EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 49
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grouperfish
Canada22 Posts
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hequ
Finland1 Post
I just want to say that your teaching was easy to understand for me and after that it was easy to change the builds the way I like to play, but still getting the strong economy and to win games. So I want to say Thank You, Filter. You made this game fun, again.  | ||
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krew406
United States115 Posts
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varconis
1 Post
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Borgbilly
United States21 Posts
1. I'm dying to almost every all-in / pre-10 minute timing attack there is. 4 gate? Dead. Marine/Tank push? Dead. DT's? Dead. It just feels like the style of play you are promoting is incredibly flimsy until stim/medivacs/siege mode finishes. 2. How should I be playing TvT if I don't win with my timing attack? This is the matchup I struggle most with getting my push held off (it's pretty easy for the opponent to siege a couple of tanks at his nat and completely deny a push up the ramp). I've been doing a fairly decent job of out macroing my opponents and taking my third, despite not making any concerted effort yet to start implementing the plat level benchmarks in my play. The big problem is, how do I win if he's completely turtled up inside his main/nat? You can't really force an army trade without diving his siege tank line (suicidal if he's got like 8+ tanks sieged up at his nat), on the main/nat combo he has so little ground to cover that drops aren't that effective. Most of my mid-late game TvT's feel like I get this huge army advantage that would win me the game in any other MU but I just throw it away. | ||
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azap20
Turkey3 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:48 Borgbilly wrote: 1. I'm dying to almost every all-in / pre-10 minute timing attack there is. 4 gate? Dead. Marine/Tank push? Dead. DT's? Dead. It just feels like the style of play you are promoting is incredibly flimsy until stim/medivacs/siege mode finishes. From what I see in the guide, promoting one strategy over another has never been the core of this guide. It is just "another" build suggested. Whole point of the guide is to encourage producing SCVs constantly and keeping your BO timings in place, no matter which BO you use. My suggestion for your first question is: If you find that BO given in guide too greedy, just apply same ideas to a more safe build. Also, I certainly agree that all-in builds are more common in lower leagues(Although less effective). So it might be wiser to use a safer build until you get higher. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:48 Borgbilly wrote:The big problem is, how do I win if he's completely turtled up inside his main/nat? What I usually do is sieging up in a spot that threatens his base, but outside of his tankrange. I think on (almost) all maps there are cliffs or just small spaces at different spots around the main/nat. Those are mostly not covered by sieged tanks, so you can siege up on the outside and use a medivac as spotter. You can even elevator some marines into the base and start being a pain. You basically force him to unsiege his tanks at his favoured spot and come to your favoured spot, where you're sieged up already. He has to do something or you slowly level his base. Even if he sieges up in his base so you can't get any further into it, you have a foot in the door and he can't move out to attack your base, while you can expand. You should check for additional expansions of him though. This is not a full contain, but something like an indirect semi-contain.  This also works against Protoss and Zerg somehow (both have different ways of reacting to it certainly). | ||
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Paria
France19 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:48 Borgbilly wrote: 2. How should I be playing TvT if I don't win with my timing attack? This is the matchup I struggle most with getting my push held off (it's pretty easy for the opponent to siege a couple of tanks at his nat and completely deny a push up the ramp). I've been doing a fairly decent job of out macroing my opponents and taking my third, despite not making any concerted effort yet to start implementing the plat level benchmarks in my play. The big problem is, how do I win if he's completely turtled up inside his main/nat? You can't really force an army trade without diving his siege tank line (suicidal if he's got like 8+ tanks sieged up at his nat), on the main/nat combo he has so little ground to cover that drops aren't that effective. Most of my mid-late game TvT's feel like I get this huge army advantage that would win me the game in any other MU but I just throw it away. Check out the day9 dailies about TvTs, he's explaining it really well. The only one I've got in mind is the one about Thorzain's TvT (in January I think), but there must have been others, many others. | ||
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Scorp_Wild
United States9 Posts
