[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 51
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Enjoied
Canada5 Posts
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Enjoied
Canada5 Posts
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
why do you think that nestea is good in sc2? he has awful mechanics compared to drg but is still just as/if not more successful. | ||
Blindvision
1 Post
TLDR. Add marine benchmark to first and second video IMO. | ||
ThemBones
Denmark10 Posts
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VolvicCH
Spain21 Posts
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
I was a high silver/low gold player when I stopped out of frustration and a lot of losses, so I want to start implementing part 2: building groups. However, here's where I am on my benchmarks at 10 minutes on my second try. 1) 49 workers (first try: 48) 2) 3:43 natural taken. (first try: 4:01) Is this good enough? Or is 50 supposed to be the lowest acceptable number? I know you had 52 once... (btw if anyone can answer this question please feel free I'm sure filter is a busy man) | ||
kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:00 Autofire2 wrote: Thanks man, i updated and loaded up SC2 after many many months. It just seemed way more fun to be good at TF2 consistently than play against a system that will ALWAYS beat me. But if I can focus on these goals that's cool I was a high silver/low gold player when I stopped out of frustration and a lot of losses, so I want to start implementing part 2: building groups. However, here's where I am on my benchmarks at 10 minutes on my second try. 1) 49 workers (first try: 48) 2) 3:43 natural taken. (first try: 4:01) Is this good enough? Or is 50 supposed to be the lowest acceptable number? I know you had 52 once... (btw if anyone can answer this question please feel free I'm sure filter is a busy man) No that's not alright. The benchmarks are benchmarks for a reason, they're the bare minimum of what you should be getting. An important lesson in Starcraft is chances are no part of your play is good enough. | ||
Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
Second question: I want to polish up mechanics before hitting that terrifying ladder again. Once I hit the 50 and the 3:45 (that one isn't super hard), is that good enough to move on to lessons of the next 2 videos? Or should I do it 3 times in a row? 4 times out of 5? Any benchmarks for that? Thanks for the kick in the ass kollin ![]() | ||
kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:34 Autofire2 wrote: Heh ok. Fair enough. It was probably this kind of impossible "get good quick" thinking that led to me quitting in frustration the first time. Second question: I want to polish up mechanics before hitting that terrifying ladder again. Once I hit the 50 and the 3:45 (that one isn't super hard), is that good enough to move on to lessons of the next 2 videos? Or should I do it 3 times in a row? 4 times out of 5? Any benchmarks for that? Thanks for the kick in the ass kollin ![]() No problem for that, I of all people know about getting over confident in my abilities ^^ As for the benchmarks, move on as soon as you feel comfortable hitting them. So if you feel like you were making those scv's automatically then it's pretty safe to move on. After all if you get ahead of yourself you can always take a step back and work on earlier videos. | ||
Namelless
Germany38 Posts
i am high silver/low gold on EU hitting the benchmarks perfectly of the building groups video at gold level in EU is not enough to win more than 50-60% of your games if you dont have godlike micro (or i dont know what you should know or able to do that it would be enough) you really need the platinum stuff, or at least a minimum of "scouting..."-video and interpreting the information and all of the "adding a third..."-video informations, for crushing the low gold level (i think for crushing all up to high gold on EU you really need all of the platinum content to do and to understand why and what you do) and with this style of play i am not able to win against zerg often enaugh (TvP 80%, TvT 67%, TvZ 52% at all (including 25% of the games without filterscstyle) -i die mostly to gold level "banelingbusts" (does not matter if 1 base or 2 base, but 2 base is even a lot harder) but maybe it is doable if i would have just a quite good splittingmicro (ofc much better than the micro, the zerg needs) a lot of bunkers (3-4) and a wall of depots next to the bunkers just does not help too (only sometimes, and its very