game. (I still lose against cheeses :p ) So thanks for the awesome guide :D | ||
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PauseBreak
United States270 Posts
But most of you are correct, the timings against Diamonds are lucky if anything. Against Zerg, I skip the 2 additional rax and go straight into Seige Tanks. [And then continue rax production] Its a MUST if Zerg does a timing Roach/Bling/Ling attack. And hopefully my drop play does enough damage so that Zerg's late game is delayed. Its the huge issue right now. Zerg can easily take 3 bases, drone to hell, and skip the mid-game and just begin Late game. Against Protoss, I don't even know honestly. Its my worst match up for sure. Hell, I came here for advice. Against Colossus you need Vikings, and its like a 4:1 ratio. Its insane. And if they go templar tech, just pray to god they aren't smart enough to use observers, or you ain't sniping shit. And if they go both tech route, well, good luck because no one knows what to do. Terran is having a very rough time right now if you are not a professional gamer. ***Terran has little to no late game. ***Terran's mid game is decent. You can hit timings if you are precisely on AND if you can catch them with their pants down. Otherwise Zerg's creep is half cross map, no sneaking on that. And Protoss has figured out the early/mid game. It forces an all-in type of play or at least a critical hit. ***Terran's early game is gone. Now Blizzard wants and forces us to play macro games which Terran (unless you're pro) is struggling very hard agaist. Its a dark time for Terran, and its breaking souls hard. You can hear it in Filter's newest video. ;( Fliter is a great player and a great teacher. I hope he is able to suceed in all races and whatever he choses to do. I do, however, hope that Terran remains his "home so-to-speak. But you can hear it in his voice, if he isn't broke he's bowing and bending. ;( I switched from Protoss to Terran at the start of this season, sometimes I regret that. But, I think I'm going to stick it through. A lot of my friends who were Terran have made the switch. IDK /end | ||
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jinx1281255
United States45 Posts
Jinx | ||
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SOURD1ESEL
United States57 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
First of all some numbers. Usually you need 7 Vikings per Colossus, not more than 14 though. Just gas-wise you could build 4 Tanks instead of 7 Vikings (8 instead of 14). Tanks outrange Colossi even more than Vikings, so no problem in focussing Colossi with Tanks instead of with Vikings. Tanks don't become scrap metal after all Colossi are gone. The most important part with Tanks is positioning. You always want your tanks sieged up at a cliff or something to give less surface for Zealots. If possible have the Tanks positioned to fire at a choke that the Protoss units have to go through to get to you. Basically you don't want the opponents units to get to your tanks or just in small numbers at least. The next important part is the friendly fire splash. You will have to focus fire with your tanks all the time to keep them from shooting at Zealots that stand between your Bio. That also means you can't micro the Bio that much, but that's not too much of an issue, because... You just use your Bio to bait the Protoss into Tank range and then to guard the tanks from Zealots. That is sieging up in a good spot that should threaten the Protoss in some way (at a base or so... just something to force the Protoss to do something about it), then running forward with Bio and when he comes after you, run back to the tanks (really close to make the Colossi come into tank range aswell). Then start focus firing with tanks and leave Bio just there to guard the tanks. Tank focus fire prio targets are Colossi, HTs, Stalker. Chargelots will (hopefully) be melted by the Bio. As soon as those are done, you can actually leave the Tanks firing at what they like and start microing Bio again, e.g. to focus Immos. If there are HTs, you will certainly have to EMP/Snipe them still... preferably before they can Storm the tanks. This is also meant to be not as micro/multitasking intensive as MMMVG. You don't have to stutterstep while keeping Vikings alive but kill Colossi and EMP/Snipe. This one has a clear order. 1. siege tanks 2. run forward with Bio, bait opponent, run back to tanks (close), stim where needed 3. focus fire with tanks 4. when all zealots are gone, micro Bio as needed EMP/Snipe is somewhere inbetween 1 and 3, depending on when you see HTs and if you can cloak Ghosts and run up to snipe... so very situational. Just some random thoughts. Siegetank splash on a Colossus hits not just units around, but also below it, taking advantage of that pesky "walk over anything" ability. Protoss are used to being able to just run into a Terran army that will stutter step backwards. Running into tanks the same way is not that good of an idea. Upgrade Vehicle Weapons instead of Air Weapons. | ||