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:48 Borgbilly wrote: Hey, I first off want to thank you for this video series. I went from low silver to high gold thanks to your specific benchmarks. I'm starting to have problems as I'm pushing into the high gold/low plat MMR range. I'm still currently using the gold benchmarks, but I'm attempting to implement the elements of your scouting video into my play. 1. I'm dying to almost every all-in / pre-10 minute timing attack there is. 4 gate? Dead. Marine/Tank push? Dead. DT's? Dead. It just feels like the style of play you are promoting is incredibly flimsy until stim/medivacs/siege mode finishes. 2. How should I be playing TvT if I don't win with my timing attack? This is the matchup I struggle most with getting my push held off (it's pretty easy for the opponent to siege a couple of tanks at his nat and completely deny a push up the ramp). I've been doing a fairly decent job of out macroing my opponents and taking my third, despite not making any concerted effort yet to start implementing the plat level benchmarks in my play. The big problem is, how do I win if he's completely turtled up inside his main/nat? You can't really force an army trade without diving his siege tank line (suicidal if he's got like 8+ tanks sieged up at his nat), on the main/nat combo he has so little ground to cover that drops aren't that effective. Most of my mid-late game TvT's feel like I get this huge army advantage that would win me the game in any other MU but I just throw it away. It's pretty much all the problems i have. I'm trying some solutions without changing too much the build. But i'm struggling. 1. 4 gate variations - Scouting + More bunkers. Scouting - Depending on the map, it's really hard to scout. A really good 4gate will deny your scouting with the Zealot and the Stalker. You'll have to mantain your scouting SCV alive or avoid the Xelnaga watch tower to get to the main again after your first scouting SCV (some maps you just can't avoid the Xelnaga Towers like Shakuras) =/. If all the attempts of scouting fail don't assume that the 4gate isn't coming. Bunkers - Make at least 3 of them and near your nat expansion if possible. (This will make the SCV repair more easily). Don't be afraid to throw even more. Repair - Absolute necessary. You can even hotkey SCV them to make it easy and activate auto-repair. But it's sad, that Sentrys can prevent repair in one or 2 bunkers. (More thant that shouldn't happen, too much gas necessary to get more sentrys, and more sentries will mean less DPS to the 4gate) - Make your 2nd and three rax on your natural - To short the Travel distance of your reinforcments. - Don't fall behind on macro - Constant Marine and SCV production. Don't delay your tech too much. If you don't lose too much until your medivacs and stim get out, you'll be absolute fine. You just need to survive until them. Don't be afraid to spam SCVs and Marines on the queues if you think you'll be too busy microing. Don't get supply blocked. You can change something here and there in the build to make de defense more easy. Delay one or two addons (to get more marines in time, but don't delay stim), maybe delay the second gas to squeeze one more rax. And other shit, but i don't recommend, i don't know this build so well. - Don't let them bypass your defenses. They can do it with the warprism (it's a pain in the ass, but delays the 4gate considerably). Or just walking through the bunkers if there are gaps between your bunkers/buildings. DT's: Save scans. Move your SCVs, litf your orbitals if they are losing too much HP. Get turrets when possible. One base DT is somewhat easy to defend. Two base DT that is the problem, it's hard to see them coming. 2. Keep the turtle in his natural. Deny his third. Spam expansion over the map. Get 4353948587984 raxes. Don't let them hide ninja expansions. Try droping anyway. Caught them unsieged. Don't waste all your army forcing a bad engagement. Don't lose the upgrade race. The rest is practice. | ||
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ZeroStarCraft2
Malaysia154 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On August 16 2012 11:11 Herect wrote: - Don't let them bypass your defenses. They can do it with the warprism (it's a pain in the ass, but delays the 4gate considerably). Or just walking through the bunkers if there are gaps between your bunkers/buildings. DT's: Save scans. Move your SCVs, litf your orbitals if they are losing too much HP. Get turrets when possible. One base DT is somewhat easy to defend. Two base DT that is the problem, it's hard to see them coming. Very good tips. I would just like to comment these both. If you have several bunkers, you don't have to be afraid of enemy units walking inbetween them. The units in the bunkers will shred them to pieces. The only thing important is that the bunkers stay alive. Just to avoid some misunderstanding, the gaps between the bunkers are good, because more SCVs can repair then. For the DTs you can try to squeeze in an e-bay (you will need it anyways at some point) and a missile turret at the natural choke before 6:00-6:30 and no one base DT will get into your base. Just DT drop with Warpprism is possible then, but that comes a lot later again. A thing I do lately against Protoss is getting a very early Ghost Academy on the 1RaxFE + 2 Raxes, and building Marines and Ghosts only. A well placed EMP can stop a 4-gate immediately, because 1) it drops the shields of the Protoss units, making them die a lot faster and 2) it drains the Sentry energy very much, so he can't forcefield all around your bunkers anymore and you can repair. A sideeffect is, you can reveal DTs with EMP which can mean life or death when you have no turrets up in time and are out of scan energy. I know this delays Medivacs somewhat, but 1 Medivac can not heal so much to make up for the damage of a nicely placed EMP. | ||
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IMlemon