hard for me to scout it fast enough too) i've seen in one PLATINUMreplay that filtersc died to a banelingbust too (so a banelingbust is maybe a conterstrat in TvZ against our 1rax-fe followed by 10min MMM timing push), so thats maybe not the best way to handle with zerg, or/but maybe we just have just to accept the fact that we lose a lot of games against zerg up to he shows us other ways to play against zerg (hope he is showing us a really good tvz style against the banelingbust and the massroaches in his adding build videos, that is not even much more microintense than the zerg both zergstyles) -to "mass roaches only" (just when my army is going to attack opponent, he comes out with 100-150 supply 2base speedroaches, its just impossible to hold it if you cant get back to your ramp fast enough, if the zerg has a minimum of micro, its mostly impossible to hold it while still standing on ramp (even if i have 3 or 4 bunkers and a wall of depots, cause i scouted a lot of gas, but no lair) seems that the zerg just does not have to have as good unitcontrol and macro like i have to have to win against this style of play/bo last but not least, if the terran makes fast thors-allin, i could easily write gg if i see them passing the watchtower too so do you have any kind of idea what i make wrong, what i should have to do to hold such kind of a allin? dont even know what would be the best to do and did not found a replay of you when a terran made this p.s. i've heard a lot of times that EU skilllevel is comparable with NA skilllevel but just one league lower in EU, dont know if thats correct, but maybe a few people, who tried both servers with a couple of games and different skills, could tell us if it is correct or not, would be very interested in p.p.s. it would be so awful, if you filtersc would take you 2 minutes to read and quickly answer my post ![]() ![]() p.p.p.s. i LOVE you and your videos, its really the best content i have seen for a computergame ever, and ive gone from mid-bronze-level to low-gold-level in just about 2 weeks and 50 games, the game makes so amazingly more fun to play now and im even MUCH more motivated to play ladder p.p.p.p.s. but i still want to give you a tip: match making rating tool (sc2gears-plugin) it is just terrible how you have to look for the ladderpoints and division rank of your opponents to estimate their skill like shown here: ladder-explanation of excalibur theese two things doesn't fit to the real "skill" it is just how active you are, blizzard wants to flash us with good numbers for motivating us mfg Namelless (i am sorry for my bad english, still trying to get better (i did a lot with trying to understand your videos too, thanks for this too ![]() | ||
Iranon
United States983 Posts
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
![]() Edit: adressed comment to wrong person lol | ||
BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:41 Namelless wrote: + Show Spoiler + hio i am high silver/low gold on EU hitting the benchmarks perfectly of the building groups video at gold level in EU is not enough to win more than 50-60% of your games if you dont have godlike micro (or i dont know what you should know or able to do that it would be enough) you really need the platinum stuff, or at least a minimum of "scouting..."-video and interpreting the information and all of the "adding a third..."-video informations, for crushing the low gold level (i think for crushing all up to high gold on EU you really need all of the platinum content to do and to understand why and what you do) and with this style of play i am not able to win against zerg often enaugh (TvP 80%, TvT 67%, TvZ 52% at all (including 25% of the games without filterscstyle) -i die mostly to gold level "banelingbusts" (does not matter if 1 base or 2 base, but 2 base is even a lot harder) but maybe it is doable if i would have just a quite good splittingmicro (ofc much better than the micro, the zerg needs) a lot of bunkers (3-4) and a wall of depots next to the bunkers just does not help too (only sometimes, and its very hard for me to scout it fast enough too) i've seen in one PLATINUMreplay that filtersc died to a banelingbust too (so a banelingbust is maybe a conterstrat in TvZ against our 1rax-fe followed by 10min MMM timing push), so thats maybe not the best way to handle with zerg, or/but maybe we just have just to accept the fact that we lose a lot of games against zerg up to he shows us other ways to play against zerg (hope he is showing us a really good tvz style against the banelingbust and the