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FireFish
Denmark228 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On August 06 2012 18:10 BurningRanger wrote: @PauseBreak TvP: You could try Tanks instead of Vikings. I know I'm just Silver and Tanks are called a no-go in TvP, but please read it through before just calling it a sh*te idea. First of all some numbers. Usually you need 7 Vikings per Colossus, not more than 14 though. Just gas-wise you could build 4 Tanks instead of 7 Vikings (8 instead of 14). Tanks outrange Colossi even more than Vikings, so no problem in focussing Colossi with Tanks instead of with Vikings. Tanks don't become scrap metal after all Colossi are gone. The most important part with Tanks is positioning. You always want your tanks sieged up at a cliff or something to give less surface for Zealots. If possible have the Tanks positioned to fire at a choke that the Protoss units have to go through to get to you. Basically you don't want the opponents units to get to your tanks or just in small numbers at least. The next important part is the friendly fire splash. You will have to focus fire with your tanks all the time to keep them from shooting at Zealots that stand between your Bio. That also means you can't micro the Bio that much, but that's not too much of an issue, because... You just use your Bio to bait the Protoss into Tank range and then to guard the tanks from Zealots. That is sieging up in a good spot that should threaten the Protoss in some way (at a base or so... just something to force the Protoss to do something about it), then running forward with Bio and when he comes after you, run back to the tanks (really close to make the Colossi come into tank range aswell). Then start focus firing with tanks and leave Bio just there to guard the tanks. Tank focus fire prio targets are Colossi, HTs, Stalker. Chargelots will (hopefully) be melted by the Bio. As soon as those are done, you can actually leave the Tanks firing at what they like and start microing Bio again, e.g. to focus Immos. If there are HTs, you will certainly have to EMP/Snipe them still... preferably before they can Storm the tanks. This is also meant to be not as micro/multitasking intensive as MMMVG. You don't have to stutterstep while keeping Vikings alive but kill Colossi and EMP/Snipe. This one has a clear order. 1. siege tanks 2. run forward with Bio, bait opponent, run back to tanks (close), stim where needed 3. focus fire with tanks 4. when all zealots are gone, micro Bio as needed EMP/Snipe is somewhere inbetween 1 and 3, depending on when you see HTs and if you can cloak Ghosts and run up to snipe... so very situational. Just some random thoughts. Siegetank splash on a Colossus hits not just units around, but also below it, taking advantage of that pesky "walk over anything" ability. Protoss are used to being able to just run into a Terran army that will stutter step backwards. Running into tanks the same way is not that good of an idea. Upgrade Vehicle Weapons instead of Air Weapons. 7 vikings per collosus :O I'm sorry but that's just wrong. You can easily have just 3 per collosus and be fine. The reason tanks aren't used is because they are a lot less mobile than bio and if you get caught unsieged you kind of just die. Also it's probably more micro intensive because if your tanks starts shooting the zealots a lot of your marines will get really damaged. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On August 06 2012 20:56 kollin wrote: 7 vikings per collosus :O I'm sorry but that's just wrong. You can easily have just 3 per collosus and be fine. The reason tanks aren't used is because they are a lot less mobile than bio and if you get caught unsieged you kind of just die. Also it's probably more micro intensive because if your tanks starts shooting the zealots a lot of your marines will get really damaged. 7 Vikings per Colossus was the last number I heard. But as said, not more than 14, so actually it's 7 per Colo just for the first 2 Colos and then you have enough to 1 shot them already. Having just 3 for 1 Colossus would take too long to take it down... your bio has taken severe damage by then. Mobility: Tanks move exactly at the same speed as bio (2.25). Stimmed bio is faster, but you don't move your army around stimmed, do you? And in a fight tanks don't move, they're sieged. As already said, you HAVE TO micro aka focus fire with the tanks instead of the bio to prevent the tanks from shooting into the bio. Again you do not move the marines around at this point. You leave them standing in front of your tanks to block the Zealots from getting to the tanks. Getting caught unsieged is bad, yes. You should scout very well, Scan where the Protoss army is and stuff. Just unsiege when you're sure the P army isn't close. | ||
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