Lithuania296 Posts
thank you so much for making these videos. I was one of those guys that played ~30 ladder games in total doing random stuff without any real direction, losing or winning but having no idea why. After watching your guides game feels much more fun and I can measure my progress very clearly via benchmarks you provided. My results also improved tremendously, I went from being 50-50 against gold players to going 20-5 against mostly platinum guys. | ||
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MChrome
Netherlands201 Posts
Guess when i started watching Filter's videos ;p | ||
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Enjoied
Canada5 Posts
The main advantages I see are, as you pointed out, the decisions that must be made as gas is mined. What upgrades do I need and what do I have to give up getting it. The next advantage I see is as a spectator, keeping track of where gas is spent and in the early game, seeing what each 100 gas is used for as it builds in the stockpile. On the other hand, In my opinion, limiting the gas this much will have a large effect of scouting and countering. I fear it may cause your opponent to turtle and save their precious gas until they determine what you are spending your gas on. Once he knows what you have committed to, he can counter accordingly. E.g. A terran is going marine tank, and too have enough tanks he must forgo medivacs and combat shield. If his opponent turtles, saves gas and then scouts tanks, he will counter appropriately leaving the terran in a tough spot. Does he continue producing poorly defended tanks OR does he switch and be stuck with too few medivacs and too few tanks. The other alternative is that both players turtle in hopes to counter their opponent. Now they both stockpile enough gas to completely tech and we end with the same, albeit longer, game as we have now. I like the idea of limiting tech but am not experienced enough to really know all the effects if may have. I think it is a great idea though and you should continue thinking about it and working with it. Keep up the good work Filter. | ||
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
I had a tvz on antiga. The problems I'm having is; At ~11 minutes I start banking too many minerals I'm not being aggressive enough Need to drop more Need to scout army comp Bad macro overall I'm using filterSC guides. http://drop.sc/243849 Thanks in advance <3 | ||
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Jermman
Canada174 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:29 9-BiT wrote: I posted this in the strat section as well, but figured I could get some more help here. I had a tvz on antiga. The problems I'm having is; At ~11 minutes I start banking too many minerals I'm not being aggressive enough Need to drop more Need to scout army comp Bad macro overall I'm using filterSC guides. http://drop.sc/243849 Thanks in advance <3 It didnt make sense to make a thread for this, and it doesnt make sense to post it now. You've identified your own problems.. | ||
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nyccine
United States12 Posts
On August 30 2012 10:26 Jermman wrote: It didnt make sense to make a thread for this, and it doesnt make sense to post it now. You've identified your own problems.. It seriously can't be a mystery to you why he would ask the question, as it should be painfully obvious he doesn't know how to do these things he's asking for help with. How about actually giving him some tips instead of just telling him he's an idiot? | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:29 9-BiT wrote: I posted this in the strat section as well, but figured I could get some more help here. I had a tvz on antiga. The problems I'm having is; At ~11 minutes I start banking too many minerals I'm not being aggressive enough Need to drop more Need to scout army comp Bad macro overall I'm using filterSC guides. http://drop.sc/243849 Thanks in advance <3 As noone replied in a constructive way yet... Sorry, can't watch the replay atm, so just some general stuff. Bad macro overall -> That's what this guide is teaching you, so just go on using it and you'll get better. I'm not being aggressive enough, Need to drop more, Need to scout army comp -> Very much depends on your level of play. But then, don't let the opponent's army comp dictate your army comp too much. Have a clear plan in mind, what YOU want to have and follow that. If you don't know when to attack, try the 10:00 minute mark as in the guide. Apart from that, Terrans live from attacking in creative ways. Dropping is just one way. Head on is not always the best method. Get yourself favourable positions (e.g. where you can set up good concaves, if you're bio heavy, or where your Tanks are a threat, but are hard to reach for him, if you have those). At ~11 minutes I start banking too many minerals -> If you follow the guide with the 10:00 minute attack, just build like 4 Raxes or so right before move out or maybe when your units are on the way. Also add several depots to not get supply blocked during the attack. Another idea is taking the third while moving out, so it's up and running when the fight is over. GL & HF | ||
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Elendur
Canada43 Posts
Great series and has improved my macro tremendously. Can't wait for more zerg videos. Oh, and I also realized I was subscribed but didn't "like" all of your videos on youtube so I went back and did each of them individually because I am so greatfull... | ||
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