massroaches in his adding build videos, that is not even much more microintense than the zerg both zergstyles) -to "mass roaches only" (just when my army is going to attack opponent, he comes out with 100-150 supply 2base speedroaches, its just impossible to hold it if you cant get back to your ramp fast enough, if the zerg has a minimum of micro, its mostly impossible to hold it while still standing on ramp (even if i have 3 or 4 bunkers and a wall of depots, cause i scouted a lot of gas, but no lair) seems that the zerg just does not have to have as good unitcontrol and macro like i have to have to win against this style of play/bo last but not least, if the terran makes fast thors-allin, i could easily write gg if i see them passing the watchtower too so do you have any kind of idea what i make wrong, what i should have to do to hold such kind of a allin? dont even know what would be the best to do and did not found a replay of you when a terran made this p.s. i've heard a lot of times that EU skilllevel is comparable with NA skilllevel but just one league lower in EU, dont know if thats correct, but maybe a few people, who tried both servers with a couple of games and different skills, could tell us if it is correct or not, would be very interested in p.p.s. it would be so awful, if you filtersc would take you 2 minutes to read and quickly answer my post ![]() ![]() p.p.p.s. i LOVE you and your videos, its really the best content i have seen for a computergame ever, and ive gone from mid-bronze-level to low-gold-level in just about 2 weeks and 50 games, the game makes so amazingly more fun to play now and im even MUCH more motivated to play ladder p.p.p.p.s. but i still want to give you a tip: match making rating tool (sc2gears-plugin) it is just terrible how you have to look for the ladderpoints and division rank of your opponents to estimate their skill like shown here: ladder-explanation of excalibur theese two things doesn't fit to the real "skill" it is just how active you are, blizzard wants to flash us with good numbers for motivating us mfg Namelless (i am sorry for my bad english, still trying to get better (i did a lot with trying to understand your videos too, thanks for this too ![]() You know, you don't have to follow the Build into MMM, if you think it doesn't work that well. As long as you keep to the Expo at 3:45, 50 SCVs and about 100 supply at 10:00 you should be quite fine. I've altered it quite a bit for myself, because my hands are too slow for MMM it seems. For TvZ for example after the Expo CC at 3:45 i take double-gas, then build a bunker and then build 2 Faxes as soon as I have the gas going for Tanks and Hellions. A bit later I add the Starport for some Banshees. I still get the 3:45 Expansion, 50 SCVs and about 100 supply at 10:00 (or atleast I try to, but that's my bad mechanics not the build's fault ![]() For TvT, instead of getting early Stim/Combat Shield or Techlab on Rax at all, I rather rush for Siegetanks too. So after the 3:45 Expo I build a 2nd Rax, double gas and Bunker as normal. But then, when the gas is there, add a Fax with TL and a Starport. You get kind of a no-upgrade (except siege) Marine/Tank/Medivac mix first and just then start all the bio-upgrades.Reason behind this is that sieged Tanks deal so well with bio and you have a better chance of defending early Siegetank pushes/all-ins of the opponent (it may have the potential to hold that described Thor all-in even). Just for TvP I'm rather clueless still (remember: MMM is too much micro for my slow hands). So TL;DR: You don't have to play Filter's builds to the tee as long as you keep to the bronze benchmarks. Being creative and able to come up with new ideas and alter your builds as needed, while keeping up good mechanics, is actually the goal of this guide. | ||
Bryan73
2 Posts
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:41 Namelless wrote: hio i am high silver/low gold on EU hitting the benchmarks perfectly of the building groups video at gold level in EU is not enough to win more than 50-60% of your games if you dont have godlike micro (or i dont know what you should know or able to do that it would be enough) you really need the platinum stuff, or at least a minimum of "scouting..."-video and interpreting the information and all of the "adding a third..."-video informations, for crushing the low gold level (i think for crushing all up to high gold on EU you really need all of the platinum content to do and to understand why and what you do) and with this style of play i am not able to win against zerg often enaugh (TvP 80%, TvT 67%, TvZ 52% at all (including 25% of the games without filterscstyle) -i die mostly to gold level "banelingbusts" (does not matter if 1 base or 2 base, but 2 base is even a lot harder) but maybe it is doable if i would have just a quite good splittingmicro (ofc much better than the micro, the zerg needs) a lot of bunkers (3-4) and a wall of depots next to the bunkers just does not help too (only sometimes, and its very hard for me to scout it fast enough too) i've seen in one PLATINUMreplay that filtersc died to a banelingbust too (so a banelingbust is maybe a conterstrat in TvZ against our 1rax-fe followed by 10min MMM timing push), so thats maybe not the best way to handle with zerg, or/but maybe we just have just to accept the fact that we lose a lot of games against zerg up to he shows us other ways to play against zerg (hope he is showing us a really good tvz style against the banelingbust and the massroaches in his adding build videos, that is not even much more microintense than the zerg both zergstyles) -to "mass roaches only" (just when my army is going to attack opponent, he comes out with 100-150 supply 2base speedroaches, its just impossible to hold it if you cant get back to your ramp fast enough, if the zerg has a minimum of micro, its mostly impossible to hold it while still standing on ramp (even if i have 3 or 4 bunkers and a wall of depots, cause i scouted a lot of gas, but no lair) seems that the zerg just does not have to have as good unitcontrol and macro like i have to have to win against this style of play/bo last but not least, if the terran makes fast thors-allin, i could easily write gg if i see them passing the watchtower too so do you have any kind of idea what i make wrong, what i should have to do to hold such kind of a allin? dont even know what would be the best to do and did not found a replay of you when a terran made this p.s. i've heard a lot of times that EU skilllevel is comparable with NA skilllevel but just one league lower in EU, dont know if thats correct, but maybe a few people, who tried both servers with a couple of games and different skills, could tell us if it is correct or not, would be very interested in p.p.s. it would be so awful, if you filtersc would take you 2 minutes to read and quickly answer my post ![]() ![]() p.p.p.s. i LOVE you and your videos, its really the best content i have seen for a computergame ever, and ive gone from mid-bronze-level to low-gold-level in just about 2 weeks and 50 games, the game makes so amazingly more fun to play now and im even MUCH more motivated to play ladder p.p.p.p.s. but i still want to give you a tip: match making rating tool (sc2gears-plugin) it is just terrible how you have to look for the ladderpoints and division rank of your opponents to estimate their skill like shown here: ladder-explanation of excalibur theese two things doesn't fit to the real "skill" it is just how active you are, blizzard wants to flash us with good numbers for motivating us mfg Namelless (i am sorry for my bad english, still trying to get better (i did a lot with trying to understand your videos too, thanks for this too ![]() It's the same in NA too. The "build" stops working in high silver/low gold, but the concepts do not. Start adding in the platinum macro stuff (adding additional production and taking a 3rd) while doing a little bit of scouting. Just remember that macro comes first. Also, you are going to have to start microing now, people have just gotten better overall. | ||
Namelless
Germany38 Posts
On September 07 2012 19:51 BurningRanger wrote: + Show Spoiler + You know, you don't have to follow the Build into MMM, if you think it doesn't work that well. As long as you keep to the Expo at 3:45, 50 SCVs and about 100 supply at 10:00 you should be quite fine. I've altered it quite a bit for myself, because my hands are too slow for MMM it seems. For TvZ for example after the Expo CC at 3:45 i take double-gas, then build a bunker and then build 2 Faxes as soon as I have the gas going for Tanks and Hellions. A bit later I add the Starport for some Banshees. I still get the 3:45 Expansion, 50 SCVs and about 100 supply at 10:00 (or atleast I try to, but that's my bad mechanics not the build's fault ![]() For TvT, instead of getting early Stim/Combat Shield or Techlab on Rax at all, I rather rush for Siegetanks too. So after the 3:45 Expo I build a 2nd Rax, double gas and Bunker as normal. But then, when the gas is there, add a Fax with TL and a Starport. You get kind of a no-upgrade (except siege) Marine/Tank/Medivac mix first and just then start all the bio-upgrades.Reason behind this is that sieged Tanks deal so well with bio and you have a better chance of defending early Siegetank pushes/all-ins of the opponent (it may have the potential to hold that described Thor all-in even). Just for TvP I'm rather clueless still (remember: MMM is too much micro for my slow hands). So TL;DR: You don't have to play Filter's builds to the tee as long as you keep to the bronze benchmarks. Being creative and able to come up with new ideas and alter your builds as needed, while keeping up good mechanics, is actually the goal of this guide. thats looks like a very cool variaton, especially for TvZ because there are my biggest problems as said before, i will try this a few times at custom and later at ladder, but the question i have to this variaton is the following: if i did understand you right, you still get stim and a combination of 2rax-reactor, 1rax-techlab MMM, and add the mech not before you have enough gas to build it without losing sight of your MMM production (dont know if this was correct english) :/ so i think this will be at something around 6-9 minutes? but i think when adding mech the baneling-bust is already done, so it only counters to the mass roach timing push (where tanks/hellions are not the best conter too, are they?) but it seems to me that it won't take advantage of baneling busts? or do you recommend to add a few hellions while skipping some reactor-marine rounds, out of your 1 factory with no addons, when it is built(the factory)? please ask if my english is too bad to understand it p.s. it seems quite difficulty to handling with quotes and spoiler's the same time :D edit: @awwnuts07 i wrote that i was adding the stuff you mentioned already -_- (maybe it was not understandable because of my bad english, but seems that you only read half of the post) :p so the questions are still alive and not answered with your post ![]() but it seems that burning ranger's ideas are quite nice, maybe you could read his post and my answer to it before continue answering my question (so you dont have to read my first really too long post) p.s. did not know how to explain the specific questions in a shorter way ![]() | ||
JWBS
England24 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:34 Autofire2 wrote: Heh ok. Fair enough. It was probably this kind of impossible "get good quick" thinking that led to me quitting in frustration the first time. Second question: I want to polish up mechanics before hitting that terrifying ladder again. Once I hit the 50 and the 3:45 (that one isn't super hard), is that good enough to move on to lessons of the next 2 videos? Or should I do it 3 times in a row? 4 times out of 5? Any benchmarks for that? Thanks for the kick in the ass kollin ![]() Nah man ignore that guy 49 benchmarks is alright. I don't think he knows what alright means. You can't be perfect every time can you? What, you going to gg out every time you hit 10.00 in ladder and you've only got 48 scvs? This kind of thinking will get you nowhere (not that hypothetical I just put forward, but the notion that it all hinges on this mechanical playstyle). If that were the case we could all be in masters by hitting the benchmarks couldn't we? It's nothing like as simple. The 50 benchmark is an ideal standard at which your performance can be judged. If 52 is optimal and 50 is ideal then 49 is most certainly better than "alright". | ||
kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 08 2012 05:09 JWBS wrote: Nah man ignore that guy 49 benchmarks is alright. I don't think he knows what alright means. You can't be perfect every time can you? What, you going to gg out every time you hit 10.00 in ladder and you've only got 48 scvs? This kind of thinking will get you nowhere (not that hypothetical I just put forward, but the notion that it all hinges on this mechanical playstyle). If that were the case we could all be in masters by hitting the benchmarks couldn't we? It's nothing like as simple. The 50 benchmark is an ideal standard at which your performance can be judged. If 52 is optimal and 50 is ideal then 49 is most certainly better than "alright". 50 is not perfect. Hell it's not even ideal. Generally 50 is the bare bare minimum of good macro. And yes if you hit these benchmarks with a build that isn't the one filter showed, yes chances are you will get masters just because you have so much more stuff than your opponent. | ||
JWBS
England24 Posts
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